Triang Hornby Caledonian Set cancelled

[JohnR]

It seems they havnt got the tools for this any more...

 

[Steamport Southport]

I wonder whether it's the coaches as they very recently did the GWR LOTI in the Victorian set. So they've still got the chassis.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/tri-ang-railways-rewind-rs48-victorian-train-set-r1284m

 

Time for a new one I reckon. It would go well with the green T9....

 

Sorry, can't find credit. Will add if I can.

 

Jason

[Legend]

Yes also got the notification . Thats a shame . Was looking forward to a detailed livery . Oh well . If they were doing another Caley I'd suggest something else like a Cardean or Dunalastair . The 123 was really a one off 

 

Just nipped in and secured one off of eBay!

Edited May 3, 2023 by Legend

[MikeParkin65]

21 minutes ago, Legend said:

Yes also got the notification . Thats a shame . Was looking forward to a detailed livery . Oh well . If they were doing another Caley I'd suggest something else like a Cardean or Dunalastair . The 123 was really a one off 

Reckon 123 would be a better commercial proposition as @Steamport Southport says it has transition era uses which expands the potential market considerably with 120 already produced, 3440 previously available and HR 103 on the horizon. Could possibly get a Dunalastair out of the same tooling suite to?

[Steamport Southport]

10 minutes ago, Legend said:

Yes also got the notification . Thats a shame . Was looking forward to a detailed livery . Oh well . If they were doing another Caley I'd suggest something else like a Cardean or Dunalastair . The 123 was really a one off 

 

It was in a different form in CR days, it's purely post 1923, so the CR aspect is irrelevant apart from the livery.

 

It ran railtours on the Southern Region, Western, LMR, etc. so plenty of people not in Scotland can have one. Here it is in Birmingham.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/95560788@N08/34709197540

 

It could also be sold in LMS red and black, and no problem running it with BR Mark 1s. There is also the little matter of the Jones Goods appearing soon.

 

I reckon get in there before someone else does it as I would think someone like Rapido will have their eye on it.

 

 

Jason

[Robin Brasher]

I ordered mine through my local model shop on a preserved railway and I have not heard anything about it being cancelled. I had my doubts about ordering it in the first place and now the decision has been made for me.  I have still got the original Caledonian 123 and a couple of coaches.

[nightstar.train]

On 03/05/2023 at 12:40, Steamport Southport said:

I reckon get in there before someone else does it as I would think someone like Rapido will have their eye on it.

 

Rapido did scan the Jones goods at the Riverside museum in Glasgow, where 123 is also kept. I would be amazed if they didn't scan 123 at the same time, and possibly the Glen class as well. 

 

I wonder if it's the coach or loco moulds they can't find or are broken? If Rapido did do a 123 all singing and dancing like their Stirling Single, would Hornby quickly make a batch of Railroad ones? 

[andyman7]

I'm curious as to what's gone missing - I'm trying to think whether the 'Caledonian' Mk1s have ever been produced in China (I'm sure that the Caley single has); there was a fairly well publicised cull of remaining Triang and UK Hornby tools at Margate a few years back which meant that anything that had not previously been sent to China was no longer available.
It is of course entirely possible to re-make missing tools by CAD scanning original model components but presumably that wasn't considered cost effective in this case.

[cctransuk]

I have no recollection of ever hearing of China production Caley 'Mk.1s'.

 

CJI.

[andyman7]

2 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

I have no recollection of ever hearing of China production Caley 'Mk.1s'.

 

CJI.

I've just checked and the coaches (in LMS livery) were included in the R2806 'Last Single Wheeler' pack from (I think) 2009. That would have been the Sanda Kan era so the tools clearly made it out to the far east but since then something must have got broken or gone missing.

Edited May 4, 2023 by andyman7

[nightstar.train]

1 minute ago, andyman7 said:

It is of course entirely possible to re-make missing tools by CAD scanning original model components but presumably that wasn't considered cost effective in this case.

 

AAIUI a set of tools costs at least high 5 figures, and more likely 6 figures, even for a 'simple' item. The new Bachmann class 47 tooling suite is reported to have cost a million pounds. Bachmann obviously intend to use that for many years and produce dozens of different variations and liveries. But with the Caley 123 or the Caley coaches you've basically got one variation and you won't shift huge quantities of it. Certainly won't be popping out a new one very year. So I would imagine a new tool would be uneconomical. 

[BernardTPM]

There was a China made CR livery train pack in 2007 too, R2610. The coaches looked really good with the modern livery application.

[andyman7]

3 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

 

AAIUI a set of tools costs at least high 5 figures, and more likely 6 figures, even for a 'simple' item. The new Bachmann class 47 tooling suite is reported to have cost a million pounds. Bachmann obviously intend to use that for many years and produce dozens of different variations and liveries. But with the Caley 123 or the Caley coaches you've basically got one variation and you won't shift huge quantities of it. Certainly won't be popping out a new one very year. So I would imagine a new tool would be uneconomical. 

Indeed, although occasionally new tooling is undertaken to allow a model to be reissued. Airfix are finally reissuing the 1:32 Bond Bug kit after 50 years out of the range. Original unmade kits can trade at over £200 so the move is very welcome, but apparently the re-release is requiring the 'clear parts' tool to be remade as the original is either unserviceable or lost. Of course even today a plastic kit run will be several thousand units greater than that of a train pack so the economics no doubt stack up.   

[melmerby]

There seems to be loads of tools still at Margate in storage. (seen during the TV series, more than once)

Whether they are Triang, Hornby, Airfix, Scalextric or whatever, I wouldn't know.

[Legend]

They made this a few years ago , certainly after the tools had been shipped to China . It appeared in updated Caley livery with three proper Caley liveried coaches . I think the loco had been amended to have traction tyres and a pickup from front bogie . Will find out soon as thats what I've ordered from eBay .  So its not like they lost the tools in Margate , unless they shipped them back from China - unlikely I would think !  

 

[HExpressD]

9 hours ago, melmerby said:

There seems to be loads of tools still at Margate in storage. (seen during the TV series, more than once)

Whether they are Triang, Hornby, Airfix, Scalextric or whatever, I wouldn't know.

Mainly Airfix and old EU brand (Jouef etc)

[andyman7]

9 hours ago, melmerby said:

There seems to be loads of tools still at Margate in storage. (seen during the TV series, more than once)

Whether they are Triang, Hornby, Airfix, Scalextric or whatever, I wouldn't know.

The ones that have been kept seem to be mostly Airfix. If I recall correctly pretty much all the remaining UK based legacy railway tooling was scrapped around five or six years ago. Given that this consisted only of items not made for at least 20 years this isn't quite the tragedy it might appear. 
The issue arose when Simon Kohler was investigating whether to re-issue the APT and established that the tools were gone. As we have seen, the response was a brand new set of tools; similarly, the 'Rocket' was retooled. I don't think anyone would massively object if at some point in the future a new Caledonian single was tooled up - the model would be a step change compared to the old Triang tools.

[melmerby]

6 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

I don't think anyone would massively object if at some point in the future a new Caledonian single was tooled up

Or a 3031 (Achilles) class GWR 4-2-2, of which there were eventually 80.

Lord of the Isles was 3046, they were all gone by the end of 1915.

[Hroth]

123 and the Achilles class locos (Lorna Doone, Achilles, LoTI to name the most recent DCC ready locos I can remember*) use the same "updated" chassis so I don't think that will be updated further any time soon.  If the 123 body/tender tools have gone AWOL, they might not be remade in anything more than an equivalent standard as it would be pointless given the chassis!

 

I've a feeling that it might be the tools for the coaches that have gone missing.

 

* Or rather, I've actually got.  Lorna Doone was a "Limited Edition" and came with a certificate bearing a facsimile of SKs signature**!

** Now that Simons retirement has been announced, does that make it "L@@K! RARE!!!"?

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Hroth
spelin and some extra thort

[Jenny Emily]

A tool could have just broken. They are quite old. Bachmann had this with the old former Mainline Midland coaches where after a last hurrah of several releases they announced that all further versions were cancelled because something broke. 

[andyman7]

'Oh dear, the tool for Flying Scotsman has broken, we'll have to stop making it' 😀

[298]

5 hours ago, andyman7 said:

'Oh dear, the tool for Flying Scotsman has broken, we'll have to stop making it' 😀

 

They'd just make another. What looks like the Thomas body that was modified from the original E2 took is actually on something like it's third or fourth brand new tool.

[andyman7]

7 minutes ago, 298 said:

 

They'd just make another. What looks like the Thomas body that was modified from the original E2 took is actually on something like it's third or fourth brand new tool.

It was a joke, playing on the fact that Triang-cum-Hornby are now on about their eighth set of tools for Flying Scotsman. As you say, any issues would just be addressed by replacing the missing or worn items.

[locoholic]

8 hours ago, Jenny Emily said:

A tool could have just broken. They are quite old. Bachmann had this with the old former Mainline Midland coaches where after a last hurrah of several releases they announced that all further versions were cancelled because something broke. 

And yet something very similar remains available in the Bachmann Thomas the Tank Engine range.

[Steamport Southport]

No idea about the Thomas range, have they been altered in any way? I can't see whether the panelling has gone.

 

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/category/522/gordon's-express-brake-coach/76035be

 

 

 

ISTR the last appearance of the LMS coaches was the Thames Clyde Express with Midland Compound train sets.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/71906/bachmann_branchline_30_170_thames_clyde_express_with_midland_compound_1000_2_x_corridor_composite_3rd_brak/stockdetail

 

 

Jason