Great electric train show 14/15 October

[Nearholmer]

Yes, well, “isn’t practical to change” is the usual argument deployed for carrying on doing whatever you’re doing, and it’s very widely deployed as an excuse for doing nothing to limit the extent of human-made climate alteration. I guess when climate alteration has become so extreme as to force us to change, then we’ll change, and not before, that being human nature.

 

IMO, many of the big events result from clubs having got “locked into a paradigm”, the big exhibition almost becoming the entire raison d’etre for the club, and they result in a great deal of enjoyment all round, club members, exhibitors, traders, and visitors, so I can understand why ‘everyone’ is hooked, but pretending that there isn’t another paradigm available is just pretending.

(Silorry folks, m; I only starting down this track because I’m fed up hearing people moaning about car-parking, and TBH a bit fed-up with the idea that unfettered personal car use is an unalloyed benefit to society. I’ll try to shut up now.)

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Nearholmer

[jonhall]

Well I gave up the journey by train this morning after an hour and a half on Euston station with no trains arriving or departing! I should have gone by car.

 

The issue of park and ride was always going to be one of capacity, 2 or 3 buses combined give a capacity of what? 175-ish  per round trip, call it 350 per hour, and I would guess Saturday morning could reasonably have expected a couple of thousand visitors? therefore GETS should probably have laid on 9-10 buses, they will have had the visitor data from last year to base their numbers on.

 

Jon

Edited October 16, 2023 by jonhall

[NBL]

23 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Yes, well, “isn’t practical to change” is the usual argument deployed for carrying on doing whatever you’re doing, and it’s very widely deployed as an excuse for doing nothing to limit the extent of human-made climate alteration. I guess when climate alteration has become so extreme as to force us to change, then we’ll change, and not before, that being human nature.

 

IMO, many of the big events result from clubs having got “locked into a paradigm”, the big exhibition almost becoming the entire raison d’etre for the club, and they result in a great deal of enjoyment all round, club members, exhibitors, traders, and visitors, so I can understand why ‘everyone’ is hooked, but pretending that there isn’t another paradigm available is just pretending.

(Silorry folks, m; I only starting down this track because I’m fed up hearing people moaning about car-parking, and TBH a bit fed-up with the idea that unfettered personal car use is an unalloyed benefit to society. I’ll try to shut up now.)

 

In the 2 city centres that I'm most familiar (which are Glasgow and Edinburgh, even though they are over 100 miles away from me), I don't think there is anywhere that could host a show the size of Model Rail Scotland, and if there was, the costs would be horrendous. 

 

I know from work the costs of renting out venue space in Glasgow CC, places that could accommodate possibly a third to half of the average Model Rail show cost more for 1 day than a hall for the whole weekend (Thursday to Sunday) at the SEC.  Edinburgh is even more expensive.

 

Model Rails location in the SEC is pretty good, a couple of miles outside the centre with great transport links to the CC, plus it's walkable along the river or through charing cross.  It's also very well positioned for the road network.

[john new]

30 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Yes, well, “isn’t practical to change” is the usual argument deployed for carrying on doing whatever you’re doing, and it’s very widely deployed as an excuse for doing nothing to limit the extent of human-made climate alteration. I guess when climate alteration has become so extreme as to force us to change, then we’ll change, and not before, that being human nature.

 

IMO, many of the big events result from clubs having got “locked into a paradigm”, the big exhibition almost becoming the entire raison d’etre for the club, and they result in a great deal of enjoyment all round, club members, exhibitors, traders, and visitors, so I can understand why ‘everyone’ is hooked, but pretending that there isn’t another paradigm available is just pretending.

(Silorry folks, m; I only starting down this track because I’m fed up hearing people moaning about car-parking, and TBH a bit fed-up with the idea that unfettered personal car use is an unalloyed benefit to society. I’ll try to shut up now.)

 

Two separate issues - 

 

(1) if you are going to have it, where to have it? &

(2) should we not have it due to green issues?

 

It has taken around thirty years for the hobby to evolve to where we are now as a mix of large and smaller local shows. It will only evolve back if the paying punters stop going to the larger one's either voluntarily or by government dictat, fuel rationing or similar. What you will be left with though in the smaller shows is village halls and the like as City/town centres are so pedestrianised these days even a small show would be impractical for exhibitors to reach.

 

 

[Nearholmer]

There are all sorts of city centre venues, most not as big as the biggest “out of town” ones, but again it’s about being stuck in a paradigm.

 

I for one would never have dreamed that a huge layout would get set up in a cathedral, for instance, but one (three?) has been, and last time I was there, Chester Cathedral was in a city centre.

 

There are alternatives to the current approach, ways of enjoying the community side of our hobby and raising a few bob for the club at the same time, but, as in the rest of the climate alteration question, it’s just so much easier not to change until it’s forced upon us. For now, it’s easier to pretend it isn’t happening/pretend we can’t do anything about it/blame it on the Chinese (other scapegoats are freely available)/point out that “our bit” is only a drop in the ocean/point out that motor racing is far worse than railway modelling/etc.

 

 

[PMP]

33 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

There are all sorts of city centre venues, most not as big as the biggest “out of town” ones, but again it’s about being stuck in a paradigm.

 

Snip

 

There are alternatives to the current approach, ways of enjoying the community side of our hobby and raising a few bob for the club at the same time,

Well why don’t you start a new thread either here or in the main Musings and Miscellany section, and you can show your worked example/s of how the exhibition experience can change for the better of the environment, and still financially ’wash its face’ as a minimum for the organisers. Washing its face obviously needn’t be a criteria if you’ve got a benefactor prepared to philanthropically subsidise the show. Some examples of that would be good. 
 

By chance I went to an modelling exhibition today held in a school in a city location. Door price was £2.00, and it was well attended. The only practical way for visitors to attend was by car. If I didn’t have a car living 15 miles away, there is no practical way to get there and back by public transport on a Sunday.

 

I’m sure exhibitors like myself and show managers in particular, would be interested in you sharing your experience.

[Vecchio]

Had a good day at the show, and bought too much stuff. The Waterman layout had a few issues with short circuits, as far as I understood they were resulting from not enough power as well as some wagons which had been aged and the axles were not put back in the correct way. About the power issue: I heard they have only 5 ampere in total (which in my opinion is wrong, if you have one Z21 and 1 booster you would result in 6A). In any case at such a large layout I would use more boosters and also sectionalising (for instance slow up, slow down, fast up , fast down as separate sections). This would give you the possibility to identify where the short comes from and you can run the rest of the layout without keeping the punters upset. 

All in all a good show, exclusively British as usual. 

[ELTEL]

Unfortunately I was unable to attend GETS this year having not been feeling great all week.

 

Disappointed as last year the Stafford Railway Circle team won best in show for Whiteacres from the members of the public.

 

FIRST NEWS OF THE STAFFORD 2024 EXHIBITION 

 

Could I possibly suggest that you have a look here on RMWEB under exhibitions the comments about the this years STAFFORD EXHIBITION held over the weekend of 23rd & 24th September.

 

Could be your go too model railway exhibition to start the new modelling season.

 

A few points 

1 A larger venue than Milton Keynes and all user friendly as all on one level.

2. Stafford very central to all of the UK 6 miles from either J13 or J14 of the M6 and access from A51 & A50

3. West Coast Mainline Station with courtesy buses on both days

4. Free car parking for excess of 2500 cars
5. Over 50 layouts in all scales

6. Over 60 Top Traders - Have a look at the list of Traders attended this year 

7. Now in Bingley Hall with full catering and in 2023 we even had a pub 

 

PUT THE DATE IN YOUR DIARY NOW FOR 2024 - 28th & 29th September.

[Gilbert]

My photos from the day are here (captions to follow). Click on the photo:

 

 

[Dunalastair]

4 hours ago, philpot_holmes said:

Went to the Great Electric Train Show on Saturday 14th by train from Leicester to Milton Keynes changing at Nuneaton with a direct train to Milton Keynes ... Videos from the show ...

 

Thankyou for the videos, which helped make up for not being there. I was sorely tempted to go, with Burntisland as the main attraction and MK Central as something out of the ordinary. The price and likelihood of crowds in the hall rather put me off (remembering Warley) and it certainly looked as if people were several deep at the barriers for the central part of MK Central. Hope that those who went enjoyed it and that Sunday's parking arrangement was less stressful. 

[gwrrob]

22 hours ago, Dunalastair said:

 

The price and likelihood of crowds in the hall rather put me off (remembering Warley) 

 

One trader told me there was talk of 7000 through the doors yesterday, so it was a well turned out show. The balconies especially had staff limiting numbers going up to.

 

Having now seen the BBC article I know this is utter tosh. 5000 over the two days more like

Edited October 16, 2023 by gwrrob
utter billhooks

[43110andyb]

A few more pic from Thorne Yard on an enjoyable 2nd day%

[woodenhead]

17 minutes ago, 43110andyb said:

A few more pic from Thorne Yard on an enjoyable 2nd day%

You've fixed the back to backs on the Mk1 electrification vehicle then?

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Vecchio said:

Had a good day at the show, and bought too much stuff. The Waterman layout had a few issues with short circuits, as far as I understood they were resulting from not enough power as well as some wagons which had been aged and the axles were not put back in the correct way. About the power issue: I heard they have only 5 ampere in total (which in my opinion is wrong, if you have one Z21 and 1 booster you would result in 6A). In any case at such a large layout I would use more boosters and also sectionalising (for instance slow up, slow down, fast up , fast down as separate sections). This would give you the possibility to identify where the short comes from and you can run the rest of the layout without keeping the punters upset. 

All in all a good show, exclusively British as usual. 

They spent Friday testing the layout I believe and it was all working, when I got in yesterday around 9:45 it wasn't working and Pete Waterman was jokingly shouting if everyone would turn off their phones they might be able to get a signal to operate the trains.  I don't know how true that was, but I could imagine testing it Friday with a few dozen people scattered around the venue against several hundred on the Saturday morning they might have had an issue with electronics talking to each other.  Given all the stock was added on Friday and used throughout Saturday then there shouldn't be much to go wrong on Sunday unless stuff had worn out from overuse to cause shorts.

[phil-b259]

4 hours ago, jonhall said:

Well I gave up the journey by train this morning after an hour and a half on Euston station with no trains arriving or departing! 

 

 

 

Due to a combination of a long planned possession closing most of the approach lines and a relay fault  preventing a critical set of points obtaining detection on the only 2 that were open.

 

Unfortunately staff shortages and things like the ban on working without line blockages meant it took some time to resolve the issue .

[PaulRhB]

All these alternative locations might have been thought about but discounted due to cost or availability. We have held what became a mid sized show for thirty years until the school decided they would only hire to regular users, once a year wasn’t enough. Another group I belong to moved venue as the price doubled before covid and the new venue has followed suit post covid. Many decent sized spaces just aren’t viable especially if your costs are high anyway sourcing larger layouts and from a wide geographic area. 
 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by PaulRhB

[john new]

12 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Due to a combination of a long planned possession closing most of the approach lines and a relay fault  preventing a critical set of points obtaining detection on the only 2 that were open.

 

Unfortunately staff shortages and things like the ban on working without line blockages meant it took some time to resolve the issue .

BBC News have it here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67115764 

[phil-b259]

1 minute ago, john new said:

BBC News have it here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67115764 

 

Indeed - but what they conspicuously fail to mention is the presence of a possession for scheduled engineering work (without which the failure of this particular set of points wouldn't have bought everything top a halt).

 

The net result is the average passenger goes away thinking 'incompetent railways' - 'there are lots of platforms and tracks at Euston one signal failure shouldn't cause so much disruption'.....

[43110andyb]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

You've fixed the back to backs on the Mk1 electrification vehicle then?

Thank you - Yes but on detailed inspection the instanters couplings where the hook went through body were fouling the bogies both ends! owner Steve managed to remove the culprits! 
Ps- it’s a tunnel inspection train but similar roof as the electrification train to walk/stand on. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by 43110andyb

[Pete the Elaner]

20 hours ago, BournehamRob said:

For those saying why did Key Model World book this event on the match day. I brought my ticket way back in February and no doubt the venue booking was done earlier than that. The football fixtures for this season where released back in June, so way after the venue was booked and I don't think the FA will be to worried about a Model Railway show clashing with a footy match. Journey home was fine and all in all a good day. I do think I'll make a trip next year.

 

Shows, especially on this scale need to be planned months, possible over a year in advance.

Football fixtures cannot be published before they are calculated & which teams form each league are not known until the end of the previous season when any promotion & relegation have been decided. It could be late May or early June before this is known.

Most football stadiums have other facilities, used for conferences or other events. These are kept booked as much as possible to make money from them, some of which supports the football clubs. It will be completely impossible to honour any type of request to avoid matches on certain days.

[Legend]

5 hours ago, NBL said:

In the 2 city centres that I'm most familiar (which are Glasgow and Edinburgh, even though they are over 100 miles away from me), I don't think there is anywhere that could host a show the size of Model Rail Scotland, and if there was, the costs would be horrendous. 

 

I know from work the costs of renting out venue space in Glasgow CC, places that could accommodate possibly a third to half of the average Model Rail show cost more for 1 day than a hall for the whole weekend (Thursday to Sunday) at the SEC.  Edinburgh is even more expensive.

 

Model Rails location in the SEC is pretty good, a couple of miles outside the centre with great transport links to the CC, plus it's walkable along the river or through charing cross.  It's also very well positioned for the road network.

id say you are spot on there NBL . I’ve travelled to Model Rail Scotland by car but got fed up paying the SECC car parking fees , it is available though and if a family of 4 could work out . I travel by train . I think 6 trains per hour through Argyle line - frequent enough you don’t need to look up timetable anyway  and it’s only an extra 10p on my normal journey into Glasgow .  While Park and Rides are not uncommon , as pointed out above , they are still an inconvenience that you would choose not to use if you could go direct . In addition they have to be properly resourced , which appears not to have been the case here 

[Nearholmer]

1 minute ago, Pete the Elaner said:

relegation have been decided. It could be late May or early June before this is known

It’s usually k own in late September that MK Dons will get relegated. Did you see what happened yesterday: held on to a 2-0 lead until extra time, then conceded two goals within five minutes!!

[Kirby Uncoupler]

3 hours ago, Vecchio said:

 The Waterman layout had a few issues with short circuits, 

Sorry to hear that, for Pete it must have felt like P4 Acton days all over again ( If you're old enough to remember that one? 🙂 )? But then if modelling the WCML, it's accurate and prototypical, for trains to stop running for a period, whilst the power supply is restored, at least the catenary didn't come down, just like the real thing.

    Seriously though, it can't be easy setting up a 150ft plus layout in yet another different location, a layout so big that it can't be tested  in it's entirety back at base camp, so the odd gremlin is bound to creep in? As a whole the layout is very impressive, particularly the station, with it's modern office blocks.

                                                      Cheers, Brian.

[Gilbert]

Mr Waterman was out in the crowd explaining the problems and maintaining morale. His layout is a truly outstanding enterprise despite the frequent problems it experienced...

Maybe he needed some help...

 

[Gilbert]

One of my very amateur vids..