Dapol to produce Hawksworth Q13 Inspection Saloon for Rails of Sheffield

[dj_crisp]

An interesting release! Anyone know which of these were used much in Devon/Cornwall in the late 70s/early 80s? Finding photos of them while in BR use is a bit tricky.

 

Thanks

Will

[SWASFRS46256]

19 minutes ago, dj_crisp said:

An interesting release! Anyone know which of these were used much in Devon/Cornwall in the late 70s/early 80s? Finding photos of them while in BR use is a bit tricky.

 

Thanks

Will

 

Here's One in Dawlish in 1982

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/121196525@N07/32540614104/

 

 

Other than that the closest I can find in that time period is a few in Bristol

 

https://www.departmentals.com/photo/80975a

 

https://christrerise.smugmug.com/RailwayPhotosYearbyYear/Railway-Photos-1980s/Railway-Photos-1981/i-t4RX8Z5

 

Here's a few in the late 80s in Devon and Cornwall though

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/neil_harvey_railway_photos/8030214721

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hemerdon/24543410771/in/photolist-DoPoWF

 

 

 

 

[dj_crisp]

1 hour ago, SWASFRS46256 said:

 

Here's One in Dawlish in 1982

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/121196525@N07/32540614104/

 

 

Other than that the closest I can find in that time period is a few in Bristol

 

https://www.departmentals.com/photo/80975a

 

https://christrerise.smugmug.com/RailwayPhotosYearbyYear/Railway-Photos-1980s/Railway-Photos-1981/i-t4RX8Z5

 

Here's a few in the late 80s in Devon and Cornwall though

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/neil_harvey_railway_photos/8030214721

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hemerdon/24543410771/in/photolist-DoPoWF

 

 

 

 

Excellent. Many thanks!

I'm very tempted with a blue grey one!

[Covkid]

2 hours ago, dj_crisp said:

An interesting release! Anyone know which of these were used much in Devon/Cornwall in the late 70s/early 80s? Finding photos of them while in BR use is a bit tricky.

 

Thanks

Will

Only a guess but I imagine the WR ones were used in a similar manner the ex LMS ones - on a divisional basis.  There was an LMS designed one 45026 based at Walsall, which was often hauled around the Birmingham division by one of Bescot's 2Ps, and latterly a "Mickey Mouse" 2MT. 45026 actually had it's own shed at Walsall.  I am assuming the WR organisation had a similar arrangement and guess there were allocations to maybe London, Swindon, Bristol, Cardiff and Plymouth or Newton Abbot, with maybe one at Tyseley or Stafford Road, or even Salop or Wrexham or Croes Newydd maybe ?   

[Standards_in_OO]

Is the Western Region version the same number as the one on the Llangollen Railway? Would like the one on the NYMR but would settle for that one if it’s based on the one at Llangollen. 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Covkid said:

Only a guess but I imagine the WR ones were used in a similar manner the ex LMS ones - on a divisional basis.  There was an LMS designed one 45026 based at Walsall, which was often hauled around the Birmingham division by one of Bescot's 2Ps, and latterly a "Mickey Mouse" 2MT. 45026 actually had it's own shed at Walsall.  I am assuming the WR organisation had a similar arrangement and guess there were allocations to maybe London, Swindon, Bristol, Cardiff and Plymouth or Newton Abbot, with maybe one at Tyseley or Stafford Road, or even Salop or Wrexham or Croes Newydd maybe ?   

I think most if not all of the saloons  to this diagram were allocated to District/Divisional Civil Engineers beiny g loabed to other departments as needed.  Thus they would have been allocated where the various Civil Engineers were based rather than on the basis of traffic Divisions or Districts.  Hence one at Newport, where the CE District HQ was based, and not at Cardiff although I don't know if there would have been one of these on the Cardiff Valleys District?

[SWASFRS46256]

1 hour ago, Standards_in_OO said:

Is the Western Region version the same number as the one on the Llangollen Railway? Would like the one on the NYMR but would settle for that one if it’s based on the one at Llangollen. 

001 is 80943 which was the first and is in the original, straight out of the factory livery.  Currently on the Dean Forrest Railway.

 

80975 (now at Llangollen) was the only one to carry the executive and Scotrail livery so it would made sense to do it in those liveries and do one of the others in the WR C&C

 

80972 has been in that twin cities GWR livery since 1969, except for a few years at the SVR

 

1 hour ago, Covkid said:

Only a guess but I imagine the WR ones were used in a similar manner the ex LMS ones - on a divisional basis.  There was an LMS designed one 45026 based at Walsall, which was often hauled around the Birmingham division by one of Bescot's 2Ps, and latterly a "Mickey Mouse" 2MT. 45026 actually had it's own shed at Walsall.  I am assuming the WR organisation had a similar arrangement and guess there were allocations to maybe London, Swindon, Bristol, Cardiff and Plymouth or Newton Abbot, with maybe one at Tyseley or Stafford Road, or even Salop or Wrexham or Croes Newydd maybe ?   

 

80943 was based in London

80969 - Newport

80970 - I can’t remember but is written down somewhere

80972 - Shrewsbury

80974 - Birmingham

80975 - Bristol

80976 - Taunton

 

That’s what I’ve guessed were their original allocations based on photo captions and the small text in the corners of the sides of the coaches

[Pteremy]

I have a note saying that 80976 was allocated to Taunton when new 20/8/49 - but (annoyingly and unusually) I don't have a reference for that info. 

 

I am surprised that it still had a SYP in 1978 - I had assumed that it would have been FYP long before that. But then again I am surprised that it is still in WR chocolate and Cream at that time. 

 

Perhaps there will be a 'standard' 1950's version in a second batch.

[Pteremy]

An entirely separate point but I hope that there is a Modelu tie in to this - some figures to populate the excellent interior. 

[SWASFRS46256]

19 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

I have a note saying that 80976 was allocated to Taunton when new 20/8/49 - but (annoyingly and unusually) I don't have a reference for that info. 

 

I am surprised that it still had a SYP in 1978 - I had assumed that it would have been FYP long before that. But then again I am surprised that it is still in WR chocolate and Cream at that time. 

 

Perhaps there will be a 'standard' 1950's version in a second batch.

It’s quite appropriate that after withdrawal it was preserved at the West Somerset

 

The idea behind doing the SYP is that it could appeal to those who are interested in the Western hydraulics giving they have their own following. Or for those who model pre-TOPS but want something different to BR Blue.  Rather than giving 2 BR steam era versions

From what I can tell they all had that double lining for most of the 50s, I’ll have to check my photos to see if there’s any going into the 60s

[Pteremy]

2 minutes ago, SWASFRS46256 said:

 

From what I can tell they all had that double lining for most of the 50s, I’ll have to check my photos to see if there’s any going into the 60s

 

It is the colour of the droplight window frames that are the difference between 'as built' and what I assume to be 1950s BR  'standard' (from the photos I have seen), not the lining. But if you can find photos of 'as built' frames persisting late into the 1950's I would be interested to see them. 

[SWASFRS46256]

12 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

 

It is the colour of the droplight window frames that are the difference between 'as built' and what I assume to be 1950s BR  'standard' (from the photos I have seen), not the lining. But if you can find photos of 'as built' frames persisting late into the 1950's I would be interested to see them. 

I’ll do some digging when I’m back infront of my computer on Monday.  I do remember there were various different combinations we could’ve gone for in regards to droplight colours, lining and under frame detail.

 

I’ve built up a collection of about 80 to 90 photos of them in service for BR that I’ve found online.  I don’t want to go sharing them everywhere without giving the proper credit to their owners, but that’s all on my work computer. 

 

The HMRS had some great high quality photos of 80943 just after it was built all taken on the same day, from different angles.  It was a lot easier to get details off that than an often blurry 3/4 angle picture.  They were also kept very clean in service, so the reflections don’t help when trying to get body decorations.

[6990WitherslackHall]

I'm guessing W80974W (preserved on the NYMR) will be covered in the second batch of models if there is one. Failing that, you could always renumber one.

[Ian J.]

ISTR seeing one of these at Bristol one time, in blue/grey. I can see me getting one as a 'memento' of that memory 🙂👍

[Covkid]

Incidentally, the saloon at Llangollen featured in the Model World video has the vacuum brake pipes where the steam bag normally is, and the twin air brake pipes where the vac pipe normally is.  Assume Dapol have spotted this and will take it into account -= presume the vac pipe switched sides when it was dual braked  

 

However trhe Departmentals.com webpage has it vacuum braked in RR livery here /www.departmentals.com/photo/80975b

 

So maybe Dapol will release in BR(Sc) condition, but not as preserved   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Covkid

[melmoth]

On 02/06/2023 at 09:16, Great Waterton said:

Here's 37430 at Oban in August 1992. It has some kind of saloon behind it which I assume is the "BR ScotRail" one Dapol are doing.

 

It's very difficult to say from old photographs and the artwork but the blue stripe looks more like BR Blue to me rather than the lighter ScotRail blue used on most of their other stock at the time. Could this be why it looks a bit off/fake? I seem to remember some early ScotRail livery stock using BR Blue instead of the later, lighter shade. Could this be a similar situation, depending on when it was repainted?

 

 

In all honesty, looking at the overall colour balance in that photo, it could just be on a bad afternoon in Mordor.

 

[hmrspaul]

80970 appearing to be as they intend to model propelled into Chepstow in 1977 by a 37 - bit of a shock as I was nearly trespassing 🤐 to get some ballast hopper photos https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/inspectionsaloon/e9367c2  Departed the way it came. 

 

Paul

Edited June 3, 2023 by hmrspaul

[Great Waterton]

40 minutes ago, melmoth said:

 

In all honesty, looking at the overall colour balance in that photo, it could just be on a bad afternoon in Mordor.

 

 

I'd say that's a given, but it's clearly a Rail Blue stripe in other photo's too. In fact it looks pretty rough.

 

Was it hand painted and/or done in a rush? 😂

[Lee1975]

On 02/06/2023 at 11:43, dj_crisp said:

An interesting release! Anyone know which of these were used much in Devon/Cornwall in the late 70s/early 80s? Finding photos of them while in BR use is a bit tricky.

 

Thanks

Will

There is a photo in John Vaughan’s “Newquay Branch and it’s branches” book of 50037 (Large Logo) and an Inspection Saloon (Blue/Grey) going through Luxulyan around 1985.

[The Johnster]

On 02/06/2023 at 14:39, Covkid said:

Only a guess but I imagine the WR ones were used in a similar manner the ex LMS ones - on a divisional basis.  There was an LMS designed one 45026 based at Walsall, which was often hauled around the Birmingham division by one of Bescot's 2Ps, and latterly a "Mickey Mouse" 2MT. 45026 actually had it's own shed at Walsall.  I am assuming the WR organisation had a similar arrangement and guess there were allocations to maybe London, Swindon, Bristol, Cardiff and Plymouth or Newton Abbot, with maybe one at Tyseley or Stafford Road, or even Salop or Wrexham or Croes Newydd maybe ?   

 

On the WR, they were stationed at the divisional headquarters, usually in sidings rather than at loco depots, convenient to the divisional CCEs' offices.  When Newport division became Cardiff division, the Newport saloon remained at Newport, stabling in Godfrey Road sidings near Newport High St. station.  Bristol's ISTR lived in the Bristol & Exeter bays at Temple Meads.

[The Stationmaster]

10 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

On the WR, they were stationed at the divisional headquarters, usually in sidings rather than at loco depots, convenient to the divisional CCEs' offices.  When Newport division became Cardiff division, the Newport saloon remained at Newport, stabling in Godfrey Road sidings near Newport High St. station.  Bristol's ISTR lived in the Bristol & Exeter bays at Temple Meads.

No - the Newport Divisional Civil Engineer never moved from Newport although it was later retitled Area Civil Engineer.  and as they were in Godfrey Road their saloon remained at their site.   The Bristol Civil Engineer's dsaloon remained at Temple Meads within fairly short walking distance of their office.

[acourtrail]

Just need Dapol to do this in N!  Did these saloons carry any other liveries apart from the ones already being done?

[muddys-blues]

Don't Dapol make 7mm models as well ? 😁 , here is hoping there will be an upscale "fingers crossed"

[Rugd1022]

These two Neil Philips shots of D6322 with DB999508 at Truro in 1971 are from the excellent Cornwall Railway Society site...

 

 

 

I appreciate it's not a Hawksworth Saloon but is a nice bit of filler all the same.

 

 

 

 

[Mark Hamlin]

Would love to see one in Crimson and Cream. I ended up repainting my LMS maroon one into this livery some years ago and it looks very fetching IMHO😀