Precision Paints - Ex-Kirk Coach Kits in 4mm scale

[Nile]

From what I could see the new kits don't include wheels, I don't know about the buffers. The old kits included OO wheels whether you wanted them or not.

[MikeTrice]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

In the meantime, had you thought of marketing the 3D printed ends? (Or resin-cast ends from the 3D printed master)?

 

CJI

I don't think they would be viable. None of the techniques mentioned lend themselves to volume production.

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, MikeTrice said:

I don't think they would be viable. None of the techniques mentioned lend themselves to volume production.

 

In which case, would you be prepared to put the design on Thingiverse, so that interested parties could print just the quantity that they needed?

 

I am sure that such a generous gesture would be greatly appreciated.

 

CJI.

[MikeTrice]

I am not sure about Thingiverse but I might be prepared to upload here.

Gresley End FDM v04.stl

[Mallard60022]

8 hours ago, MikeTrice said:

Some earlier posters have commented on the incorrect roof profile where the ex-Kirk 61'6" Gresley's are concerned. To me this has always made them stand out a mile and I can spot one in an instant.

 

In the past I have successfully cross kitted Kirk sides with an MJT roof and cast ends. One thing I have never tried, until now, is the obvious one of modifying the Kirk mouldings themselves.

 

So as a starting point here is a Kirk end against a scaled GA drawing:

 

Note how much shorter this is which results in a too short corridor connector and when viewed from the side too big a curve to the roof.

 

The first step was to build up the height of the end with styrene. I used Evergreen .080" x .156":

 

The addition was then filed back to the correct shape including at this point the end beading:

 

Now I have a confession to make. I should have included in the above modification the cornice that edges the roof. I managed to find one single Kirk end and some pre-used sides that I could just about cobble together to prove if this approach works, however I decided at this point ot print out using my FDM printer some replacement ends rather than use my last Kirk original.

 

The carriage body was then assembled after filing back the moulding draft along the top edge, adding a piece of 20thou styrene to restore the height of the side and cutting back the supplied roof to fit behind the extended ends:

 

 

 

The joint between the cut back supplied roof and extended ends was then filled with Milliput and sanded smooth. The transformation is obvious and the side profile is much improved in the process:

 

 

 

Yes I cheated by using a new coach end, however I have proved that it is perfectly viable to modify the supplied Kirk mouldings to correct the most glaring error in the kits.

 

Hopefully one day the new owners might be in a position to retool the roofs and ends to make this unnecessary.

Classic mod Mike.

Phil

[cctransuk]

4 hours ago, MikeTrice said:

I am not sure about Thingiverse but I might be prepared to upload here.

Gresley End FDM v04.stl 509.55 kB · 13 downloads

 

Mike,

 

Thank you, on behalf of all those who wish to follow your improvement project.

 

 

CJI.

[MikeTrice]

The 3D printed ends are a bit of a diversion. They were just to avoid me having to use my one remaining original Kirk end. It is actually quicker to modify the original end as detailed than to print a replacement.

[Pint of Adnams]

10 hours ago, MikeTrice said:

Hopefully one day the new owners might be in a position to retool the roofs and ends to make this unnecessary.

I've had a couple of conversations with a guy who helps out at Precision and suggested that perhaps Chris Stapleton's best move would be to invest in decent underframes for all four principal types (60', 51', truss rod and angle truss) with their associated underpinnings. That would probably make the greatest improvement and then further improvements could be made to the ends and roofs, and then the bodysides. Also gives scope for introducing more types in due course.

 

Of course that sort of investment will depend on sufficient customer interest by way of purchases. Interesting that, unlike Ian Kirk, Chris has invested in a substantial quantity of the 'teak' colour granules - Ian has reverted to plain white as the minimum order quantity is much less.

[JaymzHatstand]

3 hours ago, MikeTrice said:

It is actually quicker to modify the original end as detailed than to print a replacement.

 

Especially if one doesn't own a 3D printer! (Yet!) Though I have saved the file just in case, and am grateful for it, just in case! I'll definitely give the physical end mods a try though! I've still got a stash of older kits to go at, and now that they're not going to be as difficult to get hold of. Those and the fleet of Isinglass I've got my eye on!

 

Cheers

 

J

[MikeTrice]

Following on from my earlier post about reprofiling the original Kirk ends I have made some further adjustments. My filed beading has been removed from the top along with some of the moulded in beading. A new top cornice has been added and the now mising end beading replaced with 0.5mm rod. A dimension plate and jumper cables have also been added.

[brossard]

A very interesting thread.  I checked the website and noticed a mention of "he who shall not be named", so wondering if the Coopercraft range is also at Phoenix now.

 

I can contribute a bit to this discussion since I actually completed a 7mm Kirk Gresley BG.  I have part assembled two other coaches but these got put  aside when Hatton's came out with their Gresley's.

 

 

When you tip the bag onto the work  bench  you get the basics, body sides that have to be assembled, roof, underframe and bogies (no wheels).  For the rest that is up to the modeller.  The main effort for my coach was detailing the underframe:

 

 

I was determined to add as much detail as was reasonable.  I was helped enormously in this by downloading the manual for Kemilway Gresley coach kits.  This manual is of near biblical proportions but does include invaluable sketches of the details.

 

https://www.kemilway.com/kemilway-manual.html

 

I deal for those who want to go mad.  No reason why the 4mm modeller can't benefit from this too.

 

The only drawback now is that the Hatton's coaches look pale in comparison.

 

John

[Bucoops]

53 minutes ago, brossard said:

A very interesting thread.  I checked the website and noticed a mention of "he who shall not be named", so wondering if the Coopercraft range is also at Phoenix now.

 

I can contribute a bit to this discussion since I actually completed a 7mm Kirk Gresley BG.  I have part assembled two other coaches but these got put  aside when Hatton's came out with their Gresley's.

 

 

When you tip the bag onto the work  bench  you get the basics, body sides that have to be assembled, roof, underframe and bogies (no wheels).  For the rest that is up to the modeller.  The main effort for my coach was detailing the underframe:

 

 

I was determined to add as much detail as was reasonable.  I was helped enormously in this by downloading the manual for Kemilway Gresley coach kits.  This manual is of near biblical proportions but does include invaluable sketches of the details.

 

https://www.kemilway.com/kemilway-manual.html

 

I deal for those who want to go mad.  No reason why the 4mm modeller can't benefit from this too.

 

The only drawback now is that the Hatton's coaches look pale in comparison.

 

John

 

 

Cambrian have taken over the Cooper-Craft side - https://www.cambrianmodelrail.co.uk/

 

 

[Pint of Adnams]

On 19/06/2023 at 15:10, Bucoops said:

 

 

Cambrian have taken over the Cooper-Craft side - https://www.cambrianmodelrail.co.uk/

 

 

And conveniently also stocked by H&A Models (no connection other than as a very satisfied customer): Cambrian Model Rail 4mm (hamodels.net)

[Mallard60022]

46 minutes ago, Pint of Adnams said:

And conveniently also stocked by H&A Models (no connection other than as a very satisfied customer): Cambrian Model Rail 4mm (hamodels.net)

H & A have 4mm Red Panda UFs too.

[Richard_A]

On 19/06/2023 at 11:07, MikeTrice said:

Following on from my earlier post about reprofiling the original Kirk ends I have made some further adjustments. My filed beading has been removed from the top along with some of the moulded in beading. A new top cornice has been added and the now mising end beading replaced with 0.5mm rod. A dimension plate and jumper cables have also been added.

This looks interesting, I have two of the gresley buffet kits to build and could you tell me where you get the dimensions from please? 

 

I don't know anything regarding the lner but I would like to build the kits as accurately as possible. 

[MikeTrice]

Original LNER GA drawings.

[micklner]

Isinglass Models do drawings as well.

[MikeTrice]

@rkathe attached might be useful. It includes the correct profile reproduced in 4mm scale as well as some underframe details (however not for the Buffet Cars). Open the pdf and print at 100% on A4.

Gresley End Profile 4mm.pdf

Edited June 27, 2023 by MikeTrice

[Richard_A]

53 minutes ago, MikeTrice said:

@rkathe attached might be useful. It includes the correct profile reproduced in 4mm scale as well as some underframe details (however not for the Buffet Cars). Open the pdf and print at 100% on A4.

Gresley End Profile 4mm.pdf 4.79 MB · 4 downloads

Thank you very much. 

[Steamport Southport]

Maybe this will answer a few questions about the damaged tooling.

 

We have spent the last few months slowly working throught the Kirk / Mailcoach tooling and have managed to produce a number of coaches for sale.

 

These are currently available either from H & A Models, John Dutfield Model Railways or direct from ourselves. Currently only kits listed with a price on this website are available.

 

We have also indentified a number of tools that will require remaking due to exteme mishandling whilst with P Dunn in Somerset

 

The most noticable at present of these is the armrest tool for the first class coaches. This should have 14 (or 16!) armrests on it. Due to damage it is only producing 6 good ones. Kits that require this moulding will have additional sprues to compensate.

 

The good news is that things are moving along, the bad news is that it is slow work.

 

 

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/news/kirk--mailcoach-update

 

 

Jason