Hornby 2023 Annual Report

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Rails seems to have managed pretty well without Hornby. Every now and again, I forgot and would go to the website to check price and picture of some new Hornby offering! All the same, it can only be of benefit to Rails to be able to stock the products of one of the “big two”. Likewise, it can only be of benefit to Hornby to have what must, by now, be the biggest retailer in the country stocking its products. Let’s hope that Hornby has put an end to last-minute cutbacks to retailers.

 

Agreed that Rails’ service is excellent. If there’s a problem with a model, a reply-paid label is e-mailed to return the offending article. Can’t say fairer than that.

 

Have they though?

 

I would have thought that Hornby was one of their biggest sellers previous to the bust up. All for a pretty average model of a Terrier that soon disappeared!

 

Oh, lets look at what Rails are now selling....

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/class-a1-terrier-0-6-0t-d-s-680-in-br-departmental-black-steam-locomotive

 

 

 

BTW Rails are a fraction of the size that Hattons are. They're not even close to being the biggest retailer in the North!

 

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/05131251-hattons-model-railways-limited

 

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/09068081-rails-of-sheffield-limited

 

 

 

Jason

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Does that just apply to TT though?

 

Announcement next week ISTR.

 

 

Jason

I understand - from 'an informed source'  - that it totally replaces the 'back to the '70s' annual announcement binge together with its associated ordering scramble.  I have been told - and I treat that information as being in confidence so I can't repeat it here -  the currently planned frequency of announcements over the year.

 

I understand that a catalogue will be continued but it will include much wider information and things rather than simply listing available models and those announced by its time of publication.  So my thoughts are that it might be something more akin to a 'Hornby Book of Trains' rather than the style of recent catalogues?

[woodenhead]

Spacing announcements not only removes the mad scamble but also the disappointment of items being moved or cancelled due to changed circumstances.

 

As all the other companies have found there is nothing worse then a massive delay or a cancellation of a project, much better to wait until they've reached a stage of late EP or decorated samples when you know it is a definite product.  I wonder if this method will also make it easier for Hornby to accomodate increases in production numbers should pre-orders outstrip expectations.

[maico]

7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

 

 

 

 

BTW Rails are a fraction of the size that Hattons are. They're not even close to being the biggest retailer in the North!

 

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/05131251-hattons-model-railways-limited

 

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/09068081-rails-of-sheffield-limited

 

 

 

Jason

 

That Edole report says Rails as 49 employees (+ 9 from previous year) vs 58 Hattons.

Edited October 5, 2023 by maico

[spamcan61]

5 hours ago, woodenhead said:

  I wonder if this method will also make it easier for Hornby to accomodate increases in production numbers should pre-orders outstrip expectations.

I would expect the opposite, if (big if) they go for the Bachmann strategy of announcing pretty much when the products are on the boat. 

[spamcan61]

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 So my thoughts are that it might be something more akin to a 'Hornby Book of Trains' rather than the style of recent catalogues?

They could take a look at the Peco catalogue, which provides much more useful general information for newcomers to the hobby than Hornby's endless digital renders.

[adb968008]

6 hours ago, woodenhead said:

  I wonder if this method will also make it easier for Hornby to accomodate increases in production numbers should pre-orders outstrip expectations.

Depends when they announce what… if they announce next week something new for christmas, then its already been made and arriving.

 

But if its like the 2MT and announced 3 years before arrival, i’m not sure if announcing it in January or any other month that year makes a difference compared to how its done now.

Edited October 5, 2023 by adb968008

[woodenhead]

If they display at EP stage like Accurascale then I think they can adjust volumes, clearly if it's at final decoration and there is a production run already underway then much less likely.

 

Obviously with the Bachmann model then literally the ship has sailed 😄

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, woodenhead said:

If they display at EP stage like Accurascale then I think they can adjust volumes, clearly if it's at final decoration and there is a production run already underway then much less likely.

 

Obviously with the Bachmann model then literally the ship has sailed 😄

I do wonder if some mdels will still be restricted to a particular number ina production run.  Even with pre-orders there s still the problem of getting the numbers right for returns and defects etc plus being able to afford to hold anything instock.  It mat y well make sense to 'balance the books' on development etc costs but nt orde quantities way beyond that,

 

At present we simply do not know what will happen with new models etc until it happens.

[jjb1970]

I would vote for the Bachmann approach,  announced when the models are about to hit the shelves if asked.

[adb968008]

Maybe one route is a core railroad range, that neednt change that much.

 

And a collectors limited edition range in the blue boxes.

Cut out the middle.

 

To me Turbomotive could have been a collectors model, I personally doubt its long term potential after these first runs, same for models like the W1 etc. 

 

This is where I think Hornby got itself in a muddle… going the Brawa approach for unusual stuff to me makes sense.

 

Mid range stuff i’m not sure is Hornbys niche anymore, theyve certainly lost it in modern image.

Edited October 7, 2023 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

11 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Maybe one route is a core railroad change, that neednt change that much.

 

And a collectors limited edition range in the blue boxes.

Cut out the middle.

 

To me Turbomotive could have been a collectors model, I personally doubt its long term potential after these first runs, same for models like the W1 etc. 

 

This is where I think Hornby got itself in a muddle… going the Brawa approach for unusual stuff to me makes sense.

 

Mid range stuff i’m not sure is Hornbys niche anymore, theyve certainly lost it in modern image.

Lot of sense in that I thgink.  Hornby still havea mess of ranges for 00 locos and it needs to be sorted to create much clearer marketing (and possibly pricing?).   Mid range they seem almost to have given up except for re-runs of existing  tooling.  So if they want more than one target market in 00 they need to more clearluy separate the identities of those markets - HD for hi-fi locos and rolling stock; 'Horrnby' for the middling range in so far as it continures; Railroad for  a cheaper targetted market might be the way to go?

 

And they need to make sure that whatever they offer as a 'limited edition' is exactly what it says on the box and not go round increasing the run if it starts to sell well.  They clearly need to get a better understanding of that particular market area and now they have the opportunity to do that

[AY Mod]

24 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Lot of sense in that I think.

 

True, but how long would they leave it so? There are numerous instances where a new release sits somewhere between previously defined boundaries or gets additional or reduced treatment to move from one to another creating confusion from an intent to wring a bit more from an existing product.

 

Market segmentation, especially over the last decade, has never been a strong point there.

[adb968008]

That was my thought on the 2MT, it would have been perfect in Hornbys range 5-10 years ago. I’m not quite sure it belongs there now, even if its a really good model, indeed its a fantastically engineered model, maybe their best yet, but is it still Hornby ? 

 

Turbomotive is a step up above it, but its presented in the same main range, but yet so is the class 153.. which is definitely down market.

 

The Battle of Tyne dock could have been fought differently if Hornby put their 9f in a HD box with a certificate.

 

Where could it go next ?

 

i’m not sure HD is one for mundaners, its more for big numbers.. so power class 6,7,8&9s to escalate to a higher level, previously modelled popular ranges at a higher price point reflecting that some modellers wont upgrade.

 

In addition to not moving the goal posts on edition quantities, not over cooking the range is a consideration too… to many, too often has always been a Hornby problem.

 

The trouble with the railroad steam end, is much of it is a little too old, if they could downgrade some early Chinese era steam  it puts the airgap between detailed new and detailed old, but breathes life back into railroad.

 

As for modern image, some diesels could find a market in metal bodies, Trix has done very well with that in Germany. I know i’d sit up and pay attention at a metal bodied 08, HST power car for instance. Diesels, well its hard to argue Hornby hasnt got this nailed in railroad already, but I do think this is home to the future, and some modern railroad units should really be here, inc 755.

Edited October 7, 2023 by adb968008

[PeterStiles]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

long term potential after these first runs, same for models like the W1 etc. 

But Hornby appear to have done about three dozen different variations of the W1, and I'm sure they'd have stepped back if the first six or so variants failed to sell well..

[adb968008]

20 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

But Hornby appear to have done about three dozen different variations of the W1, and I'm sure they'd have stepped back if the first six or so variants failed to sell well..

It all depends on how many were made in each batch doesnt it ?

 

How many W1’s do you have ?

i’d wager not many have 2 or more.

[BachelorBoy]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

And they need to make sure that whatever they offer as a 'limited edition' is exactly what it says on the box and not go round increasing the run if it starts to sell well.  They clearly need to get a better understanding of that particular market area and now they have the opportunity to do that

 

I agree. But I also wonder why trading standards or someone can't stop them from doing it?

 

 

[cctransuk]

6 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

I agree. But I also wonder why trading standards or someone can't stop them from doing it?

 

 

 

Probably because they think - with some justification IMHO - that anyone buying toy trains on the basis of them being a 'Limited Edition'; ie. as an investment; deserves all they get!

 

If there remains a market for a model after the initial rush of 'collectors', by all means make more. Artificial scarcity of new product is a total nonsense.

 

CJI.

[adb968008]

6 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

If there remains a market for a model after the initial rush of 'collectors', by all means make more. Artificial scarcity of new product is a total nonsense.

 

Diamonds industry only exists because of this.

A few oil sheiks may also agree.

Finally spare a thought for those who like platinum…oh how the might metal fell…

 

The way to make money is to make 1 less than your demand requires… Accurascale have learnt that technique really well.

Edited October 7, 2023 by adb968008

[BachelorBoy]

19 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Probably because they think - with some justification IMHO - that anyone buying toy trains on the basis of them being a 'Limited Edition'; ie. as an investment; deserves all they get!

 

 

Interesting angle from America. Judge didn't seem to think "limited edition" meant much.

 

 

https://observer.com/2013/03/judge-dismisses-collectors-lawsuit-against-william-eggleston/

 

[60027Merlin]

When a person who may not know too much about the hobby walks in to a Model Railway shop and views the Hornby and Bachmann loco products there is a marked difference to be seen in the colour of the boxes distinguishing each of these two manufacturers. In addition, for the person who is au fait with the set up, Bachmann Blue Riband is all there is from them and is in the super detail end of the market thus they then know what the brand standard is.

 

When it comes to Hornby that is different as Super Detail and Railroad are in the same colour and style. Therefore for the person with his/her youngster looking to purchase something from Hornby they have no indication what it is they are looking for until they ask the price. At an exhibition about 5years ago on a box shifter stand, there was a Hornby A4 which had noted in the facing underneath the clear plastic “Super Detail”. When I remarked to the chap behind the table that I did not realize that they had released that particular A4 in Super Detail he replied that it was a Railroad version. I mentioned the front facing description to him and he was totally confused as would prospective purchasers be.

 

It was pointed out many times to those at the Hornby stand at various exhibitions that there should be a clear differential in the Super Detail and Railroad ranges by having a different colour/style of box so that the two distinct markets were immediately apparent but to no avail. Of course there is the range for the quite young market as well which is quite different from the other two brands.

 

No doubt Hornby are looking at their different markets just now and deciding how to manage and market them regarding the level of detail etc. A starting point is to ensure the various brand ranges are immediately apparent to prospective purchasers.

[Johan DC]

9 minutes ago, 60027Merlin said:

 

 

It was pointed out many times to those at the Hornby stand at various exhibitions that there should be a clear differential in the Super Detail and Railroad ranges by having a different colour/style of box so that the two distinct markets were immediately apparent but to no avail. Of course there is the range for the quite young market as well which is quite different from the other two brands.

 

No doubt Hornby are looking at their different markets just now and deciding how to manage and market them regarding the level of detail etc. A starting point is to ensure the various brand ranges are immediately apparent to prospective purchasers.

For me, the difference is very clear.  Railroad is more yellow than red, you can see inside the box, it's also clearly printed 'Railroad'. 

What Hornby put in the range vs. Regular however is less clear, for instance the class 66 should, but isn't.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

The one thing Hornby has is its name. 

Most folks have heard of Hornby (and Airfix too), so if buying something for little Johnny (other names available), then that would be their "go to product" - as they say nowadays.

[Markwj]

On 05/10/2023 at 14:58, Steamport Southport said:

 

Does that just apply to TT though?

 

Announcement next week ISTR.

 

 

Jason

Hi Jason

can’t find anything to say there is an announcement next week, do you know what day and where did you hear it?

cheers

mark

[AY Mod]

34 minutes ago, Markwj said:

Hi Jason

can’t find anything to say there is an announcement next week, do you know what day and where did you hear it?

cheers

mark

 

There was to be a briefing this week but it's postponed.