How often is a exhibition layout not 'ready to go' at 'doors open' at exhibitions?

[newbryford]

53 minutes ago, Nick C said:

The most importat tool to have IMHO - almost all the issues described have been electrical of some kind, and they're so much easier to diagnose with a decent meter (and they're dirt cheap these days)

 

But only if you know how to use it.

 

I was at show once and the layout next door had an electrical issue and no meter.

I lent them my meter and there was a blank look on their face.........

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

Operators require feeding. And if attending an away show - accommodation. 

All extra expense on the exhibition finances.

Some need a lot of feeding, 😆 and yes accommodation is a huge factor and one reason I try to avoid hiring a van and fit it in cars to try and reduce costs. My latest layouts are all designed to fit in cars. Generally on two people and a section in each car based on the fact 16ft of layout is quite reasonable. My current 44ft large one that needs a minimum of six operators fits in three cars, just! 

[Talltim]

I've never exhibited a layout of my own at an exhibition, but I did take a freemo module to a meet. While it wasn't a public event, mine was a junction in the middle of a setup, so there was quite a lot of pressure that it worked. The disavantage of a module is that although it was small enough to set up at home, without other modules you can't really test it properly and you have no control over the stock that runs on it.

Thankfully it worked well, @PaulRhB kindly widened a couple of rail gaps between wiring section that were looking a bit close with his Dremel before we started and only one item of stock appeared to dislike one of the points.

[5944]

On 13/09/2023 at 22:35, Chris M said:

It’s fair to say that when a layout isn’t running when the exhibition opens the owners are far more upset than the viewing public.

I agree, and a lot of issues/failures can't be helped. I think the vast majority of people accept that. Likewise if the operators are scrambling around trying to fix the fault, not a problem in my view. These things happen. It's when there's a lack of urgency or pride that irritates me. You're there to show off your layout, if you want to stand around chatting to your mates all day go to the pub!

 

I went to one exhibition where an hour before doors opening, there was still a substantial sized layout missing. 45 minutes before opening time they waltzed in to try and set up their layout. Come opening time the boards are up but no lights and more importantly no stock! Frankly that's not really good enough, especially as they didn't seem to be in any sort of rush to get things sorted. 

 

Everyone has something go wrong or makes mistakes now and again, it's just the way things go. In the past I've had to drive back to the club room the night before a show to pick up the controllers for the layout! But the layout was ready to go at 10am when doors opened, and that's what the paying public expect.

[newbryford]

2 hours ago, 5944 said:

that's what the paying public expect.

 

What a lot of the paying public don't expect, or even know, is that those that exhibit layouts are doing it because they want to do it. They are not being paid (over and above expenses) to do so. 

 

 

[brossard]

2 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

What a lot of the paying public don't expect, or even know, is that those that exhibit layouts are doing it because they want to do it. They are not being paid (over and above expenses) to do so. 

 

 

 

What astonishes me is that layout operators get their travel expenses paid.  Here, for most shows, we get nothing.  Those who exhibit do it because they want to share their work.  There are exceptions, in August the club exhibited my layout at Exporail, a very good railroad museum.  We were paid $450 for the weekend.

 

Back in June we did another show where there was nothing at all.

 

The big British Show here, GBTS, pays exhibitors something towards gas but that actual amount is dependent on the show take.  For my group that means travel to Toronto with all the gas that entails, hotels and meals, all on our own dime.  We do it because it a chance to see friends and colleagues in the British Model Railway community and also to show off our work.

 

John

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by brossard

[SHMD]

One of the most important aspects of doing something – anything for the first time – is to have done it before!

 

ie. Get some experience exhibiting, on other peoples layouts, BEFORE you take your own layout on its first outing.

You will learn loads and see things that are really good (ideas and practices) and things that you will think “I must avoid that at all costs”.

 

 

Kev.

 

[Chris M]

4 hours ago, brossard said:

 

What astonishes me is that layout operators get their travel expenses paid.  Here, for most shows, we get nothing.  Those who exhibit do it because they want to share their work.  There are exceptions, in August the club exhibited my layout at Exporail, a very good railroad museum.  We were paid $450 for the weekend.

 

Back in June we did another show where there was nothing at all.

 

The big British Show here, GBTS, pays exhibitors something towards gas but that actual amount is dependent on the show take.  For my group that means travel to Toronto with all the gas that entails, hotels and meals, all on our own dime.  We do it because it a chance to see friends and colleagues in the British Model Railway community and also to show off our work.

 

John

 

I guess we are lucky in the UK. The norm is to get actual travel expenses, hotel accommodation if you have travelled a long way and lunch. Also free tea and coffee all day. The biggest N gauge show in the UK doesn’t provide lunch or drinks to exhibitors. In the past I have just added the cost of lunch and drinks to expenses. The last time I was invited I turned them down because of the lack of refreshments during the day. This show is put on by a business so they are making a profit out of me giving my time for free. 

[298]

5 hours ago, brossard said:

 

What astonishes me is that layout operators get their travel expenses paid.  Here, for most shows, we get nothing.  Those who exhibit do it because they want to share their work.  There are exceptions, in August the club exhibited my layout at Exporail, a very good railroad museum.  We were paid $450 for the weekend.

 

 

...If they choose to claim, I don't for one days shows that I would go to anyway because by the time I've got in for free and been provided with lunch I probably owe them money. I also get free electric car charging at work so the free miles that that car does around town pays for the petrol to take the other car and layout to shows.

[newbryford]

Before this thread strays too far OT into the realms of exhibition organisation and expenses......

 

One thing oft-forgotten is to clean the wheels of the unpowered stock.

i.e. the coaches, wagons and trailer cars of the DMUs.

 

I do it every 3-4 shows and it's surprising how much cr&p comes off them.

Whilst some are fairly clean, there are a few items that seem to be dirt magnets!

[Michael Hodgson]

20 hours ago, newbryford said:

I was at show once and the layout next door had an electrical issue and no meter.

I lent them my meter and there was a blank look on their face.........

 

I was once visiting a show and all the layouts had an electrical issue, the traders also could only take cash. 

 

It was at York Racecourse and the total load was apparently too much for the circuit breakers; they had to send to Leeds for a sparky to come and sort it out. In the meantime one or two exhibitors did manage to get their layouts going by plugging into the emergency lighting.

[Nick C]

23 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

I was once visiting a show and all the layouts had an electrical issue, the traders also could only take cash. 

 

It was at York Racecourse and the total load was apparently too much for the circuit breakers; they had to send to Leeds for a sparky to come and sort it out. In the meantime one or two exhibitors did manage to get their layouts going by plugging into the emergency lighting.

I once went to a show to help out with a gauge 3 layout - which for part of the time was the only layout working, as it's locos were all battery-powered RC and so it had no need for mains power...

[john new]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

I was once visiting a show and all the layouts had an electrical issue, the traders also could only take cash. 

 

It was at York Racecourse and the total load was apparently too much for the circuit breakers; they had to send to Leeds for a sparky to come and sort it out. In the meantime one or two exhibitors did manage to get their layouts going by plugging into the emergency lighting.

Yep, the year the stand was being renovated. Total power out, including the between floors escalators. Part of the problem on the Sunday was the catering team (The Raceourse's concessionnaire not ours) putting on the ovens for the lunches and tripping the system. Happened at least twice I recall and the venue's on-call sparky was in Huddersfield. 

 

Being on the organising team for shows we've had layouts and operators delayed by traffic over the years. last Saturday, although not railway show related, our local semi-pro football team had their away match cancelled as the team bus was stuck in a total road closure on the A31 across the New Forest on route to their away game. Memory of the traffic reports is the closure lasted three hours. I have missed meetings in the past due to traffic hold-ups on the way, and one recent family visit trip back to York took 9 hours instead of the usual 6 due to traffic issues all the way up. Luckily we just missed the worst one on the M5 near Taunton as a sat-nav traffic alert took as round that one.

 

Vehicle breakdown is another random one - only railway related one for me directly (other than keys incident mentioned above) was a club layout taken to Andover show many years ago. On the way back we loaded the trailer and the hauling car then broke down in the show car park! Operators all got back Ok in other cars but the layout was very delayed getting back to the store room.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by john new
Extra point added

[westernviscount]

12 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

What a lot of the paying public don't expect, or even know, is that those that exhibit layouts are doing it because they want to do it. They are not being paid (over and above expenses) to do so. 

 

 

i wonder how much a sense of duty to punters is involved at exhibitions? I very much agree with what you say above. My layout is usually set up in plenty of time, faults fixed and trains running by doors open. But I confess this is mostly for reasons of pride in my work and the desire to enjoy my time playing trains. Being at an exhibition is essentially voluntary. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by westernviscount

[john new]

2 hours ago, westernviscount said:

i wonder how much a sense of duty to punters is involved at exhibitions? I very much agree with what you say above. My layout is usually set up in plenty of time, faults fixed and trains running by doors open. But I confess this is mostly for reasons of pride in my work and the desire to enjoy my time playing trains. Being at an exhibition is essentially voluntary. 

Re sense of duty/professionalism even though not being paid. That often identifies itself nearing the end of the show. The equally valid reverse scenario - how many stands are fully functional on the dot of closure?

 

We all want to be away quickly but as both often part of the organising team, also sometimes there as a demo/layout/Society stand and often as a punter I get exasperated by traders beginning to clear down well before the close and layouts with the barest minimum visible I.e. one train circulating constantly  with obvious stock packing going on behind. The issue being the clear and obvious disinterest to the paying punters by visibly shutting up shop early. Yes begin tidying up before the close, we all do that, but what I am getting at is when it is obvious a stand is being dismantled from up to half an hour before doors close.

Perhaps there is an argument for shows closing (even) earlier than in the past pre-COVID days but earlier advertised closing is a noticeable trend anyway as late afternoons are often very sparsely attended. That said the punters still in the hall nearing show end deserve the full complement of what they have paid for to be available. 

 

As a controversial suggestion - advertise that trade stands will close half an hour before the exhibition closes. Reason same basis as closing the refreshments earlier than the event.

 

[newbryford]

6 minutes ago, john new said:

 

We all want to be away quickly but as both often part of the organising team, also sometimes there as a demo/layout/Society stand and often as a punter I get exasperated by traders beginning to clear down well before the close and layouts with the barest minimum visible I.e. one train circulating constantly  with obvious stock packing going on behind.

 

 

Problem with leaving all the stock on to the finish (for a large layout) is that the exhibition organisers then complain that you're taking too long to pack up......

Edited September 15, 2023 by newbryford

[john new]

4 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Problem with leaving all the stock on to the finish is that the exhibition organisers then complain that you're taking too long to pack up......

It is a balance though. Slowly putting stock away after the last move it makes in a sequence is not the obvious type of frenzied packing up I am getting at.
 

I’m sure we have all seen examples over our years at shows of the type of actions I am getting at. I can’t remember the layout name but at a show I was at last year on one layout they were at the dismounting backscenes and the lighting rig stage before the show officially closed and with visitors still in the hall. That’s a minority action but the type of thing I’m getting at.

[fulton]

5 minutes ago, john new said:

 

 

We all want to be away quickly but as both often part of the organising team, also sometimes there as a demo/layout/Society stand and often as a punter I get exasperated by traders beginning to clear down well before the close and layouts with the barest minimum visible I.e. one train circulating constantly  with obvious stock packing going on behind.

 

I agree, as a visitor I do not want to see stands packing up early, as an exhibitor I also do not like it, I wait until close of show, just seems the right thing to do, why rush, ( I remember at a show in Germany, we British appeared very slap dash in our packing up, compared to the care and time the Germans were taking) I take it steady, when I am ready to load, most of the rush is over and access is a lot better. Can see that layouts with a lot of stock can take time, so I except an early start packing stock maybe required, shows closing at 4pm or 4,30pm is a good step, for some even that seems too late.

[gpplumy]

On 14/09/2023 at 13:06, newbryford said:

 

Spare operators are all good and well, but:

Operators require feeding. And if attending an away show - accommodation. 

All extra expense on the exhibition finances.

 

 

 

you have to bear in mind of course that shows usually set a limited amount, and the shows that i attended with the number of operators was not catered or any lodgings. the majority of the shows i have done are smaller charity type shows, 

[Andy Hayter]

The issues of starting to pack up early is a complex one.

You should of course continue to entertain the public up to the close of doors but at the same time the exhibitors are tired and want to get home. 

So I see packing up some of the stock before end of play as OK, provided that there remains a good variety at the front of house to entertain the paying public.

 

However once the doors are closed the list of jobs to be done is very long:

Pack up (remaining) stock.  Break down layout ancillaries - backscene, lighting, display arch.

Break down the layout and box up.

Transport all of the items to the van, secure and set off.  ( 1 - 1.5 hours might be less for smaller layouts)

Drive to the storage point for the layout (this might be 20 minutes it could be 3 hours or more).

Refuel the operators - who may not by now not have had any sustenance for 8-10 hours.

Offload the layout and lock up.

Refuel van.

Return van to hire company before 0800hrs to avoid an extra days hire charge. 

[Michael Hodgson]

24 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

Refuel the operators - who may not by now not have had any sustenance for 8-10 hours.

 

Not unknown for catering facilites to pack up early too.   when visitors have travelled a long way to visit the show, they may also want refuelling before doors close.

[Gilbert]

It can be tempting to wind down when during the last hour the only viewers of the layout are from other layouts.....

[Chris M]

Exhibitions tend to go dead in terms of visitors in the last hour. Often anyone arriving towards the end of a show will get in for half price. I start to remove each train as it completes its journey about 20 minutes before the end of a show and end up with just two trains running at close. I do have a 40 wagon train and a 32 wagon train and these take a fair bit of packing away.

[john new]

2 hours ago, Gilbert said:

It can be tempting to wind down when during the last hour the only viewers of the layout are from other layouts.....

 

True, but often the quiet last hour is the only time you've had, as an exhibitor, to look around the show/talk to fellow exhibitors. As I said above a balance between winding down appropriately for the circumstances and being inappropriately rushed in front of the public. It is also why I also pondered above if some of the smaller shows might realistically close earlier. If it is obvious the last paid admission time has passed and it is only exhibitors in the hall shut early but by the organiser officially calling time. It is what we do at the local museum, last paid entry 15:30 and if there are no paying punters left on site close either then or when the last one has gone. Sometimes they stay on-site until the very end of advertised opening (16:00) sometimes not. Early closing is the bonus not the right.

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by john new
Tweak for clarity

[Not Jeremy]

No names no pack drill, the "best" I ever managed was to pack up and leave before I had even started to set up, owing to complete f*ckwittery by the utter twerp who'd been delegated the job of organising the show.

 

More cheerfully, at Railex in 2017 we were treated to  showing of Martin Stringer's utterly fabulous "Tollesbury Quay". Chatting to Martin in the pub on the Friday night he revealed that things had not gone entirely to plan..

 

Which resulted in possibly my favourite ever photograph taken at an exhibition, the estimable Kevin Tong operating the layout on the following day.

 

Pure class!

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Not Jeremy
added Kevin