Hornby 2023 annual results

[blueeighties]

3 minutes ago, Mike Bellamy said:

 

Just to add a bit of controversy to the numerous comments in this topic - now on page 8, why haven't any of you (except Mike SM) said anything about the Bachmann results ?

 

Just two comments in 24 hours . . . . . . . . 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/180035-Bachmann-europe-2022-results/#comment-5211866

.

Because this is a discussion about Hornby.....

[Widnes Model Centre]

As @Ravensor has mentioned, Airfix is still really big. This week saw the arrival of two very eagerly awaited new releases, Hawker Hunter and Blackburn Buccaneer, Gulf War version. Not to forget a London Taxi in Airfix Quickbuild, very popular with the younger and not so young modellers. Received notification of my allocation early this week. 

Today, three emails from Hornby’s Logistics Company. Three emails from DPD. Three notifications from the DPD App. Very well informed aren’t we. 

About an hour ago, received three emailed invoices. All Hornby  and none of the new Airfix. Check DPD notifications and ‘we have your order x 3 but we do not yet have your parcels’. Hopefully they will collect in the next day or so, this is very normal especially towards the end of the month.

 

For me to order these items, search for or request an order form. Fill in the order form, send to account manager. He will then forward to the sales team. Normally within a day or two they will input on system and we receive an acknowledgement of our order. Presumably our order is then forwarded to the Logistics company. Once in picking and picked, but not necessarily sent, we are invoiced . With a bit of luck and a fair wind, we will eventually receive our order. 

So excited customers expecting new releases in the shop this week. Already have orders for the Airfix. Are we panicking? Not one bit. While I’ve been typing this, my wife, Gill had just placed an order for all the Airfix items with our local wholesalers. They are guaranteed to be delivered before midday tomorrow. Less than 16 hours from ordering.

 

Room for improvement somewhere?

 

Honest answers only. should l really ask Airfix, “Where’s my Buccaneers “?

 

 
 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Widnes Model Centre
Add text

[Mike Bellamy]

12 minutes ago, blueeighties said:

Because this is a discussion about Hornby.....

 Of course I realise that - but why haven't there been any comments in the Bachmann topic - you all have your opinions in this topic about what is right or wrong with Hornby but in the equivalent topic about Bachmann, only Mike SM responded. Seemed rather odd so I asked the question why nobody has an opinion about what is right or wrong at Bachmann.

.

[Ravenser]

31 minutes ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

As @Ravensor has mentioned, Airfix is still really big. This week saw the arrival of two very eagerly awaited new releases, Hawker Hunter and Blackburn Buccaneer, Gulf War version. Not to forget a London Taxi in Airfix Quickbuild, very popular with the younger and not so young modellers. Received notification of my allocation early this week. 

Today, three emails from Hornby’s Logistics Company. Three emails from DPD. Three notifications from the DPD App. Very well informed aren’t we. 

About an hour ago, received three emailed invoices. All Hornby  and none of the new Airfix. Check DPD notifications and ‘we have your order x 3 but we do not yet have your parcels’. Hopefully they will collect in the next day or so, this is very normal especially towards the end of the month.

 

For me to order these items, search for or request an order form. Fill in the order form, send to account manager. He will then forward to the sales team. Normally within a day or two they will input on system and we receive an acknowledgement of our order. Presumably our order is then forwarded to the Logistics company. Once in picking and picked, but not necessarily sent, we are invoiced . With a bit of luck and a fair wind, we will eventually receive our order. 

So excited customers expecting new releases in the shop this week. Already have orders for the Airfix. Are we panicking? Not one bit. While I’ve been typing this, my wife, Gill had just placed an order for all the Airfix items with our local wholesalers. They are guaranteed to be delivered before midday tomorrow. Less than 16 hours from ordering.

 

Room for improvement somewhere?

 

Honest answers only. should l really ask Airfix, “Where’s my Buccaneers “?

 

 
 

 

 

That is enlightening when read in parallel with Bachmann's boasts about their digital trade platform:

 

Quote

 The launch of the dealer portal and service centre trade platforms contributed significantly to this [turnover] growth

 

Perhaps one thing Hornby could do is go digital on the trade side, as well as the direct sales side....

[JohnR]

13 hours ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

As @Ravensor has mentioned, Airfix is still really big. This week saw the arrival of two very eagerly awaited new releases, Hawker Hunter and Blackburn Buccaneer, Gulf War version. Not to forget a London Taxi in Airfix Quickbuild, very popular with the younger and not so young modellers. Received notification of my allocation early this week. 

Today, three emails from Hornby’s Logistics Company. Three emails from DPD. Three notifications from the DPD App. Very well informed aren’t we. 

About an hour ago, received three emailed invoices. All Hornby  and none of the new Airfix. Check DPD notifications and ‘we have your order x 3 but we do not yet have your parcels’. Hopefully they will collect in the next day or so, this is very normal especially towards the end of the month.

 

For me to order these items, search for or request an order form. Fill in the order form, send to account manager. He will then forward to the sales team. Normally within a day or two they will input on system and we receive an acknowledgement of our order. Presumably our order is then forwarded to the Logistics company. Once in picking and picked, but not necessarily sent, we are invoiced . With a bit of luck and a fair wind, we will eventually receive our order. 

So excited customers expecting new releases in the shop this week. Already have orders for the Airfix. Are we panicking? Not one bit. While I’ve been typing this, my wife, Gill had just placed an order for all the Airfix items with our local wholesalers. They are guaranteed to be delivered before midday tomorrow. Less than 16 hours from ordering.

 

Room for improvement somewhere?

 

Honest answers only. should l really ask Airfix, “Where’s my Buccaneers “?

 

 
 

 

Which feeds back to the comments I quoted by Mark Tilbury of Model World. Hornby just seem to have a very antiquated way of dealing with retailers.

 

[Dunsignalling]

2 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

Which feeds back to the comments I quoted by Mark Tilbury of Model World. Hornby just seem to have a very antiquated way of dealing with retailers.

 

An inevitable consequence of doing other things in an antiquated way.

 

1. Making an annual announcement of their intended programme and publish a printed catalogue.

 

2. To avoid letting cats out of bags, they can't take orders off dealers until after (1.)

 

3. In order to have any chance of getting the models out during the currency of the catalogue, Hornby has to place their orders with the factories before (2.)  

 

4. They therefore have to "calculate" production quantities without knowing the level of dealer demand.

 

That methodology, quite frankly, lies somewhere on the borderline between inefficient and bl**dy stupid, and unless the "new broom" changes the process, they'll carry on pi55ing off their dealers, and those end customers who prefer to see before they buy, every year. Not to mention everybody who misses out on a model they want through avoidable under-supply. All of which impacts the bottom line.

 

Getting all the annoyance out of the way in one go by going to 100% direct selling seems a bit drastic, though! ☹️

 

John 

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The unspoken admission is that Hornby's share of the OO market is shrinking due to multiple strong competitors. TT:120 is their plan to create a safety zone for themselves.

 

Problem is, as I see it, is that all the launch effort has been directed at the Hornby faithful and the uninitiated who we are regularly told are unaware that anybody else sells model trains.

 

In most cases, the purchase of any loco involves a choice being made over another one and I suspect that will usually be a Hornby OO loco....

 

John

The bigger question is not just their share of the 00 market but their share of the total model railway market - where there is further competition from, e.g. Peco selling British made track to numerous suppliers in the scenic area and control equipment etc.   Hence the. in my view, very sensible marketing decision by Hornby to go for TT120 where they intend to return to being able to dominate part of the UK market.

 

As for the rest of it they really need to decide how they intend to play things although one sign of change is emerging. 

[JSpencer]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

An inevitable consequence of doing other things in an antiquated way.

 

1. Making an annual announcement of their intended programme and publish a printed catalogue.

 

2. To avoid letting cats out of bags, they can't take orders off dealers until after (1.)

 

3. In order to have any chance of getting the models out during the currency of the catalogue, Hornby has to place their orders with the factories before (2.)  

 

4. They therefore have to "calculate" production quantities without knowing the level of dealer demand.

 

That methodology, quite frankly, lies somewhere on the borderline between inefficient and bl**dy stupid, and unless the "new broom" changes the process, they'll carry on pi55ing off their dealers, and those end customers who prefer to see before they buy, every year. Not to mention everybody who misses out on a model they want through avoidable under-supply. All of which impacts the bottom line.

 

Getting all the annoyance out of the way in one go by going to 100% direct selling seems a bit drastic, though! ☹️

 

John 

 

Hornby should have enough sales data to be able to better managed that than any newcomer which won't.

 

Thereafter, they need someone intelligent enough to define the correct buckets (all new tooled loco vs railroad vs detailed repeat etc...)  to get close enough so as to not over produce nor under produce.

 

A flaw (IMHO) that Hornby still follows is they do too few models in run 1 keeping the pretty one for run 2 etc... I know this was done to get people to buy 2 of the same class.... but it does not work anymore. Either we don't buy run 1 (hopeing for run 2) or won't buy run 2 as there is some other all new loco to choose from. In this day and age, tooling costs need to be recovered in run 1 I feel. 

 

How many all new locos have we seen in the bargin bins? I was surprised to see the APT 7 car set on sale with a heavy discount recently. This is happening just before run 2 appears. I expected the initial run to have completely sold out. Yet if they did not, what chance has run 2 got when it eventually appears?

 

[Dunsignalling]

48 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

Hornby should have enough sales data to be able to better managed that than any newcomer which won't.

 

Thereafter, they need someone intelligent enough to define the correct buckets (all new tooled loco vs railroad vs detailed repeat etc...)  to get close enough so as to not over produce nor under produce.

 

A flaw (IMHO) that Hornby still follows is they do too few models in run 1 keeping the pretty one for run 2 etc... I know this was done to get people to buy 2 of the same class.... but it does not work anymore. Either we don't buy run 1 (hopeing for run 2) or won't buy run 2 as there is some other all new loco to choose from. In this day and age, tooling costs need to be recovered in run 1 I feel. 

 

How many all new locos have we seen in the bargin bins? I was surprised to see the APT 7 car set on sale with a heavy discount recently. This is happening just before run 2 appears. I expected the initial run to have completely sold out. Yet if they did not, what chance has run 2 got when it eventually appears?

 

The critical word in your post is the second one!

 

Accurascale and Rapido (and, I'd think, most of Hornby's longer-established competitors) have a specific routine for judging production runs, they take orders both for retailer and direct sale, and add a percentage to allow for the indecisive and those who won't "buy blind".

 

Hornby's business model just doesn't allow as much data to be acquired so there's more guesswork involved. 

 

John 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, JSpencer said:

How many all new locos have we seen in the bargin bins? I was surprised to see the APT 7 car set on sale with a heavy discount recently. This is happening just before run 2 appears. I expected the initial run to have completely sold out. Yet if they did not, what chance has run 2 got when it eventually appears?

 

Telling everyone how they will improve run 2, just as run 1 comes out can hardly help sales either.

Knowing the next one will fix the last ones issues immediately flipped the off switch on an £800 purchase for me.

 

But that it was even released with an elephant sized capacitor in the body of each coach was a mystifying decision… I cannot imagine no one saw it in testing ?

“Oh look theres a big black box in every coach”, “no.. Didnt see it”.

 

Another manufacturer also announced a miniaturised capacitor with a charge range in minutes, rather than seconds in their model, so clearly its not a technical issue…

Edited June 29, 2023 by adb968008

[HExpressD]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

But that it was even released with an elephant sized capacitor in the body of each coach was a mystifying decision… I cannot imagine no one saw it in testing ?

“Oh look theres a big black box in every coach”, “no.. Didnt see it”.

 

Another manufacturer also announced a miniaturised capacitor with a charge range in minutes, rather than seconds in their model, so clearly its not a technical issue…

I believe with the original release the larger capacitor was decided on as due to a component shortage there would have been an unspecified delay in release had they not. I guess they had to pick between hearing ‘Everything Hornby is always late’ or 'that's a bit big' and chose the latter.

[1andrew1]

22 hours ago, Ravenser said:

You've picked up on another example of the "everything else is a minor detail compared to OO" mentality that afflicts these discussions.

I do wonder if the corporate name Hornby plc might impact the company's share price as press coverage does tend to include pictures of model railways. Perhaps renaming the company might be beneficial, but to what I'm not sure. From the brand vision it could be Happiness Hobbies plc. 😀

[woodenhead]

28 minutes ago, 1andrew1 said:

I do wonder if the corporate name Hornby plc might impact the company's share price as press coverage does tend to include pictures of model railways. Perhaps renaming the company might be beneficial, but to what I'm not sure. From the brand vision it could be Happiness Hobbies plc. 😀

How about Triang

[The Stationmaster]

5 minutes ago, 1andrew1 said:

I do wonder if the corporate name Hornby plc might impact the company's share price as press coverage does tend to include pictures of model railways. Perhaps renaming the company might be beneficial, but to what I'm not sure. From the brand vision it could be Happiness Hobbies plc. 😀

What a fascinating thought.  Hornby as  brand name for model trains is undoubtedly a major selling point - many people still ask for'a Hornby set' rather than 'a train set' and thatt line continues into additional locos, coaches and so on.   So it is more than worthwhile for the model railway brand.

 

The big question you pose is the extent to which trust or valuing of that brand name transfers to other brands under the Hornby Group umbrella.  I would have thought that both Scalextric and Airfix are plenty well enough known by their names and the same might well be true about Corgi while a sector of the market will recognise Oxford Diecast and some will recognise the Humbrol brand.  

 

So the question is does the 'Hornby name add any value by association to any of those brands or does it, as you are wondering, have the opposite effect?  I think we might in any case be looking towards a greater emphasis on brands, and brand management, within Hornby Group.  And that might in turn heighten or sharpen distinction between them and the model railway brand name.  Could that in turn lead at somw time tp renaming the group? - I think anything is possible in a company which is in Hornby's situation and in any case it already has various names it could use - calling itself, for example, Hornby Hobbies or Hornby Industries or changing the Hornby word in those titles to something different.   

 

Time will tell and don't forget that while Raeburn was there the names of some other  companies changed.

[andyman7]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Telling everyone how they will improve run 2, just as run 1 comes out can hardly help sales either.

Knowing the next one will fix the last ones issues immediately flipped the off switch on an £800 purchase for me.

 

But that it was even released with an elephant sized capacitor in the body of each coach was a mystifying decision… I cannot imagine no one saw it in testing ?

“Oh look theres a big black box in every coach”, “no.. Didnt see it”.

 

Another manufacturer also announced a miniaturised capacitor with a charge range in minutes, rather than seconds in their model, so clearly its not a technical issue…

As noted above, the Capacitor issue was related to component shortages. But I'll happily compromise with Run 1 models when there's a couple of hundred quid to be saved.

[1andrew1]

17 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

How about Triang

Lol. I was thinking the first suggestion made would be Rovex. 😀

[Ravenser]

7 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

 

How many all new locos have we seen in the bargin bins? I was surprised to see the APT 7 car set on sale with a heavy discount recently. This is happening just before run 2 appears. I expected the initial run to have completely sold out. Yet if they did not, what chance has run 2 got when it eventually appears?

 

 

The short answer appears to be "not many". And if anything was going to end up there, I'm totally unsurprised it was the 7-car APT.

 

This was a train that never went into proper public service. A couple of sets spent a short period of shadow existence running trials north of Preston. At 7 cars , it was inevitably a very expensive item , and you'd need over 6' length just to put it on the track.

 

When DJM announced his crowd-funded APT project , I thought it was somewhere on the over-ambitious > unrealistic > delusional scale. When it failed with a few hundred people signed up, I was grimly unsurprised.

 

But I did raise an eyebrow when after the debacle SK announced that actually Hornby were going to tool one up from scratch. I didn't quite see how it could make commercial sense, and I thought it was perhaps unwise to wander into the smoking ruins of the DJM venture and promise handful of dreamers that they could have one after all, courtesy of Hornby .

 

And here it is in the bargain bin.

 

Did Hornby really make money on this one?

 

Someone earlier suggested that some of the comments about sales lookeed like criticism of SK:

Quote

This brand-led, customer-led, structured, approach to product selection is something that has not had enough focus in recent years and is a contributor to the current Inventory position.

 

Simon Kohler must be in his early 70s . He has flair , and every announcement seems to have its eyecatching and interesting left-field novelty. Hornby under SK has always had interesting new products. 

 

That may be what the Board are criticising. SK has been an aging showman, pulling intriguing rabbits out of a seemingly endless series of hats. It's just the rabbits often seem to leave a little pile of droppings on the warehouse floor.

 

But Gresley and Bulleid Pacifics rarely end up in the bargain bin . Its other things....

 

- new tooled APT

- W1

- HST set in "Blue Pullman" livery

- Steampunk

- Humbrol 3D printer

- eLink

- NBR generic 4+ 6 wheelers (how many NBR pregrouping modellers are there?)

- LNWR generics with completely the wrong panelling 

- A surplus of brakes

- Olympic stadium

 

(Note that only some of the generics end up in the bargain bin. It's not across the board)

 

The diecast locos may be rather more effective commercially , but things like a diecast prototype Deltic in retro Dublo boxes do rather reek of the silk handkerchief and the long ears clad in soft white fur.... How far should retro Triang trainsets be a staple??

 

I wonder if the Board is reacting against this sort of thing and muttering that a grey Chief Salesman who keeps talking about all the fascinating patterns he's  finding in his sales spreadsheets would be a refreshing change....

 

Given that we are now getting into some very niche subjects, how far should Hornby be following the KR Models business model and tooling up a string of one-offs like Duke of Gloucester Tornado, W1. P2s, Turbomotive, APT? Is that actually a good use of tooling investment?

 

And is this sort of "rabbit out of hat" stuff affecting other brands like Airfix and Scalextric?

 

Do they actually make much more money knocking out Railroad 66s and 31s and Airfix Vintage Classics?

 

[KeithMacdonald]

On 22/06/2023 at 10:37, BachelorBoy said:

Is this a hint that there will be Hornby shops?

 

They had one in Swindon in a busy shopping area. Then they closed it. Presumably unprofitable, or not in the business plan any more?

[andyman7]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

They had one in Swindon in a busy shopping area. Then they closed it. Presumably unprofitable, or not in the business plan any more?

More likely the critical factor would have been that the lease was up. The Outlet opened before their direct sales operation and the Hornby Visitor Centre in Margate

[BachelorBoy]

4 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

They had one in Swindon in a busy shopping area. Then they closed it. Presumably unprofitable, or not in the business plan any more?

 

Hornby might be influence by Tamiya stores in Asia.

 

https://www.tamiya-plamodelfactory.co.jp/info-shop-english/

[Legend]

10 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

They had one in Swindon in a busy shopping area. Then they closed it. Presumably unprofitable, or not in the business plan any more?

You mean this months business plan?

[CUCKOO LINE]

11 hours ago, andyman7 said:

More likely the critical factor would have been that the lease was up. The Outlet opened before their direct sales operation and the Hornby Visitor Centre in Margate

It never had a brilliant selection, aimed more at the remainder stock to sell off, although it was starting to sell a wider selection towards the end.

[Watto1990]

Announced this morning that the Visitor Centre shop will be closing for several months for improvements - presumably we’ll be seeing the first of the new retail concept when it reopens? 
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid028YEamVbyrWdudZ5TbD48m7yWRtU4fRdDcaYEibv7QCSqeh1EHRVx8ADbS86ZrizLl&id=100057106555025

[Geep7]

21 hours ago, HExpressD said:

I believe with the original release the larger capacitor was decided on as due to a component shortage there would have been an unspecified delay in release had they not. I guess they had to pick between hearing ‘Everything Hornby is always late’ or 'that's a bit big' and chose the latter.

Another manufacturer of model railways, has had to delay one of their models due to issues sourcing components for a PCB. Rather than try and rush the model out, they decided to wait until they could get the correct PCB's manufactured and fitted. The extra delay is slightly frustrating, but understandable under the current global circumstances, and , relatively speaking, it really is only "toy trains". What this manufacturer did do, and I applaud, is inform their customers the reasons why there would be a delay and apologised for it, even though it's been out of their control.

 

If Hornby had come out and said, we're really sorry, but we've had to delay the APT for X months, otherwise we'd need to fit an over large capacitor (like some of the newer manufacturers have done), I think maybe we might have been slightly forgiving of a delay. That is assuming, of course, that Hornby actually had a choice in the matter. 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Watto1990 said:

Announced this morning that the Visitor Centre shop will be closing for several months for improvements - presumably we’ll be seeing the first of the new retail concept when it reopens? 
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid028YEamVbyrWdudZ5TbD48m7yWRtU4fRdDcaYEibv7QCSqeh1EHRVx8ADbS86ZrizLl&id=100057106555025

Is that after all the money that have spent on it or is it using up part of that money?