Hayfields 3D printed track workshop

[figworthy]

1 minute ago, martin_wynne said:

 

@figworthy

 

Hi Adrian,

 

A 1kg reel of filament is currently showing as £13.56 (it varies), see: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07FQKP7NS/

 

Using the default settings, a timbering base for a B-7 turnout in 4mm/ft scale weighs about 25g.

 

You can therefore make 40 such bases from 1 reel, and each one will cost 34p.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

Hi Martin,

 

Thanks, that is a really helpful answer.

 

Adrian

[martin_wynne]

@figworthy

 

Hi Adrian,

 

The resin cost for the chairs is more difficult to calculate because it depends how tightly they are packed on the printer build plate.

 

For Amazon Prime members the current cost of resin is £25.64 per kg, see: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0C7BFQZ2C/

 

A single S1 ordinary chair in 4mm/ft scale uses about 0.08g (some of which is wasted in the printing supports), so the cost of such a chair is about 0.2p (i.e. 5 chairs for 1p). 

 

A full chair set for a B-7 turnout in 4mm/ft scale uses about 15g of resin, so the cost is about 38p.

 

Total material cost for a B-7 turnout base in 4mm/ft scale is therefore 34p + 38p = 72p at current Amazon prices.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, KeithHC said:

Once the plan is sliced that will give you an estimate of length of filament and approx cost. If you look back on this thread Hayfield has outlined some estimated costs for a typical turnout. I seam to recall that in filament about 40p similar in resin and about £1.00 for rail. Ok it does not take into account the machine cost and labour cost. But no matter what it still works out a lot cheaper than any other method. However it is the flexibility that this system gives. For me the ability to produce a more realistic set of track work is key.

 

Keith

 

 

Keith

 

For some strange reason I have been working out my costs based on £21 a 1k reel, I actually paid £16.50, so my figures can be reduced by an appropriate amount, it was still very cheap at the inflated price. When I first ordered resin it was £32 a litre, its now dropped to £25. I printed out a B6 template and it took 22g of filament 36.3p

 

A big BUT, don't look at the bottom line

 

Firstly the ease of build is far more important, no need for expensive jigs or gauges. No need for specialist tools or the ability to fabricate subassemblies accurately

Secondly you get a level of detail not seen in RTR or many hand built turnouts

Thirdly total flexibility of the geometry

For the more experienced user flexibility of output 

 

Rail is a different story, you need approximately 1.5 m for a standard turnout, you now have to pay up to £2.10 per meter. As retailers restock rail, the price has really jumped up

Still plug track has really shaken up track building. Its got to the point that I have quite a lot of old SMP & C&L used flexi track which I re-railed with new yard lengths of HiNi rail, that I am thinking of binning the track bases to reuse the rail

 

Plug track is not for everyone, but then I guess finescale modelling is not for everyone. For those wanting track up to the same standards of the stock they are able to buy, it is one of the answers.

For those who do not have the skills to build scale trackwork using traditional methods, it is the answer

Likewise it will allow 00 gauge modelers an easy route to migrate to EM or P4 gauges

 

Cost in obtaining the printers may be an issue for many, so share the expense with others, perhaps join a club where the club or members use these machines, where there is a will there is always a way

[hayfield]

Phase 2 of 3D track building about to commence

 

 

The printer is now unpacked and the basic set up has been completed, a couple of things to do and get before I start printing. But thankfully I have been supplied with a test file to get me going by Martin, then its simply learn how the print process works

 

Then understand better how to make the print files, unlike the FDM printing the print time is only half an hour or so, but it needs both rigorous cleaning and then fixing under UV light

[KeithHC]

Well done John mine is still in its box. I have a few bits of housekeeping or should it be garagekeeping to do before I start up the geetech. I am going to build an enclosure so that I can keep some heat in to start the print. Likewise the resin that was due to arrive in January is now to hand.

 

Keith

[hayfield]

12 hours ago, KeithHC said:

Well done John mine is still in its box. I have a few bits of housekeeping or should it be garagekeeping to do before I start up the geetech. I am going to build an enclosure so that I can keep some heat in to start the print. Likewise the resin that was due to arrive in January is now to hand.

 

Keith

 

Keith

 

Perhaps a greenhouse seed tray heat map might help, they are cheap to both buy and run. But this time of year the garage is not the best of environments for resin printing

[martin_wynne]

@hayfield

 

Hi John,

 

3D printing using water-washable resin on the Alkaid printer:

 

1. negotiate a cease-fire in the kitchen.

 

2. shake the bottle of resin well, and leave it to stand for a while for any froth to clear.

 

3. if cold, run the bottle under the hot tap to warm it up.

 

4. remove the protection films from both sides of the tank base, and fix it on the printer.

 

5. remove the protection film (if any) from the build plate, and clean the build surface in hot soapy water before using it for the first time. Rinse and dry it.

 

6. fix it on the printer. Tighten the top knob firmly. Unlike FDM printing, there is some force involved in resin printing and things can come loose if not tightened firmly.

 

7. make sure the 4 levelling screws are loose, and switch on.

 

8. perform the levelling process as explained in the manual and in James's video:

 

Alkaid video

 

9. take some time to get this right -- with luck you will only need to do it once. Nip up all 4 screws first, and then tighten them very firmly without disturbing the levelling.

 

10. exclude all daylight, and then half fill the tank with resin.

 

11. put the yellow cover on the printer. You can allow daylight while the cover is on.

 

12. plug in the USB stick containing the CTB print file. On the Alkaid the USB socket is at the back (and upside down). It's a lot easier using one of these:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DX59EAG

 

13. use the touch screen to find the file and start the print. While printing some slurping and sucking noises are normal.

 

14. for 4mm scale chairs it will take about 25 minutes. Leave it dripping for about 5 minutes afterwards.

 

15. exclude daylight again. Remove the yellow cover and place an old biscuit-tin lid or piece of card over the whole tank area to catch any further drips while removing and handling the build plate.

 

16. swish the build plate in a bowl of warm water. At this stage the chairs are soft and delicate, so don't bump them against the bottom of the bowl. Using a soft brush such as a pastry brush, wash 95% of the surplus resin from the build plate and around the chairs. The water will be contaminated with resin, so don't pour it down the drain.

 

17. plunge the build plate up and down vigorously in a bucket of warmish water. This is to remove the remaining 5% of resin, and force wash water through the tiny slots for the loose jaws, and ensure there is no surplus resin left in the slots.

 

18. cover the tank with kitchen foil, and put the yellow cover back on the printer. You can now allow daylight again.

 

19. dry the build plate and chairs with a hair dryer, or leave them on the radiator while you have a nice boiled egg and read the latest issue of the Railway Modeller. The chairs must be fully dry before UV curing.

 

20. examine all the chairs carefully. Make sure none are missing or only partially printed. If so it is bad news -- you will need to clean out the tank and filter the resin to find the missing bits before you can print again. N.B. if loose jaws are missing they may have printed normally and be found detached in the wash water.

 

21. holding the build plate over a soft landing such as a piece of foam or bubble wrap, gently prise each raft from the build plate using a window scraper. At this stage the chairs are still soft and delicate, so handle them carefully.

 

22. collect up the rafts and expose them on both sides to UV light using whatever means you have available, until they are fully cured. Depending on the power of the UV this might take 10-20 minutes. Or if using a sunny window cill, several hours.

 

23. they will harden further over the next few days, and the rafts will very likely curl.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited December 14, 2023 by martin_wynne
typo

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

@hayfield

 

Hi John,

 

1. negotiate a cease-fire in the kitchen.

 

2. shake the bottle of resin well, and leave it to stand for a while for any froth to clear.

 

3. if cold, run the bottle under the hot tap to warm it up.

 

4. remove the protection films from both sides of the tank base, and fix it on the printer.

 

5. remove the protection film (if any) from the build plate, and clean the build surface in hot soapy water before using it for the first time. Rinse and dry it.

 

6. fix it on the printer. Tighten the top knob firmly. Unlike FDM printing, there is some force involved in resin printing and things can come loose if not tightened firmly.

 

7. make sure the 4 levelling screws are loose, and switch on.

 

8. perform the levelling process as explained in the manual and in James's video:

 

Alkaid video

 

9. take some time to get this right -- with luck you will only need to do it once. Nip up all 4 screws first, and then tighten them very firmly without disturbing the levelling.

 

10. exclude all daylight, and half fill the tank with resin.

 

11. put the yellow cover on the printer. You can allow daylight while the cover is on.

 

12. plug in the USB stick containing the CTB print file. On the Alkaid the USB socket is at the back (and upside down). It's a lot easier using one of these:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DX59EAG

 

13. use the touch screen to find the file and start the print.

 

14. for 4mm scale chairs it will take about 25 minutes. Leave it dripping for about 5 minutes afterwards.

 

15. exclude daylight again. Remove the yellow cover and place an old biscuit-tin lid or piece of card over the whole tank area to catch any further drips while removing and handling the build plate.

 

16. swish the build plate in a bowl of warm water. At this stage the chairs are soft and delicate, so don't bump them against the bottom of the bowl. Using a soft brush such as a pastry brush, wash 95% of the surplus resin from the build plate and around the chairs. The water will be contaminated with resin, so don't pour it down the drain.

 

17. plunge the build plate up and down vigorously in a bucket of warmish water. This is to remove the remaining 5% of resin, and force wash water through the tiny slots for the loose jaws, and ensure there is no surplus resin left in the slots.

 

18. cover the tank with kitchen foil, and put the yellow cover back on the printer. You can now allow daylight again.

 

19. dry the build plate and chairs with a hair dryer, or leave them on the radiator while you have a nice boiled egg and read the latest issue of the Railway Modeller. The chairs must be fully dry before UV curing.

 

20. examine all the chairs carefully. Make sure none are missing or only partially printed. If so it is bad news -- you will need to clean out the tank and filter the resin to find the missing bits before you can print again. N.B. if loose jaws are missing they may have printed normally and be found detached in the wash water.

 

21. holding the build plate over a soft landing such as a piece of foam or bubble wrap, gently prise each raft from the build plate using a window scraper. At this stage the chairs are still soft and delicate, so handle them carefully.

 

22. collect up the rafts and expose them on both sides to UV light using whatever means you have available, until they are fully cured. Depending on the power of the UV this might take 10-20 minutes. Or if using a sunny window cill, several hours.

 

23. they will harden further over the next few days, and the rafts will very likely curl.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

Perfect check list/ introduction / instructions to resin printing

 

Thank you

[hayfield]

 

 

Another rail filing jig being printed and in my opinion the best/most useful in the range

 

This is an A switch front left side, which easily allows the user to form the inside part of the left hand switch rail. Takes 5.75 hours to print and only costs about a £ in filament, the bonus is its reusable

[bradfordbuffer]

2 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

@hayfield

 

Hi John,

 

3D printing using water-washable resin on the Alkaid printer:

 

1. negotiate a cease-fire in the kitchen.

 

2. shake the bottle of resin well, and leave it to stand for a while for any froth to clear.

 

3. if cold, run the bottle under the hot tap to warm it up.

 

4. remove the protection films from both sides of the tank base, and fix it on the printer.

 

5. remove the protection film (if any) from the build plate, and clean the build surface in hot soapy water before using it for the first time. Rinse and dry it.

 

6. fix it on the printer. Tighten the top knob firmly. Unlike FDM printing, there is some force involved in resin printing and things can come loose if not tightened firmly.

 

7. make sure the 4 levelling screws are loose, and switch on.

 

8. perform the levelling process as explained in the manual and in James's video:

 

Alkaid video

 

9. take some time to get this right -- with luck you will only need to do it once. Nip up all 4 screws first, and then tighten them very firmly without disturbing the levelling.

 

10. exclude all daylight, and then half fill the tank with resin.

 

11. put the yellow cover on the printer. You can allow daylight while the cover is on.

 

12. plug in the USB stick containing the CTB print file. On the Alkaid the USB socket is at the back (and upside down). It's a lot easier using one of these:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DX59EAG

 

13. use the touch screen to find the file and start the print.

 

14. for 4mm scale chairs it will take about 25 minutes. Leave it dripping for about 5 minutes afterwards.

 

15. exclude daylight again. Remove the yellow cover and place an old biscuit-tin lid or piece of card over the whole tank area to catch any further drips while removing and handling the build plate.

 

16. swish the build plate in a bowl of warm water. At this stage the chairs are soft and delicate, so don't bump them against the bottom of the bowl. Using a soft brush such as a pastry brush, wash 95% of the surplus resin from the build plate and around the chairs. The water will be contaminated with resin, so don't pour it down the drain.

 

17. plunge the build plate up and down vigorously in a bucket of warmish water. This is to remove the remaining 5% of resin, and force wash water through the tiny slots for the loose jaws, and ensure there is no surplus resin left in the slots.

 

18. cover the tank with kitchen foil, and put the yellow cover back on the printer. You can now allow daylight again.

 

19. dry the build plate and chairs with a hair dryer, or leave them on the radiator while you have a nice boiled egg and read the latest issue of the Railway Modeller. The chairs must be fully dry before UV curing.

 

20. examine all the chairs carefully. Make sure none are missing or only partially printed. If so it is bad news -- you will need to clean out the tank and filter the resin to find the missing bits before you can print again. N.B. if loose jaws are missing they may have printed normally and be found detached in the wash water.

 

21. holding the build plate over a soft landing such as a piece of foam or bubble wrap, gently prise each raft from the build plate using a window scraper. At this stage the chairs are still soft and delicate, so handle them carefully.

 

22. collect up the rafts and expose them on both sides to UV light using whatever means you have available, until they are fully cured. Depending on the power of the UV this might take 10-20 minutes. Or if using a sunny window cill, several hours.

 

23. they will harden further over the next few days, and the rafts will very likely curl.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Helpful too do list....may I add for them new to 3d printing...when you get print failure.....not if but when ...it happens you may find bits stuck to fep ...on tank use clean vat function this will give you approx ¼mm layer on bottom of tank cured with all your failed bits stuck to cured resin....drain back in to resin bottle via funnel and filter don't clean tank poor resin back in and start again...

I use to clean resin tank and fep each failed print no need if all failed bits out of tank.

G

[martin_wynne]

6 minutes ago, bradfordbuffer said:

drain back in to resin bottle

 

Putting used resin back in the bottle of fresh resin will shorten its shelf life.

 

Filter it into a separate jam jar and wrap it in kitchen foil to keep out the light.

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

2 minutes ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Helpful too do list....may I add for them new to 3d printing...when you get print failure.....not if but when ...it happens you may find bits stuck to fep ...on tank use clean vat function this will give you approx ¼mm layer on bottom of tank cured with all your failed bits stuck to cured resin....drain back in to resin bottle via funnel and filter don't clean tank poor resin back in and start again...

I use to clean resin tank and fep each failed print no need if all failed bits out of tank.

G

 

 

Thanks,  on my to do/buy/obtain list is a large jar for this purpose. I have been warned

[hayfield]

Off topic a bit

 

  Resin printer being set up, this will provide the chairs to go into the plastic track and turnout bases

[bradfordbuffer]

1 hour ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Putting used resin back in the bottle of fresh resin will shorten its shelf life.

 

Filter it into a separate jam jar and wrap it in kitchen foil to keep out the light.

 

Martin.

Every day is a school day....didn't know that...suppose can keep old resin tub for reused and keep virgin resin in new pot....question why does it shorten shelf life?

[hayfield]

  S

 

started tp print the left hand switch rail inner jig

 

 

The jig finished, out together and shows how it clamps to the desk

 

 

The jig in action and rail easily and quickly filed

 

 

You can both see how the jig attaches to the bench and the affect of filing the rail angled in the jig

 

 

A cruel photographically poor close up of the filed rail, I may have either not filed the back of the rail fully or had the rail  too close to the right end (20mm) as I have slightly filed the foot

 

Still a result most would be very happy with, done very easily and quickly. A simple but genius design by Martin, plus all for about £1 a jig (3 needed) and best of all reusable

Martin, thanks for an early Christmas present 

[martin_wynne]

Hi John,

 

I think you had the rail too far forward in the jig. If you trim it here with sharp flush cutters, I think you will have a good blade, after fettling it in position:

 

 

For an "A" size blade, the planing length from the tip to where the filing runs out should be 22mm in 4mm/ft scale. The filing should run out at the same place on the front as on the back.

 

_________________

 

While still in the back jig, mark the rail at 20mm from the end of the jig. This will be the position of the finished blade tip. After removing it from the jig, you may want to pre-trim it at the 20mm mark using sharp flush cutters (e.g. as supplied with the Kingroon printer).

 

When inserting it in the front jig, the trimmed end should again be at 20mm from the end of the jig. At that point the end of the rail foot should be just flush with the filing face, so that it doesn't get filed. If not you can move the rail forward or back a little until it is -- this is due to normal variations in FDM printing. At that business end of the jig the bolt should be barely tight (almost loose), otherwise the rail will be pushed away from the jig and over-filed. Tighten the bolt at the other end fully to prevent the rail moving.

 

After filing, the blade should come to a sharp knife edge at the tip, with the rail foot barely touched. Some care is needed in locating the rail in the jig to achieve this. If filing the back has caused the filed end to curl slightly, it needs to be straightened to lie flush in the front jig.

 

The default filing angle for the front jigs is 17.5 degrees. If you find with your rail section that you are filing too much of the rail foot, the angle can be increased in the Templot settings and another jig made.

 

There is more to these jigs than meets the eye, and some practice is needed. 🙂

 

Full jig instructions: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/using-the-templot-rail-filing-jigs.728/

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

56 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

Hi John,

 

I think you had the rail too far forward in the jig. If you trim it here with sharp flush cutters, I think you will have a good blade, after fettling it in position:

 

 

For an "A" size blade, the planing length from the tip to where the filing runs out should be 22mm in 4mm/ft scale. The filing should run out at the same place on the front as on the back.

 

_________________

 

While still in the back jig, mark the rail at 20mm from the end of the jig. This will be the position of the finished blade tip. After removing it from the jig, you may want to pre-trim it at the 20mm mark using sharp flush cutters (e.g. as supplied with the Kingroon printer).

 

When inserting it in the front jig, the trimmed end should again be at 20mm from the end of the jig. At that point the end of the rail foot should be just flush with the filing face, so that it doesn't get filed. If not you can move the rail forward or back a little until it is -- this is due to normal variations in FDM printing. At that business end of the jig the bolt should be barely tight (almost loose), otherwise the rail will be pushed away from the jig and over-filed. Tighten the bolt at the other end fully to prevent the rail moving.

 

After filing, the blade should come to a sharp knife edge at the tip, with the rail foot barely touched. Some care is needed in locating the rail in the jig to achieve this. If filing the back has caused the filed end to curl slightly, it needs to be straightened to lie flush in the front jig.

 

The default filing angle for the front jigs is 17.5 degrees. If you find with your rail section that you are filing too much of the rail foot, the angle can be increased in the Templot settings and another jig made.

 

There is more to these jigs than meets the eye, and some practice is needed. 🙂

 

Full jig instructions: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/using-the-templot-rail-filing-jigs.728/

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

 

I had the rails 20mm from the end, I either had not filed the back enough and or not carefully located the end of the switch rail in the jig (s)

 

I appreciate we have to get it right, but it was the first trial  of a new method, the result in my opinion is probably far better than the majority of hand built switch blades I have seen. When you consider how much time was spent on filing and the ease in making them, its testament to the quality of design. A bit of practice will make even better ones, and not a £40 jig in sight 

[martin_wynne]

@hayfield

 

Hi John,

 

Many thanks for posting those photos. After thinking about them and tinkering with the filing jigs, I have decided to make a couple of changes:

1. for the switch front jigs I have increased the default slope angle from 17.5 degrees to 20 degrees:

 

 

This will better protect the rail foot from being filed at the blade tip. This will be in the next program update. You can of course set this angle to whatever you want.

2. for all the switch jigs, front and back, I now suggest applying a strip of sticky tape down the face of the jig at the working end of the jig:



This will allow the bolt at that end to be tightened without pushing the rail at that end up out of the groove, causing over-filing. I previously suggested leaving the bolt at that end barely more than loosely nipped, but that is very subjective and I suspect most users were likely to over-tighten it.

This is electrical insulating tape, which is 5 thou thick. So increasing the groove depth at that end by 10 thou. This won't significantly affect the accuracy of the jig, but will ensure that the rail can lie flat in the groove. The bolt at the other end can be fully tightened to ensure that the rail is prevented from moving.

This applies only to the switch jigs and does not apply to the crossing jigs.

I shall experiment with adding this 5 thou padding in the STL file, but I suspect the use of tape will actually work better, and can be applied to any jigs which have already been printed.

cheers,

Martin.

[hayfield]

I will give the tape modification a test tomorrow and if I get time I will print a right hand side jig altered to 20 degrees and compare them

 

Glad it was not all of my own fault  😀

[hayfield]

I have just spent a few minutes in adding tape to my existing switch rail jigs

 

Please note the rails have been magnified many times and all blemishes therefore will be magnified

 

The back of the jig is nice and square only taking a minute or so

 

 

The inside of the switch rail, as the rail is held at two angles the inside part of the foot will be filed to a slight extent

 

 

Looking down on the top of the rail shows nice and even tapers

 

 

This is the foot of the rail. the upper side is the back of the rail which tapers

The lower part is the foot with no taper

 

 

Left is the left hand inside switch filing jig (angled for ease of filing on the bench), right is the rear switch filing jig

 

This switch rail was filed up in a minute or so and much easier than other methods I have used, they are multi use so can be used quite a few times and at about just over £1 in filament each are a sound investment, especially as premade machined switch rails cost £24 a pair, or society jigs cost £40 (will do A,B,C & D sizes) and another commercial jig is £50+ (switch and crossing jig)

Edited December 16, 2023 by hayfield

[Buhar]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

switch rails cost £24 a pair, or society jigs cost £40 (will do A,B,C & D sizes) and another commercial jig is £50+ (switch and crossing jig)

The maths around buying traditional jigs against buying a filament printer soon favour the latter, aside from track bases and then other useful bits.  Going from Templot to print without the angst of hoping your own drawing is watertight and viable is a real plus in moving to new technology.

 

Thank you John (plus James and Martin) for exploring this development.

[hayfield]

27 minutes ago, Buhar said:

The maths around buying traditional jigs against buying a filament printer soon favour the latter, aside from track bases and then other useful bits.  Going from Templot to print without the angst of hoping your own drawing is watertight and viable is a real plus in moving to new technology.

 

Thank you John (plus James and Martin) for exploring this development.

 

The maths are really stacked up in favor of 3D printed track. Probably about £1 will cover track bases from FDM printing and resin chairs

 

A full C&L kit is about £100 now and £50 for a basic kit where you have to prefabricate the switch and common crossings

British Finescale are excellent value as they are prefabricated and cost £30ish

 

A pack of copperclad will now set you back £33

Plastic timbers between £5 & £10

Plastic chairs between £25 & £50

Pre formed switch rails £24

Pre formed Common crossings £22

Pre formed vees £14

Rail costs are the same for all methods

 

RTR finescale turnouts start from £40

 

Perhaps the comparison between professionally milled and formed components is a bit unfair as is the comparison with full kits from C&L. But as you say excluding rail a few turnouts will cover the cost of printers

 

As for making the switch rails and common crossings, I have 3 society jigs each costing £40. The switch rail jig is not very easy to use

I also have a commercially available 1-6 Vee & switch rail filing jig, Its £50+ for 1 angle though it accepts code 75 to 100 flatbottom or bullhead rails. The switch rail only files the rear of the switch rail

 

The resin printers are now under £100, FDM printers start from £150 ish.  But this is the major cost upfront and done. Once you have finished track building  the printers can be used for other projects

 

As for the cost of a turnout, 50p for a resin base and the same for resin chairs, best of all these can be bespoke in design in angle and geometry

4 filing jigs will be about £5 and reusable if you use the same sizes/angles. Best of all building turnouts requires a minimum of skills, cutting, filing and bending. and the only soldering is mostly dropper wires.

 

There is a learning curve in learning how to use the machines, but after track building a whole new era of model making opens up

 

Of find a friend who is into 3D printing, which is a growing pastime of hidden printers, more that you would expect  

[martin_wynne]

17 minutes ago, hayfield said:

The maths are really stacked up in favor of 3D printed track. Probably about £1 will cover track bases from FDM printing and resin chairs

 

Yes, for a B-7 turnout in P4 the total cost of resin chairs and FDM printed base is about 80p. Slightly less for 00 and EM.

 

But please bear in mind that Templot plug track is simply my experimental hobby project. We are still a long way from a fully usable system. For example only yesterday from John's post here I realised that a modification to the switch rail jigs would be beneficial. So far it is possible to build ordinary bullhead turnouts and crossovers of any gauge or scale, but for more complex formations such as tandem turnouts, diamonds and slips I have not yet done the required chairs. I'm hoping to do some of them early in the New Year. There are also many other unfinished loose ends in the project, and some current Templot functions may change before we are done.

 

So far only REA chairs are done. Hopefully GWR chairs will follow in due course. Flat-bottom remains in the sunny uplands far away as far as Templot is concerned. But maybe not if someone else comes along with a similar system? Anyone?  

 

Martin.

[MarshLane]

@martin_wynne,

Sorry to hijack John's thread. I was talking to a friend of mine this afternoon who is involved in the use of commercial 3D printing as part of his day job - nothing to do with railways or models - and while he has a bit of an interest in model railways it doesn't extend beyond the Hornby trainset approach, fair enough each to their own.

 

But we were talking about various things and I was telling him what you had been doing with 3D printing of timbers and chairs, giving cost-effective, detailed, bespoke point and track work.  He raised a few eyebrows and commented (please note I am not saying this is  the defacto position, it is just his personal view) that given his experience of 3D resin especially in his day job, his view was while it is improving, the development of the resins was not yet at a level for model railway use, even for hobbyists - that opinion being based on the durability and longer-term use of the 3D printed items.  His view was that model railways tend to be long-term projects, and (my emphasis) in his view and opinion the resins that are around currently, at the prices people would be willing to pay, do not have the longer term life that would be necessary.  Now ok, we did not define how long the long-term period was, but the inference was that over time the resin would/could start to be breakdown.

 

I commented that the initial output from various people looked very good, and I had read that you'd been working on the 3D track project for a couple of years now, maybe longer.  I am assuming, given your scientific approach to things that some of the early FDM and resin prints you did are still hanging around purposely to see how things survive long term.   But I wondered what your view was - obviously if the resin does breakdown over a period or after exposure to sunlight and becomes brittle that would be an issue, and I acknowledge there are a large number of different resin and fillament types.  It may well be (unbeknown to me) that the types of source material being suggested are better quality or better for long-term use.

 

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts - for my part, can I say I have no experience of 3D printing and neither me (nor my mate) are claiming to be experts.  It was just two modellers talking things through - so there is no criticism or doubting in anyway of the work Martin is doing, promoting or experimenting with.

 

Rich

[martin_wynne]

25 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

Martin is doing, promoting or experimenting with.

@MarshLane

 

Under NO circumstances whatsoever am I promoting anything.

 

Templot is my hobby, nothing more. Others are welcome to join in if they wish, or not if they don't.

 

Martin.