Five volunteers SUSPENDED from NYMR

[Wheatley]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

There are other lines which would be better sustained under Network Rail, like the Okehampton reopening… in those instances arguably the aims of early preservationists may actually be reached !

Even then the conflict doesn't end and not everybody is happy. I arrived on the S&C as Ops Supervisor shortly after Mr Portillo reprieved it, there was an ongoing conflict between those who recognised that it was part of a national network and was very expensive to operate on a day to day basis (7 signal boxes staffed on 2 shifts 7 days a week, plus reliefs, 6? P.Way gangs, 2 station staff, 2 supervisors and a small Works gang, not including maintenance teams shared with other routes like the S&T) and those who wanted it preserved in aspic almost as a sort of long extension of the K&WVR. 

 

We had a project manager appointed by BRB to oversee improvements (Geoff Bounds, absolutely top bloke but we were only a part of his portfolio and if course there was no budget) but indifferent management at Regional Railways HQ although the local RRNE team were generally supportive. 

 

So along with some rejoicing at the modern rolling stock (156s), the general painting and tidying up which was starting to take place and some fairly serious attempts to drum up business by both RRNE and the FoSCL, I was also dealing with complaints that the loco-hauled Nottingham - Glasgows had not been reintroduced, the new footbridge at Settle wasn't a MR one, the new signalbox at Kirby Thore for the desulfo gypsum traffic (actual brand new revenue earning freight) was a portacabin and not one of the ex-Leeds northwest MR boxes re-purposed, and that the platform lighting at Settle and Appleby (the only stations with more than one lamp post each) had not immediately been ripped out and replaced with heritage gas lamps. 

 

We did our best to stave off the whinging where we could, the reason that the signalboxes are still maroon and cream to this day is because Paul Holden took one look at the RRNE painting schedule (blue white and grey) and quietly asked the Works Supervisor if he could accidentally order maroon and cream instead, and we diverted an offer of surplus bright red Macemain seats to stations which still had wooden benches, and swapped for their benches. We couldnt do anything about the gash timber platform extentions to accommodate the 156s, although they were at least lit !

 

I also managed to generate 3 formal complaints because I

a) cancelled the Appleby stop on Terence Cuneo's birthday special (which broke my heart but was at ICSTU's request because it was over an hour late and was in danger of losing its path back to Southall if it was too late rejoining the WCML)

b) had Bahamas piloted back from Carlisle in light steam behind a 47 after it started 23 separate fires, and then got a b*****ing for not cancelling it outright because of the fire risk and

c) recessed a steam hauled charter at Appleby because the Sprinter was a block behind it, which meant they couldn't do any run pasts. 

 

As late as Serco/Abellio days there was so much whining about digital platform information screens "spoiling the look" that the Northern retail team gave up and diverted them to other stations. The franchise commitment was to deliver 'X' number of them, it didn't really matter where so the S&C went without. 

Edited January 4 by Wheatley

[08221]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Torbay is an example of one of the best, but its not a place for enthusiasts, and hasnt really ever been. Its success isnt down to being steam, but connecting to a beauty spot, and a beach and arguably should still be part of Network Rail… i’m sure a 150/2 would be fine in the off season, or start/end of day.

 

 

 

 

 I always try to visit both the Torbay steam railway and the South Devon railway when I visit my family in Torbay.

 

They are very different lines in many ways but both are equally enjoyable days out. 

[RJS1977]

9 hours ago, pheaton said:

 

 

i cant think of any railways that are now run by a bunch of middle aged blokes with a load of spare time on there hands...

 

I can! I mentioned one not long ago..... ;-)

[adb968008]

40 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

Even then the conflict doesn't end and not everybody is happy. I arrived on the S&C as Ops Supervisor shortly after Mr Portillo reprieved it, there was an ongoing conflict between those who recognised that it was part of a national network and was very expensive to operate on a day to day basis (7 signal boxes staffed on 2 shifts 7 days a week, plus reliefs, 6? P.Way gangs, 2 station staff, 2 supervisors and a small Works gang, not including maintenance teams shared with other routes like the S&T) and those who wanted it preserved in aspic almost as a sort of long extension of the K&WVR. 

 

We had a project manager appointed by BRB to oversee improvements (Geoff Bounds, absolutely top bloke but we were only a part of his portfolio and if course there was no budget) but indifferent management at Regional Railways HQ although the local RRNE team were generally supportive. 

 

So along with some rejoicing at the modern rolling stock (156s), the general painting and tidying up which was starting to take place and some fairly serious attempts to drum up business by both RRNE and the FoSCL, I was also dealing with complaints that the loco-hauled Nottingham - Glasgows had not been reintroduced, the new footbridge at Settle wasn't a MR one, the new signalbox at Kirby Thore for the desulfo gypsum traffic (actual brand new revenue earning freight) was a portacabin and not one of the ex-Leeds northwest MR boxes re-purposed, and that the platform lighting at Settle and Appleby (the only stations with more than one lamp post each) had not immediately been ripped out and replaced with heritage gas lamps. 

 

We did our best to stave off the whinging where we could, the reason that the signalboxes are still maroon and cream to this day is because Paul Holden took one look at the RRNE painting schedule (blue white and grey) and quietly asked the Works Supervisor if he could accidentally order maroon and cream instead, and we diverted an offer of surplus bright red Macemain seats to stations which still had wooden benches, and swapped for their benches. We couldnt do anything about the gash timber platform extentions to accommodate the 156s, although they were at least lit !

 

I also managed to generate 3 formal complaints because I

a) cancelled the Appleby stop on Terence Cuneo's birthday special (which broke my heart but was at ICSTU's request because it was over an hour late and was in danger of losing its path back to Southall if it was too late rejoining the WCML)

b) had Bahamas piloted back from Carlisle in light steam behind a 47 after it started 23 separate fires, and then got a b*****ing for not cancelling it outright because of the fire risk and

c) recessed a steam hauled charter at Appleby because the Sprinter was a block behind it, which meant they couldn't do any run pasts. 

 

As late as Serco/Abellio days there was so much whining about digital platform information screens "spoiling the look" that the Northern retail team gave up and diverted them to other stations. The franchise commitment was to deliver 'X' number of them, it didn't really matter where so the S&C went without. 

God forbid someone electrifies and ertms’s the s&c then.

 

wires over Ribblehead must only be used to hang those who approved it from.

 

🤩

Edited January 4 by adb968008

[rodent279]

The only thing that surprises me is that no one complained that the 156's weren't painted in crimson lake with fake panelling.

(Or did they....???)

[adb968008]

32 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

I can! I mentioned one not long ago..... ;-)

There not middle aged any more.. there old aged.
😜

[adb968008]

4 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

The only thing that surprises me is that no one complained that the 156's weren't painted in crimson lake with fake panelling.

(Or did they....???)

Almost….

Flickr/not mine

 

But it is a legit livery for a preserved railway someday..

Edited January 4 by adb968008

[009 micro modeller]

46 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

Even then the conflict doesn't end and not everybody is happy. I arrived on the S&C as Ops Supervisor shortly after Mr Portillo reprieved it, there was an ongoing conflict between those who recognised that it was part of a national network and was very expensive to operate on a day to day basis (7 signal boxes staffed on 2 shifts 7 days a week, plus reliefs, 6? P.Way gangs, 2 station staff, 2 supervisors and a small Works gang, not including maintenance teams shared with other routes like the S&T) and those who wanted it preserved in aspic almost as a sort of long extension of the K&WVR. 

 

We had a project manager appointed by BRB to oversee improvements (Geoff Bounds, absolutely top bloke but we were only a part of his portfolio and if course there was no budget) but indifferent management at Regional Railways HQ although the local RRNE team were generally supportive. 

 

So along with some rejoicing at the modern rolling stock (156s), the general painting and tidying up which was starting to take place and some fairly serious attempts to drum up business by both RRNE and the FoSCL, I was also dealing with complaints that the loco-hauled Nottingham - Glasgows had not been reintroduced, the new footbridge at Settle wasn't a MR one, the new signalbox at Kirby Thore for the desulfo gypsum traffic (actual brand new revenue earning freight) was a portacabin and not one of the ex-Leeds northwest MR boxes re-purposed, and that the platform lighting at Settle and Appleby (the only stations with more than one lamp post each) had not immediately been ripped out and replaced with heritage gas lamps. 

 

We did our best to stave off the whinging where we could, the reason that the signalboxes are still maroon and cream to this day is because Paul Holden took one look at the RRNE painting schedule (blue white and grey) and quietly asked the Works Supervisor if he could accidentally order maroon and cream instead, and we diverted an offer of surplus bright red Macemain seats to stations which still had wooden benches, and swapped for their benches. We couldnt do anything about the gash timber platform extentions to accommodate the 156s, although they were at least lit !

 

I also managed to generate 3 formal complaints because I

a) cancelled the Appleby stop on Terence Cuneo's birthday special (which broke my heart but was at ICSTU's request because it was over an hour late and was in danger of losing its path back to Southall if it was too late rejoining the WCML)

b) had Bahamas piloted back from Carlisle in light steam behind a 47 after it started 23 separate fires, and then got a b*****ing for not cancelling it outright because of the fire risk and

c) recessed a steam hauled charter at Appleby because the Sprinter was a block behind it, which meant they couldn't do any run pasts. 

 

As late as Serco/Abellio days there was so much whining about digital platform information screens "spoiling the look" that the Northern retail team gave up and diverted them to other stations. The franchise commitment was to deliver 'X' number of them, it didn't really matter where so the S&C went without. 

You might enjoy this article: https://thebeautyoftransport.com/2016/11/30/the-truth-or-something-beautiful-on-the-confusion-of-public-transport-with-tourism-history-or-character/

 

(Well maybe ‘enjoy’ is the wrong word, but you know what I mean).

[Wheatley]

39 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

You might enjoy this article: https://thebeautyoftransport.com/2016/11/30/the-truth-or-something-beautiful-on-the-confusion-of-public-transport-with-tourism-history-or-character/

 

(Well maybe ‘enjoy’ is the wrong word, but you know what I mean).

 

Thank you ! I feel his pain ! 

 

47 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

God forbid someone electrifies and ertms’s the s&c then.

 

wires over Ribblehead must only be used to hang those who approved it from.

 

🤩

ERTMS (or whatever replaces it, maybe something which actually works) will come eventually, more likely in the shortish term is replacement of Low House and Culgaith boxes by CCTV crossings, and possibly some of the others with more IBHs and axle counters. Fortunately Network Rail has much more important things to spend its money on for the next couple of Control Periods. 

 

You might be safe from wires for a bit, apart from the odd short section to charge up the 195-replacement BEMUs ;-)

 

[Northmoor]

2 hours ago, rab said:

 

While I agree with you on this point, I can't help wondering

how many people felt the same looking at Barry scrapyard.

Building new fireboxes, casting new cylinders, nah, you got to be joking!!

But look what's been achieved.

 

So, restoring failed hardware, unsupported software.

 

A lot of the work that's been done on preserved railways

is down to retired railway employees sharing their years

of acquired knowledge and skill

 

There is a new generation of techies heading towards retirement now,

who knows where their acquired knowledge and will be put to use.

Yes and no.  The skills to work with steam equipment didn't disappear, they just became more specialist and much steam locomotive work is repetitive, skilled manual work (e,g, fitting firebox crown stays).

 

I work in the field of trying to keep old, obsolete electronics in service and while there are already companies (and individuals) with the expertise to reverse engineer 1990s electronics, I don't think too many loco-owning groups or individuals will be able to afford £100k+ to replace one card in one loco to keep it operational, such that it can earn them a couple of thousand a year in hire fees.  The specialists usual customers can justify spending six-figures because without it, they might lose that amount of income PER WEEK.  All the cost of reverse engineering is in the design, test and approval, which you can divide by the size of your fleet.

 

A precedent was set with 87101 about 20 years ago (I helped cannibalise it with the ACLG, we recovered the unique thyristor control cabinet and transformer); there came a point where the operator could no longer justify sourcing more one-off components for a one-off locomotive which could still at that time, earn £100s per day. 

[25kV]

17 hours ago, adb968008 said:

God forbid someone electrifies and ertms’s the s&c then.

 

wires over Ribblehead must only be used to hang those who approved it from.

 

🤩

You have inadvertently stumbled upon one of my many OO (massive) diorama ideas.   😲

I'm still deciding which OHLE portal design will annoy people the most.

[rodent279]

30 minutes ago, 25kV said:

You have inadvertently stumbled upon one of my many OO (massive) diorama ideas.   😲

I'm still deciding which OHLE portal design will annoy people the most.

Why not go for an Italian style tri-phase system, with 2 contact wires and 2-C-2 electric locos with water cooled rheostats? Maybe add in a few inside cylinder outside valve 2-6-0s just for good measure?

[Reorte]

18 hours ago, adb968008 said:

God forbid someone electrifies and ertms’s the s&c then.

 

wires over Ribblehead must only be used to hang those who approved it from.

 

🤩

You were doing well there until the smiley made it clear it was sarcasm! 🙂

 

Never understood people who want these sorts of changes - which is quite different from people who say they're needed, that it simply gets impractical or impossibly uneconomic and so on not to.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, 25kV said:

You have inadvertently stumbled upon one of my many OO (massive) diorama ideas.   😲

I'm still deciding which OHLE portal design will annoy people the most.

Create the S&C and put it into a Devon/Cornish context… that’ll set some sparks flying…

 

Appleby-in-Exmoor…

Kirkby Regis

Dentmouth

Par-in-Ribblesdale

Tamarhead viaduct

 

 

Edited January 5 by adb968008

[woodenhead]

However electrifying the Settle and Carlisle (and some other lines) would offer a clear electric diversionary route for anglo-scottish services for both the ECML (via Leeds) and WCML (with some additional wiring), as would Newcastle to Carlisle.

 

Whether it would be economical is similar to building an inland route in the South West to avoid Dawlish.

 

But what the heck this has to do with 5 volunteers on the NYMR I don't know.

[adb968008]

2 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

However electrifying the Settle and Carlisle (and some other lines) would offer a ….

 

But what the heck this has to do with 5 volunteers on the NYMR I don't know.

Next project after nymr ?

[woodenhead]

5 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Next project after nymr ?

It would take the 5 volunteers a long time to string the S&C 😄

[adb968008]

Just now, woodenhead said:

It would take the 5 volunteers a long time to string the S&C 😄

Took 10 years to do Bolton to Preston, I think that was a 2 man job.

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Took 10 years to do Bolton to Preston, I think that was a 2 man job.

Only at the weekend, in the week they were working on CrossRail.

[009 micro modeller]

3 hours ago, 25kV said:

You have inadvertently stumbled upon one of my many OO (massive) diorama ideas.   😲

I'm still deciding which OHLE portal design will annoy people the most.

 

2 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Why not go for an Italian style tri-phase system, with 2 contact wires and 2-C-2 electric locos with water cooled rheostats? Maybe add in a few inside cylinder outside valve 2-6-0s just for good measure?

Set it in the 50s (or even earlier) and pretend that the original Lancaster-Morecambe-Heysham electrification had been expanded to cover the wider region.

 

Actually, on second thoughts, that idea sounds almost boringly plausible and appropriate. So perhaps you could have a few of these, scaled down a bit to UK loading gauge of course, to haul the longer distance loco-hauled trains? They’d look nice in MR Crimson Lake at least. And to really wind up erm, entertain everyone at exhibitions, don’t forget the electric-steam locomotives (modelled by randomly sticking a pantograph on converting various Hornby 0-4-0s) for use as banking locos.

[john new]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Next project after nymr ?

When I was volunteering on the NYMR back in the 1970s and 80s the joke at the time (after a few sherbets) was about the future Pickering - Levisham electrification scheme. Phase one was the modern l/crossing and colour light signal gear that had gone in/was going in.

 

The post does mention the NYMR and Levisham so a smidgeon closer to being back onto the topic!

[009 micro modeller]

3 minutes ago, john new said:

When I was volunteering on the NYMR back in the 1970s and 80s the joke at the time (after a few sherbets) was about the future Pickering - Levisham electrification scheme. Phase one was the modern l/crossing and colour light signal gear that had gone in/was going in.

 

The post does mention the NYMR and Levisham so a smidgeon closer to being back onto the topic!

Well, I suppose electric trains would help with the steep gradients on the Moors. A shame none of these survived as they’d have been vaguely relevant (though there is the ES1 at Shildon, albeit on a lower voltage)…

 

(And no, this isn’t a serious suggestion, before anyone suggests creating a new-build EE1 😅)

[papagolfjuliet]

On 29/12/2023 at 19:25, Blandford1969 said:

DBS checks can only be carried out in certain circumstances where the person will be a:

Teacher

Childminder

Social Worker

Medical professional

Foster Carer

 

Most people on railways do not come into contact with minors so this is a bit of a red herring. Its worth adding you that on many railways the structure means volunteers do have a 'manager' be that Station Master, Gaurds/Signaling/Loco Inspector etc. 

 

Back in the 90s - before the days of DBS checks - the Ffestiniog took somebody on who subsequently turned out to be a convicted child molester. They sacked him, naturally enough, and he sued them for unfair dismissal and won a sizeable sum of money. There's an element of self-protection in DBS checks even if the person being checked is unlikely to interact with children as part of the job.

[papagolfjuliet]

On 23/11/2023 at 21:45, figworthy said:

 

I am not a lawyer.

 

30+ years ago, I had the dubious pleasure of having to track down owners of abandoned boats at a sailing club.  In some cases, they existed in the club records, and I was able to contact the last known owner (who invariably turned out to be the current owner, who had "forgotten" to pay for its storage), but in other cases, the trail went cold, letters were either returned unopened, or lost.  I spoke to the RYA's legal department, and they had some standard advice on what to do.  I can't remember what it was, but I suspect that it won't have changed much.  There are a few lawyers hereabouts, perhaps they can comment.

 

Adrian

 

This is also the reason why vandalised gravestones are seldom repaired or righted - they are the property of the family of the deceased, and not of the church or local authority, meaning that they can't be touched without the permission of the family, so once a gravestone is knocked over it will probably stay knocked over because if as is usually the case you can't readily track down the descendants of the person whose grave has been vandalised then you can't readily repair it. There is one particular case of a Yorkshire church where the graveyard is the resting place of a famous author whose equally famous family are all buried in the grounds of a museum elsewhere, and whose grave is made of sandstone and faces out to sea with the result that it is badly eroded. There was a lengthy tussle between the church and the museum over ownership not only of the grave but also of the body, which the museum would very much like to exhume and place with the rest of the family as (not to put too fine a point on it) a monetisable tourist attraction, the current upshot of which is that the body is still in situ but the grave has two gravestones: the original eroded one standing upright, and a new one laid flat on the ground beneath it.

 

Another case in point is the Royal Albert Hall. If you've ever watched concerts broadcast from there you'll have noticed that most of the boxes are always empty. This is because the Hall was funded by public subscription and the biggest subscribers got a box of their own in perpetuity, meaning that nobody except the descendants of that donor can use the things.

[papagolfjuliet]

On 04/01/2024 at 09:57, pheaton said:

 

i cant think of any railways that are now run by a bunch of middle aged blokes with a load of spare time

 

Many middle aged blokes don't have much spare time, for the simple reason that people are having kids much later. In the early days of the railway preservation movement by the time a man was 45 or so his kids had got married and left home. Now like as not a middle aged couple's kids are still at primary school.