Wheels, wheels, everywhere......

[newbryford]

Interesting article about Dapol's new lathe.

 

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/wheels-wheels-wheels-everywhere

[osbornsmodels]

I have seen this Dapol machine in action. Fantastic . Bringing even more work home.

[The Johnster]

Did they buy it because the colours match their boxes?  It's a very Dapolian looking piece of kit, stick wheels on it and it could pass as a track cleaner!

 

Interesting to see the comment that the UK production process was cheaper than having the wheels made in China.  Presumably it could be used by other companies that have stock manuafactured over there, conditional I suppose on the cost-effectiveness of using a human being or buying a machine to insert the wheels into the chassis.  Or they could just put them in the box for us to insert into the chassis ourselves, they already do chassis we have to stick the bodies on to and bodies we have to paint...

Edited October 26, 2023 by The Johnster

[lippy]

Pity I chuck their wheels and Bogies in the scrap pile, neither any use for EM or P4. 

[The Johnster]

I destroy mine, and the couplings, with extreme prejudice to prevent any accidental usage, but Dap have redesigned the droopy couplings and with any luck the new lathe will make decent wheesets.

 

Not very many years ago I had more or less given up on Dapol as they seemed to be unrepentant purveyors of crude 1960s-based toolings inherited from Wrenn and ultimately from HD, and there are still a few dogs in the range, but the same can be said for Hornby and Bachmann.  The 43xx and large prairie were eyeopeners, especially the better-geared second batches.  Dap and Hornby make 16ton and 7-plank minerals on the wrong wheebase chassis, stretching the body dimensions to keep proportion but making attempts at rectifying them pointless, and there is little that can be done with moulded handbrake levers.  One would want to replace such chassis anyway because of the crudity of detail on them.  But these are very old toolings, and one can hardly blame manufacturers for hanging on to them if they are turning an honest bob for the company...

 

But blue/silver box are making some progress in pulling thmselves into the world of current standards, and keeping a lid on prices by and large as well.  I am particularly impressed with the upcoming Diagram N auto-trailer, which is highly appropriate for my layout and which I have been banging on about for years in the hope that they'd put the very good 7mm Lionheart model through a 4mm shrink ray.  If my persistent pleadings have had any affect at all, my thanks to the company; I have one on order and it will be interesting to see how the wheels and couplings stand up to critical examination. 

 

I factor in the cost of replacement wheels,coupling mounts, and couplings when costing Dapol items, but it may be that I will have to do that less often in the future!

Edited October 26, 2023 by The Johnster

[Michael Hodgson]

5 hours ago, lippy said:

Pity I chuck their wheels and Bogies in the scrap pile, neither any use for EM or P4. 

Is their new toy incapable of producing EM/P4 wheels as well?

[davknigh]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Is their new toy incapable of producing EM/P4 wheels as well?

Given all the bells and whistles the beastie has I should imagine the only limitation would be the imagination of the programmer. 

 

Cheers,

 

David

[DCB]

7 hours ago, lippy said:

Pity I chuck their wheels and Bogies in the scrap pile, neither any use for EM or P4. 

You should put them on eBay for impoverished bodgers like myself can use them. The lathe is great news, lets hope they get the tyre profile right.  I had to rework my Dapol Mogul's pony wheel to stop it derailing.   ( I  Made the treads tapered not flat, a bit like full size wheels )

 

[The Johnster]

Good grief; and I thought I was impoverished!  Wheels are becoming an expensive comestible, but not enough to persuade me that the older profile of Dapol’s roundyroundyrollies lead to anything but poor running.  And if your layout runs poorly, what’s the point?  Unless the new lathe changes things, they are not much good for 00, either, lippy. 

3 hours ago, DCB said:

[Kris]

Whether or not you believe that their wheels are poor, this should be seen as showing confidence in making models locally rather than needing to ship them thousands of miles.

[Enterprisingwestern]

15 hours ago, lippy said:

Pity I chuck their wheels and Bogies in the scrap pile, neither any use for EM or P4. 

 

Spending all that money on a whizz bang machine and still turning out sh!t wheels of indeterminate profiles and a shocking face lacking the subtlety of the real thing.

It obviously seemed a good idea to somebody, an opportunity lost IMHO.

 

Mike.

[The Johnster]

Well, let’s hope the new machine improves the situation, then, Mike; give them a chance!  Nobody’s saying that the new lathe will be turning out wheels of the previous dire quality.  
 

New wheels and redesigned couplings that don’t droop; Dap are sorting themselves out and are to be praised for recognising that some of their components are not up to the mark and doing something about it!  

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Well, let’s hope the new machine improves the situation, then, Mike; give them a chance!  Nobody’s saying that the new lathe will be turning out wheels of the previous dire quality.  

 

Well, looking at the pictures,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Mike.

[Rhydgaled]

23 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I destroy mine, and the couplings, with extreme prejudice to prevent any accidental usage, but Dap have redesigned the droopy couplings and with any luck the new lathe will make decent wheesets.

 

16 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Good grief; and I thought I was impoverished!  Wheels are becoming an expensive comestible, but not enough to persuade me that the older profile of Dapol’s roundyroundyrollies lead to anything but poor running.  And if your layout runs poorly, what’s the point?  Unless the new lathe changes things, they are not much good for 00, either, lippy. 

 

Why exactly did the old Dapol wheels lead to poor running - in what way was the profile of them wrong?

 

9 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

10 hours ago, The Johnster said:

12 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

Spending all that money on a whizz bang machine and still turning out sh!t wheels of indeterminate profiles and a shocking face lacking the subtlety of the real thing.

It obviously seemed a good idea to somebody, an opportunity lost IMHO.

 

Mike.

Well, let’s hope the new machine improves the situation, then, Mike; give them a chance!  Nobody’s saying that the new lathe will be turning out wheels of the previous dire quality.

 

Well, looking at the pictures,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Mike.

As should be clear from the question above, I don't know what I'm looking for with regard to 'poor profile' but to my untrained eye the big pile of unasembled silvery parts do look a bit odd (eg. possibily some very deep flanges in the left-hand pic showing 3-hole wheels). However the final shots of the assembled, blackened, wheelsets don't look obviously wrong to me. If they are wrong, what is wrong about them?

Assuming there was a problem with the profile before but the new lathe has resolved them, the next question is how do we tell, if purchasing packs of spare wheels, which are the good ones?

[Enterprisingwestern]

11 hours ago, Rhydgaled said:

Assuming there was a problem with the profile before but the new lathe has resolved them, the next question is how do we tell, if purchasing packs of spare wheels, which are the good ones?

If Bachmann can make a half decent fist of an rtr wheel there is no excuse for anyone else not to.

It's not just Dapol, other manufacturers haven't got a scooby, even ones who are supposedly so wonderful they can win all sorts of awards.

 

Mike.

[The Johnster]

18 hours ago, Rhydgaled said:

Why exactly did the old Dapol wheels lead to poor running - in what way was the profile of them wrong?

 

Not a question I am qualified to answer, except to say that every Dapol vehicle I have ever had at Cwmdimbath has been a poor runner and perpetual derailer.  Some of the problem is the droopy couplers; the bars underride the adjoinging correct height couplers and the result is either bufferlock or/and the other end of the vehicle lifting, ergo derailment.  The rest of the problem is where derailing persists after the couplings have been replaced, and is always, without exception, cured by replacing the wheels with Bachmanns.  I now replace couplings and wheels on any Dapol rolling stock I buy be default.

 

Droopy couplers caused issues with the droppers fouling on crossing rails and timber crossings as well, but that is easily cured with a pair of snips...

 

18 hours ago, Rhydgaled said:

Assuming there was a problem with the profile before but the new lathe has resolved them, the next question is how do we tell, if purchasing packs of spare wheels, which are the good ones?

 

Good question!  If you are ordering your packs of spare wheels direct from Dapol now, you'd hope that the new wheels made in the new lathe would be supplied and that this would already be happening rather than the company working through older stock first!  The chances of your being supplied with the new wheels will improve over time of course.  Obviously rolling stock is going to take a bit longer for stock to be replaced with items with new wheels unless Dap are going to go to the trouble of taking old stock out of their boxes, taking the old wheelsets out, and replacing them with 'new lathe' wheelsets, and while it'd be nice to think they'd do that, this is the real world...

 

I can live with it; replacing coupling mounts with Parkside PA34s and popping in replacement Bachmann wheelsets is a minor irritation but well within even my limited modelling capability.  I standardise as far as possible on a wheel profile anyway and have chosen Bachmann for no reasons other than that the majority of my stuff was Bachmann when I made the decision (still is, but by less of a margin. and my standardisation policy is being compromised by Rapido and Accurascale, whose wheels have so far caused no issues, and the Maygibs from Parkside kits) and they run well.  But, as previously alluded to, my next Dapol purchase, a major one in my impoverished world, will be a diagram N auto-trailer, and I will be a) most interested to see how it's wheels and couplings perform and b) standing by with replacement wheelsets and couplings.

[SulzerPeak]

On 27/10/2023 at 00:55, DCB said:

You should put them on eBay for impoverished bodgers like myself can use them. The lathe is great news, lets hope they get the tyre profile right.  I had to rework my Dapol Mogul's pony wheel to stop it derailing.   ( I  Made the treads tapered not flat, a bit like full size wheels )

 

Agreed what sad attitude and waste

[Miss Prism]

7 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

 

 

Whose wheel is this? (Presumably this pic comes from another thread.)

 

 

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Whose wheel is this? (Presumably this pic comes from another thread.)

 

 

 

The second word after the photo might be a clue - or not?

 

CJI.

[Miss Prism]

Possibly.

 

[Halvarras]

On 27/10/2023 at 21:17, Rhydgaled said:

Why exactly did the old Dapol wheels lead to poor running - in what way was the profile of them wrong?

 

Some years back I bought five Dapol milk tank wagons to replace five Wrenn wagons which although resprayed silver I'd decided were 'past it', not very free running on their incorrect spoked wheels and were my only items of stock still fitted with the big metal 'D' couplings. It quickly became clear that all was not well with the wheelsets on the new ones - there was a noticeable 'grinding' noise on curves and pointwork often tripped them up. Examination of the wheels revealed that flanges at a sharp 90-degree angle to the treads was the problem. Luckily I'd stocked up on Hornby wheels when these were ridiculously cheap and they put things right. More recently I purchased eight Dapol-produced PO open wagons with Cornish names from the erstwhile Wessex Wagons whose wheels were considerably better, although a couple of the wagons run with a slight wobble. Cheap they may have been (not so much now of course) but those stocked-up Hornby wheels were impressively true-running, I don't think I found a single reject in ten packs. This is the quality Dapol should be aiming for, and with so many plastic-wheeled but otherwise decent wagons still in circulation (e.g. Mainline and Airfix as well as early Dapol, also older Hornby on plastic and dodgy metal-tyred wheels) I reckon keenly-priced wheel packs would sell very well. 

 

Regarding the droopy couplings I've had some success with (a) inserting Peco 1/16" fibre washers (ref R-8) under the pivot screw head, and (b) while the coupling's off grasping the NEM socket firmly between finger and thumb and bending the 'tail' up slightly with a pair of pliers.

[lippy]

On 28/10/2023 at 16:15, SulzerPeak said:

Agreed what sad attitude and waste

Not a waste if anyone wants to buy them. feel free to drop me a message, However given they're crap runners I don't want the hassle of Ebay disputes. 

 

 

[MattR]

Hopefully this will lead to better wheels. I still haven't figured out what it is about the derailling properties of Dapol wheels, if the height/center of gravity or the wheelbase of the wagon has anything to do with it in addition to the shallow flanges. In my experience, the 4-wheel vans and 6-wheel milk tanks constantly derail. However, open wagons seem to work just fine, as do the 21-ton hoppers (although as previously mentioned, rather loud and scrapey).

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by MattR

[Les1952]

10 hours ago, lippy said:

Not a waste if anyone wants to buy them. feel free to drop me a message, However given they're crap runners I don't want the hassle of Ebay disputes. 

 

 

 

You only get hassle if you don't put enough detail into the description.

 

Les

 

[Les1952]

6 hours ago, MattR said:

Hopefully this will lead to better wheels. I still haven't figured out what it is about the derailling properties of Dapol wheels, if the height/center of gravity or the wheelbase of the wagon has anything to do with it in addition to the shallow flanges. In my experience, the 4-wheel vans and 6-wheel milk tanks constantly derail. However, open wagons seem to work just fine, as do the 21-ton hoppers (although as previously mentioned, rather loud and scrapey).

 

 

 

I have derailment problems at times with empty 21-tonners of all makes.  Dapol's are no worse than Hornby's (though there are fewer detail parts to fall off/get damaged..)  This is because they are too light to propel through prototypical NCB trackwork - ie rough.

 

The solution is extra weight wherever it can be added out of sight.  In this instance the Dapols are better than the Hornbys as there is less moulded on detail to prevent weights being stuck in place.  The couplings I glue in place in vertical and horizontal planes as any movement places the minute neodymium magnet on the dropper in the wrong place to repel the neodymium magnet on the trackbed.  I also remove the dropper from one end of each wagon and both ends of each loco.

 

Les