Hornby 2023 Annual Report

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

Progress made in reducing 'aged stock' but inventory currently remains high due to stock build  ahead of Autumn sales peak and expected to unwind over the Christmas period.

 

Whats due between now and christmas ?

 

2MT, Turbomotive, anything else ?

 

If inventory is high, are these are “on the books” and in warehouse awaiting release ?.. next question is why wait ?

and follow up, quantities should be known, so retailers should be confortable ?

 

if not in stock, then what stocks are they building… trainsets, racing sets ?.. but then whatever it was, last years over stocking must not have been the same, if they are buying more now ?

 

Personally I think another rate rise soon, will kill family spending on toys this Christmas… mortgages and kids are a direct line. Retired collectors once again become the fall back.

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Whats due between now and christmas ?

 

2MT, Turbomotive, anything else ?

 

If inventory is high, are these are “on the books” and in warehouse awaiting release ?.. next question is why wait ?

and follow up, quantities should be known, so retailers should be confortable ?

 

if not in stock, then what stocks are they building… trainsets, racing sets ?.. but then whatever it was, last years over stocking must not have been the same, if they are buying more now ?

 

Personally I think another rate rise soon, will kill family spending on toys this Christmas… mortgages and kids are a direct line. Retired collectors once again become the fall back.

 

Presumably some TT120 to come as well but otherwise like you I wonder what is meant or whether it's just the 'traditional item' fora report at this time of year?

 

And an interesting Special Resolution passed at the AGM - No.13 on the list (so lucky for some[one] maybe?) -

99.96% in favour = 154, 936,202 shares; 0.042% against = 65,124 shares on a 91.26% turnout of shares eligible to vote

 

'To authorise the Company to make market purchases of a maximum number of 16,985,377 ordinary shares.'  

Or to put it another way  that is 10% of the currently issued shares.  

 

Interestingly there was also a Special Resolution to disapply pre-emptive rights followed by an additional Special Resolution to disapply pre-emptive rights. (not sure why there were two but one might apply to the group and the other to the company?     Taken together, or separately, these three resolutions might be taken as an indication of the way the majority shareholders see things going  - or at least able to go?

[MidlandRed]

19 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Whats due between now and christmas ?

 

2MT, Turbomotive, anything else ?

Quite a lot I think - I received a BR blue GUV the other day - quite interesting that I’ve been looking for a used Bachmann one for a couple of years - some appeared on EBay within a week or so of me receiving the new Hornby one - I bid on two or three but they were getting up into the £50 plus area so I was outbid on all - and there were multiple bidders and 30 + watching!! Who said transition era and pre TOPS BR blue was not popular!!! Sometimes I liken myself (with a keen ness on pre TOPS and slight disdain for the multi colour, multi livery, lack of headcode, light festooned privatisation models) with older guys in the 1960s who seemed to despise anything in BR livery, wanting Edwardian and Georgian era liveries only) 😁
 

Back on topic - I’m awaiting a Hornby 88DS BR Departmental but aren’t there others? Consett 9F, Coronation Pacific etc)? 
 

Of course, the difference with this and some of the other makers is you don’t have to/are not encouraged to pay up front, neither with direct sales or big box dealers - so late arrivals (the 88DS was due in spring 2023) would make a significant difference to Hornby’s income and that is probably what they’re referring to. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by MidlandRed

[Fireline]

On 13/09/2023 at 21:13, adb968008 said:

Whats due between now and christmas ?

 

2MT, Turbomotive, anything else ?

 

 

 

 

I dare say there will be some Corgi, some Airfix, and some Scalextric. On here we tend to focus on Hornby, for obvious reasons, but there are a number of brands that could come in, and need to be sold.

[Mike Harvey]

8 hours ago, Fireline said:

 

I dare say there will be some Corgi, some Airfix, and some Scalextric. On here we tend to focus on Hornby, for obvious reasons, but there are a number of brands that could come in, and need to be sold.

From my observations there are still a very large number of the continental railway brands’ autumn deliveries to come……Arnold, Electrotren, Lima, Jouef, Rivarossi etc. and some of the smaller accessory brands too.

[The Stationmaster]

The outstanding railway model deliveries raise a question in my mind.  If we consider the hi-fi models such as the Standard 78XXX or the Turbomotive plus various othesr I wonder to what extent 'Christmas' is relevant as.a factor in sales?   No doubt there will be some which are on Christmas present lists but surely the vast majority of these models will be going to the modeller and collector markets rather than the 'toy' market?

 

This leaves me wondering if Hornby are missing a trick here by aiming this stiff into the (over)crowded Christmas toy market when they would be better off trying to spread the return on these sort of models over their year?  I do appreciate that part of the current 'bulge' in expected arrivals might well have been forced on them by the situation in China with both further pandemic restrictions and some very adverse weather but I do wonder if they're still tied in to their traditional 'toy market' approach?   The outmoded 'annual announcement, and subsequent trade ordering frenzy strikes me as more a reflection of that sort of market rather than the way others have gone by spreading announcements to a situation where they announce when they are ready to announce and thereby spread, and presumably simplify, the handling of trade orders and so on. 

 

Provided Hornby announce the right things in their various ranges for lot of them it hardly matters when they are announced if they have got their marketing right.  Some items will undoubtedly be more suited to the toy market with its Christmas peak but that is an area which - judging by other companies results - is being hard hit by increases in the cost of living and interest rates etc.  The collector/modeller market area, and no doubt enthusiasts for Airfix and Scalextric, seems to be working in a different way although it then becomes important to offer the right things at the right prices to keep a positive bottom line.

[Legend]

I wonder how they will approach the new year ?  Will we have the “big bang” announcement  or will they announce things during the year . I think there will be a catalogue of some sorts . It was a bit of a disaster when they didn’t produce one ( was that 2016?)  Hoping for a bit of a revamp all round 

[spamcan61]

17 minutes ago, Legend said:

I wonder how they will approach the new year ?  Will we have the “big bang” announcement  or will they announce things during the year . I think there will be a catalogue of some sorts . It was a bit of a disaster when they didn’t produce one ( was that 2016?)  Hoping for a bit of a revamp all round 

It will indeed be interesting to see if there's still a last century style "big bang" announcement. Personally I found the 2016 'handbook' a far more interesting and useful publication than the usual vast catalogue of digital renders that may or may not bear some resemblance to the finished product if/when that turns up. I suspect I'm in the minority though.

[No Decorum]

18 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

It will indeed be interesting to see if there's still a last century style "big bang" announcement. Personally I found the 2016 'handbook' a far more interesting and useful publication than the usual vast catalogue of digital renders that may or may not bear some resemblance to the finished product if/when that turns up. I suspect I'm in the minority though.

I like the catalogues but it’s partly habit. It often isn’t well done. Did anyone notice the picture of Cock o’ the North renumbered as Earl Marischal? I’m all for the “big bang”. Four times more exciting than Bachmann announcements? 🤣 Granted, Bachmann gives us a more accurate idea of what we can expect.

[jjb1970]

Personally I like the Bachmann approach to announcements. No froth or hype train, they make an announcement when the model is on its way and we can have a look and decide whether or not to buy it free of pre-ordering and stuff. I recognise there are issues with that approach too, particularly in terms of potential duplication, less time to budget for new releases etc but on balance I still like it best.

[ColinB]

On 17/09/2023 at 15:15, jjb1970 said:

Personally I like the Bachmann approach to announcements. No froth or hype train, they make an announcement when the model is on its way and we can have a look and decide whether or not to buy it free of pre-ordering and stuff. I recognise there are issues with that approach too, particularly in terms of potential duplication, less time to budget for new releases etc but on balance I still like it best.

Someone on the Hornby site said Hornby like to get the preorders so that they can work out whether it is worth making. I don't think I have seen a preorder where they didn't make it though, although sometimes it takes a long time.

[spamcan61]

Oooh an interesting, relevant snippet from the latest Hornby TT:120 magazine, from new brand manager Sarah Goodman:-

 

Sarah: We are changing how we announce models and instead of a range launch taking place once a year, we will make more announcements at regular intervals so that not only will this be more exciting, it will also mean that people do not have so long to wait for the items to arrive into stock

[ColinB]

7 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Oooh an interesting, relevant snippet from the latest Hornby TT:120 magazine, from new brand manager Sarah Goodman:-

 

Sarah: We are changing how we announce models and instead of a range launch taking place once a year, we will make more announcements at regular intervals so that not only will this be more exciting, it will also mean that people do not have so long to wait for the items to arrive into stock

It also means that they don't have to sell the product at the "pre order" price which in some cases, where it took 3 years to get to making the model, is 30% less than the current price. 

[The Meerkat]

20 minutes ago, ColinB said:

It also means that they don't have to sell the product at the "pre order" price which in some cases, where it took 3 years to get to making the model, is 30% less than the current price. 

 

i guest that one of the reasons why they stopping doing it once a year,  as i have saved at least £50 on the TPE class 800,

[MidlandRed]

On 16/09/2023 at 12:01, The Stationmaster said:

The outstanding railway model deliveries raise a question in my mind.  If we consider the hi-fi models such as the Standard 78XXX or the Turbomotive plus various othesr I wonder to what extent 'Christmas' is relevant as.a factor in sales?   No doubt there will be some which are on Christmas present lists but surely the vast majority of these models will be going to the modeller and collector markets rather than the 'toy' market?

 

This leaves me wondering if Hornby are missing a trick here by aiming this stiff into the (over)crowded Christmas toy market…..

@The Stationmaster I think much of the outstanding will be on pre-order, either directly or via dealers, but yet to be paid for - so they’ll be wanting to get it out as soon as it arrives, within reason - it will affect income significantly I’d guess - whether it comes out pre Christmas etc I guess will just be coincidence - and largely affected by the vagaries of Chinese manufacturing with the various events going on there which have/continue to affect production. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by MidlandRed

[ColinB]

1 hour ago, The Meerkat said:

 

i guest that one of the reasons why they stopping doing it once a year,  as i have saved at least £50 on the TPE class 800,

I suppose the other thing is would you buy it at the new price. Many of the locos I preordered I saved a fortune but then when I looked at the new price I definitely wasn't so keen. I bought the new Evening Star, I think I saved about £40, I was thinking of buying one of the black ones but the new price put me off. So I suppose that is another thing Hornby has to factor in, a great deal of people order early to "fix " the price, there again if you don't know it is coming until 3 months before delivery you only know the price then.

[The Meerkat]

1 hour ago, ColinB said:

I suppose the other thing is would you buy it at the new price. Many of the locos I preordered I saved a fortune but then when I looked at the new price I definitely wasn't so keen. I bought the new Evening Star, I think I saved about £40, I was thinking of buying one of the black ones but the new price put me off. So I suppose that is another thing Hornby has to factor in, a great deal of people order early to "fix " the price, there again if you don't know it is coming until 3 months before delivery you only know the price then.

 

no i dont think i would buy it at the new price, last time i looked it was £501 & if its anything like the pendolino  (im sorry brought that now couple years ago) i probs send it back

 

i pre order on the day or day or so after,  one to secure my item and 2 i know throughout the year Hornby put the prices up,    

[Pint of Adnams]

On 13/09/2023 at 21:13, adb968008 said:

Whats due between now and christmas ?

 

2MT, Turbomotive, anything else ?

 

If inventory is high, are these are “on the books” and in warehouse awaiting release ?.. next question is why wait ?

and follow up, quantities should be known, so retailers should be confortable ?

 

if not in stock, then what stocks are they building… trainsets, racing sets ?.. but then whatever it was, last years over stocking must not have been the same, if they are buying more now ?

 

Personally I think another rate rise soon, will kill family spending on toys this Christmas… mortgages and kids are a direct line. Retired collectors once again become the fall back.

 

Streamlined B17s, catalogue states Q4 and no news posted on RMWeb since July, no hints in the Engine Shed. LNER Coronation streamlined sets already pushed back until mid-2024.

 

Hornby might do better if it concentrated on less models at any given time rather than taking a scattergun approach.

[PaulG]

6 hours ago, Pint of Adnams said:

Streamlined B17s, catalogue states Q4 and no news post

Hornby website saying summer 2024 for streamlined B17. 

[Johan DC]

Of course, being innovative and having good products is not a guarantee for a succesfull business, but it helps. And Hornby has both the innovations and the good products in house. But there are also the PR fiasco's, QC issues (but that seems to be a problem for all producers AFAIK), an unclear strategy towards retailers, a lack of genuine interest in D&E locos...  Good foundations, but if they don't fix the roof, one day it'll be an empty shell. 

[Johan DC]

Someone is trying to fix/mend things, Rails is again an official stockist. 

I quite like that, even if it is only for sentimental reasons. It all started for me with some Hornby sets from Rails. 

 

 

[Legend]

13 minutes ago, Johan DC said:

Someone is trying to fix/mend things, Rails is again an official stockist. 

I quite like that, even if it is only for sentimental reasons. It all started for me with some Hornby sets from Rails. 

 

 

 Yes I note an email from Rails saying they will once again be stocking the full range .   Who knows, but a bit of a coincidence following the departure of SK ?     It does seem , as well , that Hattons are carrying the full range of items and have the ability to pre order - they are currently majoring on the new  improved 4 VEP.  We also haven't heard anything recently about Tiers !   Could it be that the whole sorry episode is behind us . I really hope so . With the demise of model shops around Glasgow Hattons and Rails are my local shops so its good if they carry full range. 

[ColinB]

11 hours ago, Johan DC said:

Someone is trying to fix/mend things, Rails is again an official stockist. 

I quite like that, even if it is only for sentimental reasons. It all started for me with some Hornby sets from Rails. 

 

 

I like dealing with Rails, I buy a lot of locos from them. I just get the opinion the new management of Hornby is trying to run it like a business so finding decent outlets for your products is a must. Forget whether you like them or not, it is business. Then there is the fact that Rails will fix the minor issues without sending it back to Hornby as they seem to have a decent technical department. They are also good at drumming up sales. Hornby need to make money fast, the banks won't finance them forever.

[No Decorum]

Rails seems to have managed pretty well without Hornby. Every now and again, I forgot and would go to the website to check price and picture of some new Hornby offering! All the same, it can only be of benefit to Rails to be able to stock the products of one of the “big two”. Likewise, it can only be of benefit to Hornby to have what must, by now, be the biggest retailer in the country stocking its products. Let’s hope that Hornby has put an end to last-minute cutbacks to retailers.

 

Agreed that Rails’ service is excellent. If there’s a problem with a model, a reply-paid label is e-mailed to return the offending article. Can’t say fairer than that.

[Steamport Southport]

On 20/09/2023 at 20:56, spamcan61 said:

Oooh an interesting, relevant snippet from the latest Hornby TT:120 magazine, from new brand manager Sarah Goodman:-

 

Sarah: We are changing how we announce models and instead of a range launch taking place once a year, we will make more announcements at regular intervals so that not only will this be more exciting, it will also mean that people do not have so long to wait for the items to arrive into stock

 

Does that just apply to TT though?

 

Announcement next week ISTR.

 

 

Jason