RAILS/Dapol New Class 88 in OO

[Brian-1c]

11 minutes ago, Adam1701D said:

This is an all-new loco and does not share any parts from the Class 68, despite looking very similar. The 88 is slightly longer than the 68 and, apart from the cab ends and bogies, not much else is the same. The Engineering Prototype is stunning, especially the roof detail.

Great stuff Adam, N gauge version next please.

[E100]

5 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

And in any case, a 93 is a very different looking animal to a 68/88, I doubt if there's much in common between them.

 

I have just looked again and you are quite right. As others have said the front end is clearly bespoke to DRS. I suspect internally they will share common features being both from the Euro Dual family and be quite similar in a few other ways e.g. bogies, not that this would create large efficiencies for a model manufacture. The 93/99 front end is very similar to some their European offerings.

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

It would be interesting to know the % of common CAD. Tooling will be new I expect as it's more practical to have one set together for a given loco, but at a component level I expect there'd be a fair amount of commonality, at least a very good start.

When it comes out, i’m sure some of us cant wait to see what its made of inside..

 

looking at the EP theres quite a few differences .. like the roof horns, around the wind screen wipers, cab door handles, bogie frames, whilst the 88 and 68 look similar at a distance, even going beyond the obvious panels, grills roof etc, the 68 and 88 are quite different at minute level too.

 

I always loved the inane levels of detail on the 68..,right down to different grab handles on the front (1 screw versus 3 screw ended variants).

 

so i’m excited by the 88.

 

I see two different logo styles on offer, in standard livery. I guess there cant be that many individual differences at this point ?

 

 

 

 

[d46037]

12 hours ago, Adam1701D said:

This is an all-new loco and does not share any parts from the Class 68, despite looking very similar. The 88 is slightly longer than the 68 and, apart from the cab ends and bogies, not much else is the same. The Engineering Prototype is stunning, especially the roof detail.

Various sources I have seen on the web and the platform 5 book state that both classes are 20.5 metres in length, so is that wrong?

[newbryford]

19 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Do we have a photo topic for the 88s? I've managed to take a surprising number of the 10 here in York (electric hauled non passenger trains are rare) including plenty of details. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/class88

 

Paul

 

 

Yes:

 

[Mike_Walker]

11 hours ago, E100 said:

 

I have just looked again and you are quite right. As others have said the front end is clearly bespoke to DRS. I suspect internally they will share common features being both from the Euro Dual family and be quite similar in a few other ways e.g. bogies, not that this would create large efficiencies for a model manufacture. The 93/99 front end is very similar to some their European offerings.

Two points, first the Class 93 is for the Rail Operations Group and second, we have yet to see exactly what GBRf's Class 99 will look like in the flesh.

[Adam1701D]

DRS own the rights to the Class 68/88 front end design, which is why the Class 93 and 99 have a more standard European look.

 

Looking at pictures of the 93, there are a lot of similarities to the 88, especially below the solebar. Cannot wait to see one in the flesh, so to speak.

[TomScrut]

36 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

Two points, first the Class 93 is for the Rail Operations Group and second, we have yet to see exactly what GBRf's Class 99 will look like in the flesh.

 

But the artists impressions do show it as having a similar front end to the 93 (and other EuroDuals) rather than the 68/88.

[E100]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

But the artists impressions do show it as having a similar front end to the 93 (and other EuroDuals) rather than the 68/88.

 

Yes this was my assumption but granted it is just that.

[G-BOAF]

 

16 hours ago, Adam1701D said:

This is an all-new loco and does not share any parts from the Class 68, despite looking very similar. The 88 is slightly longer than the 68 and, apart from the cab ends and bogies, not much else is the same. The Engineering Prototype is stunning, especially the roof detail.

 

4 hours ago, d46037 said:

Various sources I have seen on the web and the platform 5 book state that both classes are 20.5 metres in length, so is that wrong?

 

 

I had also thought they were dimensionally identical, being built on a common platform, and with the same bogies and traction equipment. Hence my question about the common chassis.

Given that DRS have had thoughts about converting 68s to 88s (and vice versa) I would imagine they might have a problem if the 88 was longer, since presumably the required equipment could then not fit into the more constrained space of the 68.

[Steadfast]

4 hours ago, d46037 said:

Various sources I have seen on the web and the platform 5 book state that both classes are 20.5 metres in length, so is that wrong?

Both classes 68 and 88 have 20.5 metres painted, well stickered, on the sides as the length over buffers. Class 93 is a little longer.

 

Jo

[Dixie Dean]

On 13/07/2023 at 16:42, Mike_Walker said:

And in any case, a 93 is a very different looking animal to a 68/88, I doubt if there's much in common between them.

I understand that the front will be slightly different due to the design bei g owned by DRS, but most of the loco "under the bonnet" will be very similar except with regards to the diesel engine (slightly larger) and the batteries.

[Sweetling Park]

I have placed an order for mine and will accompany the existing Class 68 DRS fleet that I have.

 

I have seen the real Class 88s paired with Class 68s so they obviously have interoperability.  If I transfer such a setup to the layout then it could add something a little bit different to the normal workings.

[newbryford]

47 minutes ago, Sweetling Park said:

I have placed an order for mine and will accompany the existing Class 68 DRS fleet that I have.

 

I have seen the real Class 88s paired with Class 68s so they obviously have interoperability.  If I transfer such a setup to the layout then it could add something a little bit different to the normal workings.

 

There are a few pics out there of 88s on diesel power in multi with 68s on railtours. 

88004/68016 1Z40  Appleby-Newport 12/8/17 (my pic)

Edited July 16, 2023 by newbryford

[Gilbert]

1 minute ago, newbryford said:

 

There are a few pics out there of 88s on diesel power in multi with 68s on railtours. 

and on the normal DRS stuff as well.

Berkeley

Chris H

[Sweetling Park]

Thank you @newbryford and @Gilbert for sharing your photos.  I have only seen the 88s on freight workings, such as intermodal and FNA trains (paired with a 68), but not railtours so that gives me something to think about modelling wise.

 

Regarding the model, I understand that the sound fitted models will use a Zimo PluX22 decoder, as opposed to the 21 pin MTC decoder (ESU? Imperium?) used on the sound fitted 68s.  I assume the PluX22 decoder is being used to facilitate additional outputs/functionality, such as the servo for the pantograph and the different sound profiles (electric and diesel)?

[TomScrut]

3 hours ago, Sweetling Park said:

I have seen the real Class 88s paired with Class 68s so they obviously have interoperability.

 

As far as I am aware, an 88 can control all driving aspects of a 68, but the 68 is limited in what it can do with the bi mode aspect of the 88. I expect that is why most pics of them working in dual have the 88 at the front, at least where the electrical aspect of the 88 is likely to be needed.

[Sweetling Park]

25 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

As far as I am aware, an 88 can control all driving aspects of a 68, but the 68 is limited in what it can do with the bi mode aspect of the 88. I expect that is why most pics of them working in dual have the 88 at the front, at least where the electrical aspect of the 88 is likely to be needed.

Thanks @TomScrut, that makes sense.  I suspected that the 68 would lack the controls/TCMS options to change the power mode on the 88, thus it is more benefical to have the 88 on the leading end as you then have the means to control both power modes.

[Craig1989]

Apart from the flasks, boxes and charter trains have the 88s been used on any other freight trains? 
 

cheers Craig 

[TomScrut]

Just now, Craig1989 said:

Apart from the flasks, boxes and charter trains have the 88s been used on any other freight trains? 
 

cheers Craig 

 

They used to be used on the Doncaster-Millerhill engineering trains on the ECML, when DRS had the contract. Seems absurd to me (probably me being ignorant) that Colas got the contract for this and put 56s on it after DRS had been using brand new bi modes for it.

 

Pic from Flickr:

 

 

 

[4630]

16 minutes ago, Craig1989 said:

Apart from the flasks, boxes and charter trains have the 88s been used on any other freight trains? 
 

cheers Craig 

Not exactly freight, but an 88 has been used on Rail Head Treatment Trains.  
 

 

[phil-b259]

11 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

They used to be used on the Doncaster-Millerhill engineering trains on the ECML, when DRS had the contract. Seems absurd to me (probably me being ignorant) that Colas got the contract for this and put 56s on it after DRS had been using brand new bi modes for it.

 

 

 

Network Rail - like all Government bodies is under enormous pressure to accept the cheapest quote when issuing contracts.

 

Also as anyone who has ever had to renew their broadband, energy, insurance, etc will testify the usual situation is you get a better price by switching rather than staying with your previous supplier.

 

Given Freight operators have long had issues with how much NR sell electricity for, plus the need for DRS to recoup their investment in their locos it doesn't strike me as that difficult that Colas were able to put in a cheaper quote and thus got given the contract.

 

Yes its not good for the environment but given the huge pressure from HM Treasury on Government bodies to 'get value for the taxpayer' its not exactly a surprise that environmental issues were ignored...

[TomScrut]

1 minute ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Network Rail - like all Government bodies is under enormous pressure to accept the cheapest quote when issuing contracts.

 

I get that, I just find it a bit ridiculous that there's no penalties or incentives to try and get things moving in the "right" direction. The amount of effort government departments want to put into replacing 5 year old diesel cars with electric cars yet seem happy enough for 40+ year old diesel locos to be spewing smoke up and down the mainline. Same applies to HSTs.

[Simon Bendall]

1 hour ago, Craig1989 said:

Apart from the flasks, boxes and charter trains have the 88s been used on any other freight trains? 

 

They appear every now and then on the Carlisle-Crewe infrastructure circuit https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=88 6k05

[newbryford]

9 hours ago, Simon Bendall said:

 

They appear every now and then on the Carlisle-Crewe infrastructure circuit https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=88 6k05

 

Typically, they were on 6K05 via the WCML  when DRS were short of power due to RHTT demands, yet 88s have also done a couple of turns on RHTT workings.

( Goes to find my pic of the first working on 3J11) 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by newbryford