Misrouted GWR train 28th October.

[Kris]

Apparently a GWR train from Penzance to Paddington was misrouted yesterday and had to reverse. It had started heading towards Bristol. I assume that this happened at Taunton. I suspect there are some red faces somewhere and an investigation happening. 

 

Sorry about the dire page the story is on. 

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/local-news/penzance-paddington-train-reverse-along-8866914?fbclid=IwAR3mn0rgu6YaP_7YqnxpmEsi9OHXbNv7xwqJrrIOQMxdBv1-iQpYd6qE0rc

[Stoke West]

1 hour ago, Kris said:

Apparently a GWR train from Penzance to Paddington was misrouted yesterday and had to reverse. It had started heading towards Bristol. I assume that this happened at Taunton. I suspect there are some red faces somewhere and an investigation happening. 

 

Sorry about the dire page the story is on. 

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/local-news/penzance-paddington-train-reverse-along-8866914?fbclid=IwAR3mn0rgu6YaP_7YqnxpmEsi9OHXbNv7xwqJrrIOQMxdBv1-iQpYd6qE0rc

Was once on a train from Taunton booked to call Westbury sent up relief to Cogload propelled over up main to up relief crossover then off to Athelney with no delay , so short term  planned

[johnofwessex]

Its a serious problem in the USA

 

See

 

 

[Mike_Walker]

2 hours ago, Kris said:

Apparently a GWR train from Penzance to Paddington was misrouted yesterday and had to reverse. It had started heading towards Bristol. I assume that this happened at Taunton. I suspect there are some red faces somewhere and an investigation happening. 

 

Sorry about the dire page the story is on. 

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/local-news/penzance-paddington-train-reverse-along-8866914?fbclid=IwAR3mn0rgu6YaP_7YqnxpmEsi9OHXbNv7xwqJrrIOQMxdBv1-iQpYd6qE0rc

I thought we only did that at Swindon Panel!  Don't feel so bad now .  😀

[The Pilotman]

According to one of the passengers, the train stopped “halfway to Bristol”. Halfway from Cogload to Bristol would be somewhere around Weston-super-Mare so I’m going to say they’re talking out of their ****.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

It was 1A78 0710 PZ - Padd.

The whole rumpus at Cogload only added around 20min to its journey time.

[Boris]

I very much doubt there will be much of an investigation into this, likely the signaller will be asked what happened, admit to wrong routing and asked not to do it again.  It happens frequently enough that there are procedures in place in the rules for it to be corrected quickly without a huge fuss being made, any delay will have been down to a) the time taken for the driver to walk the length of the train twice, possibly including being stopped by passengers multiple times and b) the need to provide a space in front of the wrong direction movement in case the driver goes further than instructed so there is no risk of conflicting movements, stick on a few minutes for the signaller to talk to the Driver on the GSMR 2-3 times and 20 minutes is pretty good.

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, The Pilotman said:

According to one of the passengers, the train stopped “halfway to Bristol”. Halfway from Cogload to Bristol would be somewhere around Weston-super-Mare so I’m going to say they’re talking out of their ****.

IF it had got “halfway to Bristol” it would have been best to let it continue .............. ( Assuming no engineering works and a path being available, of course.)

[The Border Reiver]

I was at Port Carlisle Junction in Carlisle waiting to take a photo of a special going up the Waverley line in the mid 1960s and was amazed when it went up the WCML towards Kingmoor. It eventually reversed and went on its journey up the Waverley line

[Wheatley]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

I very much doubt there will be much of an investigation into this, 

Agreed. Taking a wrong route because by the time you saw the route indication  you had no chance of stopping, is a routine event. It's usually either signaller error (thought it was something else and set the route accordingly), or the train plan programmed into ARS or given to the box is at odds with the diagram given to the driver. It happens, and since (under normal circumstances) you can't pull off for an unsafe route, only an inconvenient one, it causes delay rather than risk. 

 

It only gets interesting if having taken the wrong route you either stay on it and just keep going, or it is an unsafe route for a passenger train, such as the HST which ended up in the MGR circuit at Ferrybridge (?) power station a few years ago. 

[Boris]

1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

Agreed. Taking a wrong route because by the time you saw the route indication  you had no chance of stopping, is a routine event. It's usually either signaller error (thought it was something else and set the route accordingly), or the train plan programmed into ARS or given to the box is at odds with the diagram given to the driver. It happens, and since (under normal circumstances) you can't pull off for an unsafe route, only an inconvenient one, it causes delay rather than risk. 

 

It only gets interesting if having taken the wrong route you either stay on it and just keep going, or it is an unsafe route for a passenger train, such as the HST which ended up in the MGR circuit at Ferrybridge (?) power station a few years ago. 

My favourite is the ECS move that was supposed to be going to Edinburgh and ended up in Scarborough

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

It only gets interesting if having taken the wrong route you either stay on it and just keep going, or it is an unsafe route for a passenger train, such as the HST which ended up in the MGR circuit at Ferrybridge (?) power station a few years ago. 

 

If the driver of an electric train accepts the signalled misroute, it can be quite time-consuming to sort out.  Electrics are not very good at recovering the right route if they've run off the end of the wires/third rail, so you need to get something that can couple to the standed train and drag it out

[Halvarras]

On Saturday 16th September I was waiting on Par station's down Platform 1 mid-afternoon to catch a 5-car IET to Redruth. Nothing seemed amiss, the train was running to time and duly appeared under the road bridge.......but unexpectedly  swung off across the up main into Platform 3 (used by the Newquay branch trains) causing a stampede across the footbridge! The side destination displays confirmed this was the Penzance train (and the IET was the one I was expecting, thanks to Realtime Trains). Once we were all aboard the train departed passing behind Par signalbox, back across the up main again to regain the down line. The time penalty for this odd manoeuvre was 3 minutes. I still have no idea why it was routed this way, there were no station announcements and a check of RTT during the journey indicated that preceding down trains went through Par in the normal main line fashion. I can't claim it was misrouted but I suppose I got a tiny bit of unusual track for an IET out of it!

[adb968008]

A few months back the lbg to ecy was closed for engineering, routing some services via Peckham Rye to Streatham and hence Selhurst… except one unlucky Caterham service that ended up at Mitcham Eastfields.

 

it was at least 45 mins delay, affecting several other Sutton bound services to reverse it back out to Streatham wrong line. It would have been faster just to have continued to Sutton and reversed to Selhurst than all the messing and disruption caused, especially as the divert meant it should be nonstop lbg to ecy anyway.

Edited October 30, 2023 by adb968008

[Oldddudders]

5 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

A few months back the lbg to ecy was closed for engineering, routing some services via Peckham Rye to Streatham and hence Selhurst… except one unlucky Caterham service that ended up at Mitcham Eastfields.

 

it was at least 45 mins delay, affecting several other Sutton bound services to reverse it back out to Streatham wrong line. It would have been faster just to have continued to Sutton and reversed to Selhurst than all the messing and disruption caused, especially as the divert meant it should be nonstop lbg to ecy anyway.

And of course if they hadn't hived it off to be part of Croydon Tramlink, it could simply have turned left at Mitcham Junction onto the Sprat & Winkle and reached W Croydon and Selhurst direct. 

 

In my Control days (1968-73) the really awkward place for wrong pulls was South Croydon, because the moment an electric train went round the corner towards Selsdon Junction, it was off the juice and a bit stuck. Juiced all the way to East Grinstead since the mid-80s, of course. 

[Wickham Green too]

12 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

... you need to get something that can couple to the stranded train and drag it out

... and finding anything that's even vaguely compatible in  the couplings department ain't easy nowadays.

 

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

... moment an electric train went round the corner towards Selsdon Junction, it was off the juice and a bit stuck. ...

... unless it had enough momentum to get to back on the juice at Selsdon !

[Oldddudders]

7 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

... and finding anything that's even vaguely compatible in  the couplings department ain't easy nowadays.

 

... unless it had enough momentum to get to back on the juice at Selsdon !

Sadly a bit uphill, I think.

[Wickham Green too]

Indeed  .............. but that could've been advantageous for gravitating back to South Croydon instead !

[DY444]

On 29/10/2023 at 19:47, Wickham Green too said:

IF it had got “halfway to Bristol” it would have been best to let it continue .............. ( Assuming no engineering works and a path being available, of course.)

 

And assuming it was not a Plymouth driver.  Due to the bizarre way that railways are "managed" these days, GWR Plymouth drivers no longer sign Cogload to Bristol.   

[Siberian Snooper]

The 07.10 from PZ is usually a 5 car which joins a further 5 car at PLY.  I don't know who drives from PLY.

 

It was a bit weird the previous Saturday, I caught it at PLY a 5 car came up and stopped in platform 6 whilst there was a 10 car in platform 5, which we all joined.

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Siberian Snooper
added the 2nd paragraph

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

It was a bit weird the previous Saturday, I caught it at PLY a 5 car came up and stopped in platform 6 whilst there was a 10 car in platform 5, which we all joined.

Sounds like a good way of getting a unit needing attention out of service, so it can head for the depot. I’d call it normal practice. 

[Southernman46]

There was 500m of conductor rail installed on the Down WOE at Worting Junction in 1966 for just such an event. Since removed & oddly enough ISTR reused on the East Grinstead Electrification scheme...........................

 

Never going to be a issue because these days all the DEMU/EMU stock has similar couplers and there are plenty of spare locos within easy reach to enable quick rescue 🤣

Edited October 31, 2023 by Southernman46

[The Stationmaster]

On 29/10/2023 at 22:13, Boris said:

My favourite is the ECS move that was supposed to be going to Edinburgh and ended up in Scarborough

I can beat that - we had an ENS test train which was taken by the rwrong Diver/loco  from the yard at Tourcoing where it had been stabled overnight and it went to the wrong country (belgium) rathner than take its correct route via another border crossing transitting through Belgium to Germany)

 

Getting back to the 07.10 Penzance incident it looks like a tsraightfrward mis-routing and there are numerous reasons why they can happen - no doubt nby now that has been fully establsihed.  A but nore worrying is why the Driver took although there could be a valid reason for hos error.

 

But teh daftest thing of all is why did the train set back and then go booked route passing Athelmney Crossing 21 late?  We always used to reckon for an HST that a non-stop diversion via Bristol and Chippenham cost 21 minutes compared with a booked non-stop time via the B&H/W&W etc.  so if thgis train had kept running from Coglad it would /should have got to reading earlier than it actually did as it had no booked stops between taunton and reading.  Nowdays if the diversion was via Badminton it would cost less time than via Chippenham.

 

So are we back to some cloth-headed halfwit in DafT telling GWR to knock off diversionary Route Knowledge in order to save the cost of his tea & biscuits?  If that is teh c ase such stupidity and per-brained interfereence in railway operation  - where it affects safety as in this instance witha train making an unsignalled movement - needs to be exposed to public scrutiny and the halfwits duly pilloried by the media.

[phil-b259]

7 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

So are we back to some cloth-headed halfwit in DafT telling GWR to knock off diversionary Route Knowledge in order to save the cost of his tea & biscuits?  If that is the case such stupidity and per-brained interfereence in railway operation  - where it affects safety as in this instance witha train making an unsignalled movement - needs to be exposed to public scrutiny and the halfwits duly pilloried by the media.

 

Only issue is that said halfwit will have made sure they cannot be fingered for it. As with everything else in the industry these days the DfT will make sure that its the operator which will be blamed even if its DfT pressure to cut staffing costs which is the underlying reason.

 

Honestly its a depressing industry to work in at the moment....

[Mike_Walker]

But this case has nothing to do with removing route knowledge.  I understand the driver involved still signs both routes.  The issue was that the train was being misrouted without prior warning so the driver correctly stopped and challenged the route.