Manning Wardle

[Nearholmer]

4 hours ago, Rich Uncle Skeleton said:

The latter would match not only Metropolitan wagons and Wisbech coach

Although the Wisbech coaches have a similar general style to the Brill coach, typical tramway bogie coach style in fact, the two designs were actually substantially different, the W&U ones being unusually low, for instance.

[Izzy]

29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

What are the dates for the L class?

I believe the L’s first appeared in 1881.

 

Bob

[JSpencer]

20 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

The other was, in fact two ....... No.353 was Ashford Carriage Works shunter and No.752 shunted at Folkestone Harbour : 

 

353 : 'Q' class - MW1154/1890, cylinders 14'' x 20'', 3'6'' wheels, 600 gallons water - new to South Eastern, withdrawn in 1929

752 : 'K' class - MW725/1879, cylinders 12'' x 17'', 3'2'' wheels, 430 gallons water - second hand to SECR 1905, to Northfleet Wharf in 1925

 

22 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The thing I’m thinking, is that some of your class identifications may not be quite right.

FY&N No.1 (later SR W1 ‘Medina’) was Q class MW1555/1902; ‘Bembridge’ was M class MW517/1875; ‘Charwelton’ is also bigger than an L, but I’m not sure exactly which class it is.

 

The SECR had two MWs I think, although I can’t find the relevant book right now. No.313 (MW767/1881) used at Folkestone (later as 225s at Meldon Quarry) was an 0-4-0ST, but I’m not sure which class; the other was, I think an L class 0-6-0ST, but don’t trust me on that.

 

 

No.313 was a G class according to Bradley.

 

The Rapido publicity seems to show 1210  Sir Berkeley. No idea of the class but seems to 12 * 17 inch cylinders, 3ft wheels.

Those dimensions are similar/identical  to 752 K class (said to be sold with 3ft wheels, the SECR noted 3ft2, but that could be wear allowance).

 

And equally look identical to me as the one I most want.... 641 Sharpthorn.

(though I will happily but one in SECR colours too).

 

[Nearholmer]

Sir Berkeley is an L.

 

As per the tables posted by Sir Douglas, the K has a slightly smaller boiler, operating at a lower pressure, which would yield a noticeably lower tractive effort.

 

Sharpthorn is K Class MW641/1877.

 

Whether the small dimensional differences between a K and an L make any difference at 1:76 scale is, I guess, in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I think that the things that determine the character of the individual locos, making some of them look absolutely antique, and others fairly modern, are the designs of the smokeboxes and cabs (or near complete absence thereof), although the very low-pitched boiler on the K, snuggling far down behind the buffer beam,  is rather characteristic.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Hando]

On 12/08/2023 at 17:00, LittleRedTrain said:

The Brill Tramway had a couple of Manning Wardle locos, which would just about overlap with the already-announced Metropolitan E Class... ;-)
https://www.railwayarchive.org.uk/getobject?rnum=L1062
 

https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-87678

They were K Classes, which I suspect Rapido won't be producing first (the renders appear to be L Class engines)

[JSpencer]

13 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Sir Berkeley is an L.

 

As per the tables posted by Sir Douglas, the K has a slightly smaller boiler, operating at a lower pressure, which would yield a noticeably lower tractive effort.

 

Sharpthorn is K Class MW641/1877.

 

Whether the small dimensional differences between a K and an L make any difference at 1:76 scale is, I guess, in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I think that the things that determine the character of the individual locos, making some of them look absolutely antique, and others fairly modern, are the designs of the smokeboxes and cabs (or near complete absence thereof), although the very low-pitched boiler on the K, snuggling far down behind the buffer beam,  is rather characteristic.

 

I admit that when I was looking at photos of Berkley and Sharpthorn, I had the overall impression that the smokebox was slightly larger.

However IF the footplate and everything below it is the same, I guess Rapido could tool up both varieties......

[Nearholmer]

That 7” difference in boiler pitch may make all the difference between being able to fit everything in, and not, in 4mm scale. Mind you …… r-t-r 009 locos aren’t exactly huge, are they?

[Rich Uncle Skeleton]

When do you think they’ll be an announcement regarding what models are being made? 

[No Decorum]

14 minutes ago, Rich Uncle Skeleton said:

When do you think they’ll be an announcement regarding what models are being made? 

That’s what we all want to know. Over to you, Rapido!

[AMJ]

Dates for L's are from 1874 though to 1919 according to the Harman book

 

Taking a look at my database on the Leeds Engine site (link in footer) there are about 90

 

Examples were used on North Sunderland, Isle of Axholme and Weston Clevedon & Portishead

[phil_sutters]

...and further afield. Those lamps look big, or is it just the loco is so small?

Edited August 14, 2023 by phil_sutters

[Wickham Green too]

45 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

...and further afield. Those lamps look big, or is it just the loco is so small?

Probably a small loco - and small crew - if it's narrow gauge ....................... but I'm not convinced it is !

[JSpencer]

1 hour ago, Rich Uncle Skeleton said:

When do you think they’ll be an announcement regarding what models are being made? 

 

Next News letter on the 24th.

 

And there are THREE models entering tooling so S160, The Manning Waddle.... leaves one more to come!

[rapidoandy]

You assume these are part of the three we mentioned earlier in the week......never assume anything where Rapido Trains UK are involved ;-)

[BVMR21]

You Rapido guys do love to have fun don't you? (rhetorical question before anyone tries to answer)

Can't wait for this months newsletter, what with the S160 being in there, and then this Manning Wardleness being out there.

[Captain Kernow]

1 hour ago, rapidoandy said:

You assume these are part of the three we mentioned earlier in the week......never assume anything where Rapido Trains UK are involved ;-)

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!...

[rprodgers]

3 hours ago, AMJ said:

Dates for L's are from 1874 though to 1919 according to the Harman book

 

Taking a look at my database on the Leeds Engine site (link in footer) there are about 90

 

Examples were used on North Sunderland, Isle of Axholme and Weston Clevedon & Portishead

Isn't "Winston Churchill " MW loco an L class   (which stands outside, right by the entrance to the Black Country Museum) ? 

 

It has a stated build date of 1923.

 

If the MW  "Warwickshire" (on the SVR)  is an L class this was apparently built in 1926.

 

 

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/manning-wardle-works-no-2025-winston-churchill-0-6-0st/

Edited August 14, 2023 by rprodgers
Additional detail

[phil_sutters]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Probably a small loco - and small crew - if it's narrow gauge ....................... but I'm not convinced it is !

Thinking about it, weren't Turkish-built railways a broader gauge, so narrow may equal standard.

[AMJ]

34 minutes ago, rprodgers said:

Isn't "Winston Churchill " MW loco an L class   (which stands outside, right by the entrance to the Black Country Museum) ? 

 

It has a stated build date of 1923.

 

If the MW  "Warwickshire" (on the SVR)  is an L class this was apparently built in 1926.

 

 

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/manning-wardle-works-no-2025-winston-churchill-0-6-0st/

Both of these are classed as specials by MW.  

 

Warwickshire is the youngest MW and in a few years will be 100 years old.

[PaulRhB]

So will liveries etc be announced on the 24th then? Couldn’t even find the poster on the website! 🫠

[Asterix2012]

5 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

Thinking about it, weren't Turkish-built railways a broader gauge, so narrow may equal standard.

Iraq had meter gauge 

 

And Turkey used standard gauge (and Stanier 8f from the WD)

[Wickham Green too]

25 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said:

Iraq had metre gauge ...

... and some 2'6'' - but mainly standard : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Republic_Railways

[Steamport Southport]

On 13/08/2023 at 10:20, Captain Kernow said:

Thanks Bob, that's a very understandable explanation for an electronic dimwit like me.

 

All of my layouts now feature the option to easily switch between AMR and normal Gaugemaster DC controllers (literally the flick of a switch), so I can select the most appropriate controller for the loco in question.

 

I think I agree with The Johnster's explanation that I have been 'spectacularly unlucky' when it comes to the examples of DJM and Rapido locos that I have tried.

 

But that doesn't answer the complaint of the spectacularly difficult choices faced by the P4 or EM modeller, seeking to convert a Rapido steam loco to their chosen gauge - either do a re-wheeling job with the chassis still in place in the bodyshell (not necessarily easy) or completely dismantle the loco (body and chassis) and literally re-build parts of the body components, to arrive at a body, under which you can put your replacement chassis.

 

At least Rapido don't try to sell us steam locos that are effectively running on motor bogies, like the late (and not lamented by me) DJ Models.

 

 

RT Models already do Manning Wardle chassis from the kits as separate items. Might be a better solution for those with wider gauges. 

 

https://rtmodels.co.uk/rt_models_032.htm

 

 

Jason

[Wickham Green too]

28 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

RT Models already do Manning Wardle chassis from the kits as separate items. Might be a better solution for those with wider gauges. ...

... so long as you're happy to chuck a perfectly serviceable chassis in the landfill - or Rapido are kind enough to sell you body only ! 

[Captain Kernow]

32 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

RT Models already do Manning Wardle chassis from the kits as separate items. Might be a better solution for those with wider gauges. 

 

https://rtmodels.co.uk/rt_models_032.htm

 

 

Jason

 

2 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

... so long as you're happy to chuck a perfectly serviceable chassis in the landfill - or Rapido are kind enough to sell you body only ! 

Thanks, chaps, but unfortunately that's not quite the point.

 

My main and overarching gripe with Rapido is that there is no recognisable body with their UK steam outline models which can be considered a completely separate component from an equally separate motor and chassis unit in the way that exists with (say) Bachmann.

 

You simply cannot just undo a couple of screws (like you can with Bachmann) and end up holding a  loco body in one hand and a chassis in the other.

 

You would have to dismantle the whole loco to a significant degree to achieve separation of body and chassis components and even that's not enough (certainly in the case of the 16XX), because with that loco you would then have to take a razor saw to a main casting, cut it into 3 parts and reassemble 2 of them with the remaining body parts...

 

It's frankly easier to build the white metal kit if you want a P4 or EM 16XX with an etched chassis and motor-gearbox combination of your choice. 

 

Rapido counter this by saying that this type of integrated construction is much favoured in the rest of the world, but that conveniently overlooks that most of that 'rest of world' models in HO gauge, where you don't need to consider a wider gauge under RTR bodies.