Five volunteers SUSPENDED from NYMR

[6990WitherslackHall]

Five volunteers from the North Yorkshire Moors Railway have been suspended from the railway following an investigation into the unregulated activities of a group running one of the line’s historic stations.

 

The volunteers were from the Levisham Station Group and allegations against the group have been made by managers. Some of the allegations include:

 

Volunteers had built a turntable for trains without permission

 

They were charging for use of the free cottage and offering it as short break accommodation.

 

Volunteers were abusive and threatening towards staff

 

That ‘unknown’ persons were part of the group without going through the official recruitment process.

 

Parts of the station had been vandalised – with locks broken and superglued,‘values’ booklets ripped up and a framed photograph defaced

 

‘Misleading’ claims that Levisham Station was to close were also reportedly made.

 

The full article can be found Here

Edited November 17, 2023 by 6990WitherslackHall
Changed link for same article without paywall

[Nearholmer]

15 minutes ago, 6990WitherslackHall said:

Volunteers had built a turntable for trains without permission

Hard to understand how that could have gone unnoticed!

[Mallard60022]

Checks Date!

Phil

[woodenhead]

The FART team?

 

Edit: It appears to be the FARST team - Farworth Area Rolling Stock Team

Edited November 16, 2023 by woodenhead

[john new]

I know someone who was in the Levisham Station Group. They aren't happy with the NYMR's (mis?)management and forced abandonment of the group. I don't know details, and it wouldn't be appropriate to comment further on here even if I did; however, what is clear though from my conversations with X is that there are two versions/sides to the story. 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by john new
Grammar and punctuation.

[spamcan61]

Sounds like a cross between Father Ted  (with Pat Mustard as Stationmaster) and Oh! Mr. Porter.

[6990WitherslackHall]

20 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Hard to understand how that could have gone unnoticed!

The only turntable I'm aware of is the one at Pickering. 

 

So the question is where is the other one?

[rodent279]

Can't read the article, seems to be behind a paywall.

[papagolfjuliet]

3 minutes ago, 6990WitherslackHall said:

The only turntable I'm aware of is the one at Pickering. 

 

So the question is where is the other one?

 

A wagon turntable had been acquired for Levisham station yard. Anyway I was wondering where all the station group's wagons had gone and why there wasn't a Levisham update in the latest Moors Line.

[6990WitherslackHall]

1 minute ago, papagolfjuliet said:

A wagon turntable had been acquired for Levisham station yard. Anyway I was wondering where all the station group's wagons had gone and why there wasn't a Levisham update in the latest Moors Line.

Ohh. So it's not a loco turntable as I first thought. Where has it been built? 

[ejstubbs]

18 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Can't read the article, seems to be behind a paywall.

 

You need a 12ft ladder: https://12ft.io/https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/heritage-and-retro/heritage/five-volunteers-suspended-from-north-yorkshire-moors-railway-after-station-group-accused-of-carrying-out-unauthorised-work-and-taking-safety-risks-4411596 or a copy from an archive https://archive.is/uOG0x

 

According to a post on the Rail UK forums, the suspension happened a while back, and followed a warning that appeared to have been ignored: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/nymr-is-there-an-issue-at-levisham.253670/post-6386675 (note the date of that post).

Edited November 16, 2023 by ejstubbs

[Nearholmer]

Major fallings out between entrenched volunteer groups and new, professional management aren’t exactly a new thing at heritage sites in general, not just railways. I know of one such at a very important heritage location close to where I live, and the NT went through multiple ‘culture change’ battles a couple of decades ago when it started to try and broaden its appeal.

[PhilH]

6<>half dozen

[Trestrol]

Also other incidents not mentioned in the article regarding work undertaken on the neighbours land without permission. It's not hard to work out who the neighbour is.This was the more serious issue as it happened again after a previous warning.

[sir douglas]

Just from the article, there seems to be some mismanagement and miscommunication from both sides and the situation shouldnt have been able to escalate to this degree

[papagolfjuliet]

I don't like to think ill of a railway which I have loved since I was a very small child, but the word which keeps coming to mind is 'Washford.'

[papagolfjuliet]

The Daily Mail is on the case, complete with a photo of the wrong station and a caption describing Levisham station as a 'depot.' Strewth.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12758599/Heritage-railway-rocked-abuse-claims-Five-volunteers-suspended-threatening-kneecap-managers-police-launch-probe-accusations.html

[adb968008]

Daily Mail has got it now

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12758599/Heritage-railway-rocked-abuse-claims-Five-volunteers-suspended-threatening-kneecap-managers-police-launch-probe-accusations.html#reader-comments

seems a lot of people are confusing Levisham with Lewisham.

Its sad to wake up and yet again read a negative headline on a preserved line, and I believe maybe the 6th or 7th preserved line to negatively hit the headlines this year and further damage the reputation of the hobby that has taken 6 decades to build ? 

 

So another squabble in train land.

Why do preserved lines insist on embarrassing themselves like this ?

Enthusiasts are increasingly becoming despised and alienated by the very lines that they created.

 

And tomorrow there will be yet another appeal for enthusiasts to volunteer time and  money.

 

if the public cannot disconnect Lewisham and Levisham, and laugh at headlines like this, do you really think they will pony up ?

 

defacing a poster, a food kitty… super glueing locks…

its like primary school.

 

Passion and Politics collide.

 

Volunteer efforts and passion have little protections in law and few rights of recognition for their efforts.

Always sad to read of a life long dedicated volunteers being thrown out, without care, to learn they have wasted their lives for nothing and cast out by someone with no appreciation for their lifes work.
Ive heard sad outcomes of people finding themselves in such situations, it can put people in mentally bad places. 

I guess thats another station that few will care about in future and will now inevitably decline.

 

i’m sure there was a better way to handle this, clearly management politics havent done a good job to manage the passion if this is what the outcome was.
 

I see this all over the hobby, a failure in ability to manage volunteers. Its a very hard quality to focus a passionate resource that has no contractual or financial ties, much harder than managing employees. It can be the difference between greatness and failure.

its no longer the hobby it was, just remember the good times, because they are never coming back…

 

where is, was, could have been the wagon turntable pit at levisham anyway ?

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by adb968008

[MarkC]

The Daily Wail, as with the other rags, loves stories like this 😒

[rodent279]

I guess there's an element in the volunteering community that doesn't like taking instructions, being told what to do & what not to do, and thinks that because they are giving their time, labour skills etc freely, they are indispensable, and shouldn't be held to account.

It's also very easy to forget that a lot of volunteers in the heritage railway sector are either serving railwaymen/women, or were at some point in the past.

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, rodent279 said:

I guess there's an element in the volunteering community that doesn't like taking instructions, being told what to do & what not to do, and thinks that because they are giving their time, labour skills etc freely, they are indispensable, and shouldn't be held to account.

It's also very easy to forget that a lot of volunteers in the heritage railway sector are either serving railwaymen/women, or were at some point in the past.

Its all solvable by good communication.

generally speaking, from a helicopter view of the heritage rail industry, and not in nymr conflict specifically, 

Just because one earns a pay slip doesnt make one a “professional”, and just because one doesn't earn a payslip doesn't make them “unprofessional”.

Ive increasingly seen comments aimed in both directions disparaging each other on several lines and institutions.

 

it just means one has a contract to fulfill, in return for payment, the other has no contract and no payment.

but it does sometimes feel that rising to the top of a charity some have a feeling of deity, whilst some volunteers think they are free reign to do as they wish.
 

The other problem ive seen is passion vs payment, volunteers are almost always passionate (otherwise why are they doing it), but equally those on a payroll are only committed to their working hours and may have little or no enthusiasm for their subject. (This may even be true to the model railway hobby where some are just doing a job and have minimal interest in the hobby).

 

However the red flags would certainly be dampening the enthusiasm of a volunteer or demanding someone being paid to go beyond their contract. It does however cause miscommunication as one has different motivations and expectations of the other.

 

This seems to be a common thread among many of the events that have bubbled up this year on several heritage lines, especially when its older volunteers grating against younger paid management.

Edited November 17, 2023 by adb968008

[pete_mcfarlane]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

This seems to be a common thread among many of the events that have bubbled up this year on several heritage lines, especially when its older volunteers grating against younger paid management.

 

In my experience, the problem with older volunteers can be that policies on things like health and safety and safeguarding are continually tightened over time, so ways of working have to change. And this manifests itself as 'management are stupid because that's not how you do task X' from the volunteers.

 

Especially if people aren't talking to each other properly to begin with. 

 

 

[woodenhead]

3 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

 

In my experience, the problem with older volunteers can be that policies on things like health and safety and safeguarding are continually tightened over time, so ways of working have to change. And this manifests itself as 'management are stupid because that's not how you do task X' from the volunteers.

 

Especially if people aren't talking to each other properly to begin with. 

 

 

You've only got to look at many threads on here about 'Health and Safety gone mad' to know a lot of older people find it hard to relate to changes in the workplace and general life because it was perfectly acceptable when they were younger to do things people would now count as a risk and/or dangerous.

 

In my own job I've had to unlearn 20 years of bad best practice recently and no longer do I have one user account that is my main logon and also admin to a number of servers.  Does it make my job harder, yes, does it make our systems more secure, certainly, should I change practice, without a doubt I should.

[rodent279]

20 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

no longer do I have one user account that is my main logon and also admin to a number of servers.  Does it make my job harder, yes, does it make our systems more secure, certainly, should I change practice, without a doubt I should

I feel your pain, we have the same- main account only for login, all other systems separate user accounts that cannot be utilised by another main account. Once you've got the hang, it's easy enough though, it's the transition that's hard.

[cctransuk]

33 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

You've only got to look at many threads on here about 'Health and Safety gone mad' to know a lot of older people find it hard to relate to changes in the workplace and general life because it was perfectly acceptable when they were younger to do things people would now count as a risk and/or dangerous.

 

In my own job I've had to unlearn 20 years of bad best practice recently and no longer do I have one user account that is my main logon and also admin to a number of servers.  Does it make my job harder, yes, does it make our systems more secure, certainly, should I change practice, without a doubt I should.

 

We 'grumpies' fully appreciate that 'progress' continues to race ahead of us - we expect nothing less!

 

What we quibble about is whether there is any concrete evidence, in the form of quoted statistical evidence, that justifies the 'progress' in question.

 

Far too often, these 'advancements' in H&S and digital security are herealded as 'ground-breaking', but no-one ever asks about the basis on which the changes have been justified - beyond making (lucrative) work for those who come up with all this codswallop!

 

Yours cynically,

CJI.