Bernard Lamb Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 5 minutes ago, black and decker boy said: Scratch That. This has appeared on the WCRC website this afternoon. https://westcoastrailways.co.uk/news/important-announcement-the-jacobite They really are deluded but seem unable / unwilling to recognise that and the wording of that release is inflammatory and an exaggeration of the truth & process involved and omits the fact they only applied last week or so for the exemption. They still think that they should be given an exemption certificate. If they had apologized for not being able to run the service until they had completed the work on a CDL system, I would have had a little more respect for them. Exemptions should only be for special cases and for a very limited time. At one time I carried out Quality Audits and I can assure every one that if a deviation had been reported on one occassion and not fixed by the next visit, they would have been shut down on the spot. Back then my boss would have backed me. If any company even thought about taking legal action that would have been the end of them. They seem to still be pushing their luck. Sadly it is setting a bad example to others. Bernard 5 8 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 59 minutes ago, black and decker boy said: No trains have been cancelled by WCRC due to a lack of CDL and a movement is in RTT for the Jacobite stock. Lots of hints of MK1s being fitted with CDL at Carnforth so let’s not panic and jump to conclusions It did have a negative effect last year when it all kicked off. I hope this year works a treat for all involved this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 20 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20 29 minutes ago, arran said: It did have a negative effect last year when it all kicked off. I hope this year works a treat for all involved this season https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz7z6xnpyn6o And before all the WCR apologists start saying how terrible it is maybe they should pause to consider that had the ORR inspector found that the requirements were being fully compiled with by WCR last year then its likely that an exemption for this year would be granted. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted March 20 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20 (edited) Brinksmanship? A sort of emotional blackmail? Manipulation of the press? I can’t see the ORR being swayed by any of that. Edited March 20 by BoD 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted March 20 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20 4 minutes ago, BoD said: Brinksmanship? A sort of emotional blackmail? Manipulation of the press? I can’t see the ORR being swayed by any of that. It's unbelievable 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted March 20 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20 (edited) I would have thought that it would just make the ORR dig their heels in more.... I know I would. Andy G Maybe they'll have another lawsuit over this as well? Edited March 20 by uax6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted March 20 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20 2 hours ago, black and decker boy said: Lots of hints of MK1s being fitted with CDL at Carnforth so let’s not panic and jump to conclusions Come on, this is RMweb! 2 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardbealach Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, black and decker boy said: Scratch That. This has appeared on the WCRC website this afternoon. https://westcoastrailways.co.uk/news/important-announcement-the-jacobite They really are deluded but seem unable / unwilling to recognise that and the wording of that release is inflammatory and an exaggeration of the truth & process involved and omits the fact they only applied last week or so for the exemption. I see in the rest if the website for WCR that has been noted by black and decker boy that WCR have a job advert on its 'Careers' page seeking stewards for the Jacobite. (Alisdair) Edited March 20 by ardbealach spelling correction 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 31 minutes ago, BoD said: Brinksmanship? A sort of emotional blackmail? Manipulation of the press? I can’t see the ORR being swayed by any of that. I think its all of those things, just wait until it gets on the news about there being no Harry Pooter steam train in the Scotland this year and all those disappointed tourists giving interviews about the big nasty men in grey suits in London. My cynical head thinks its an attempt to get politicians and tourism leaders to put pressure on the ORR, although I would be surprised if it was successful. Mind you it's the same head that told me it was a great idea to marry Mrs Boris and that has brought so many bruises... 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 20 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20 1 minute ago, Boris said: it was a great idea to marry Mrs Boris and that has brought so many bruises... Yes, but has she got CDL or an Exemption Cert? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted March 20 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20 Notice too in the BBC article, there is no mention of: a) Why WCRC lost their current exemption. b) WCRC taking the ORR to court and losing. Still peddling the 'innocent victim of unreasonable beaurocracy' line to the media, despite being on the wrong end of about three separate (but connected) legal processes 🙄 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 To say its outwith thier control is an outright lie. It was within their control to fit CDL they just chose not to. 3 6 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 20 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20 48 minutes ago, BoD said: Brinksmanship? A sort of emotional blackmail? Manipulation of the press? I can’t see the ORR being swayed by any of that. Now featured on the BBC News App. Essentially it’s become a PR standoff with WCRC portrayed as the wronged party by “ a spokesperson “ . No response as yet from the other side.You have to wonder exactly how such a response ( should there be one ) would read. Pure gamesmanship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 20 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20 3 minutes ago, keefer said: Notice too in the BBC article, there is no mention of: a) Why WCRC lost their current exemption. b) WCRC taking the ORR to court and losing. Still peddling the 'innocent victim of unreasonable beaurocracy' line to the media, despite being on the wrong end of about three separate (but connected) legal processes 🙄 There is now - the ORR have responded with their response added to the article. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 20 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20 1 minute ago, Ian Hargrave said: Now featured on the BBC News App. Essentially it’s become a PR standoff with WCRC portrayed as the wronged party by “ a spokesperson “ . No response as yet from the other side.You have to wonder exactly how such a response ( should there be one ) would read. Pure gamesmanship. The BBC News article has been updated 5 minutes ago to include a response from the ORR 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted March 20 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20 Seems like a lot of teddy tossing and willy waving going on. If they want to play with their trainset, the must do it by the rules the same as everyone else. 3 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted March 20 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20 This is how West Coast put the position on their website: "The vintage carriages that we use on the Jacobite Steam Train trip require a central door locking exemption certificate in order to run on the mainline railway network. In past years this has been automatically granted, however this year that has not been the case and a more detailed application has had to be submitted. "[my bold] https://westcoastrailways.co.uk/news/important-announcement-the-jacobite With a statement like that I think it is now only a matter of time until the inevitable demise of WCRC occurs. I sincerely hope it does not involve anyone getting hurt. 1 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 3 minutes ago, John M Upton said: Seems like a lot of teddy tossing and willy waving going on. If they want to play with their trainset, the must do it by the rules the same as everyone else. Exactly, I'm allowed to willy wave OR play with the trainset. I can't get the wife to do either. 27 minutes ago, Oldddudders said: Yes, but has she got CDL or an Exemption Cert? Only on the bedroom door when I have to sleep on the sofa 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted March 20 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20 8 minutes ago, phil-b259 said: There is now - the ORR have responded with their response added to the article. Thanks for that Phil. A rather non-committal response from ORR, I'd have expected them to reveal a bit more as to why the exemption failed. After all, a legal Improvement/Prohibition Notice and Judicial Review are pretty significant reasons! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted March 20 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20 (edited) So predictable. so which politician will roll up first ? que next the hardluck business stories from FW. Sensibly the nrm kept 4472 out of service, otherwise that would be linked to this news story as well. The article does highlight the low of both parties toward each other. Edited March 20 by adb968008 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) 26 minutes ago, keefer said: Thanks for that Phil. A rather non-committal response from ORR, I'd have expected them to reveal a bit more as to why the exemption failed. After all, a legal Improvement/Prohibition Notice and Judicial Review are pretty significant reasons! I think the ORR quote on the BBC is pretty robust An ORR spokesperson said they warned all heritage operators "several years ago" that their trains had to either seek an exemption or be compliant with the rules after 31 March. "West Coast Railway's application for an exemption failed and they made a claim for judicial review. A temporary exemption was granted in order to maintain the status quo, enabling WCR to operate whilst the litigation reached a conclusion," they said. “Despite this, WCR chose to sell tickets when it was far from certain that a new application for an exemption would be granted, either in time for the commencement of services or at all. "It submitted an exemption application on 8 March, which we are now assessing. ORR is disappointed that WCR appears not to have made sensible contingency plans for the benefit of their customers.” EDIT: just checked the official guidance for an exemption application and clause 7.3 says ORR have up to 4months from date all necessary information is received to assess and determine an application. WCRC seemingly wanted it done in less than 3 weeks!!!!! Edited March 20 by black and decker boy Extra info 7 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted March 20 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20 (edited) 20 minutes ago, adb968008 said: que next the hardluck business stories from FW. We can all justifiably criticise WCRC’s actions before now and how they have gone about this recently , but let’s not forget there will be a knock on effect and some genuine ‘hard luck’ stories. Whether that be disappointed punters, WCRC staff, or businesses (in the whole region and not just FW) they don’t deserve this but do deserve sympathy. Edited March 20 by BoD 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted March 20 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20 Theres a game of chess here. The statement by wcrc is the contingency. The passengers are pawns. The people of FW are pawns The American tourists on the news are pawns. The Scottish tourism industry is a pawn And unfortunately in the eyes of public opinion, government agencies never do well, even if they are right. They could have run a diesel and mk2’s, but the PR backlash would goto WCRC. By canceling publically, it sets up another us vs them fight. I watch for the next moves. The GBR tour of Britain is up soon… i remember the last time that turned to farce. is this going to be the Tangmere tour of Britain ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 11 minutes ago, adb968008 said: Theres a game of chess here. The statement by wcrc is the contingency. The passengers are pawns. The people of FW are pawns The American tourists on the news are pawns. The Scottish tourism industry is a pawn And unfortunately in the eyes of public opinion, government agencies never do well, even if they are right. They could have run a diesel and mk2’s, but the PR backlash would goto WCRC. By canceling publically, it sets up another us vs them fight. I watch for the next moves. The GBR tour of Britain is up soon… i remember the last time that turned to farce. is this going to be the Tangmere tour of Britain ? Why do they need a diesel? All the Jacobite steamers are fitted with air brakes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted March 20 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20 (edited) 45 minutes ago, black and decker boy said: I think the ORR quote on the BBC is pretty robust What I meant was, the ORR are stating the 'what' but there's no mention of the 'why'. A few lines mentioning exactly what WCRC did to lose their exemption in the first place, and the result of the JR would hopefully let the general public see that this whole situation is entirely of WCRC's own doing. I think it's in everyone's interest that the WCRC 'poor me' defence is shut down and shown exactly for what it is - a complete sham. They are going for every ounce of sympathy and will no doubt mention all the real folk who are going to suffer as a result of this, while carefully failing to mention the serious safety breaches (and further subsequent refusal to comply), by them, that led us to where we are. Edited March 20 by keefer 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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