Next Years Announcements (9th Jan btw)(not wish listing!, well that was the idea, but......)

[Black 5 Bear]

17 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Duke of York and Duke of Sussex; they just stay in the shed, don't do any work and moan about the cost of repairs.

Superb lol! 😂😂😂

[SR71]

On 19/12/2023 at 15:28, Hroth said:

 

Ewwwww....

 

Did you see the prog about the Aldi Xmas preparations last night (I didn't), the trail mentioned "Pigs in Blankets" flavoured ice cream.  Presumably that didn't happen!

 

 

It did and is on the shelves. Mrs SR-71 (a vegetarian) showed me an ad for it the other night to ask if it was something I'd want... No!

 

Hornby have always announced stuff they then never made. It's hard to Google stuff that didn't exist to refresh my memory but I think a triang lord nelson possibly? The battle space q car. Although of the latter a couple have appeared in recent years I believe.

 

I'm surprised they haven't ventured into oo-9. What for me will be more telling is if there is an absence of new tooling tt-120.

 

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

I thought I'd chance an email to Hornby to enquire about the yet to be released 2020 Lord Nelson. To my great surprise they answered. It is on it's way thankfully, apparently part of the same delayed production batch as the Ruston 88ds and the 2MTs. So that's good.

 

I've heard that Hornby might be changing the way they announce things, is that true? Maybe more like the new Bachmann system with less products but more spaced out announcements?

[Mr chapman]

I think for big and flashy they would have to go pre grouping. Something like a LBSCR L class Baltic tank. Huge tank engine that can run with their own generic coaches up to southern Maunsell's and Pullmans. The added advantage of setting up the rebuilt N15x for future release, and a celebrity version 333 remembrance ready for a collectors club release. Something different and could entice a few rule 1 purchases. 

 

Wish list item yes, but I think it could also be viable.

[Dunsignalling]

17 minutes ago, Mr chapman said:

I think for big and flashy they would have to go pre grouping. Something like a LBSCR L class Baltic tank. Huge tank engine that can run with their own generic coaches up to southern Maunsell's and Pullmans. The added advantage of setting up the rebuilt N15x for future release, and a celebrity version 333 remembrance ready for a collectors club release. Something different and could entice a few rule 1 purchases. 

 

Wish list item yes, but I think it could also be viable.

With period-correct Pullmans, including a Pup, to go with the L. 

 

A bit smaller, but equally characterful, maybe the LSWR H16 Pacific tanks?

 

Used variously on cross-London transfer freights, Waterloo ECS duties, Race day specials (Maunsells and Pullmans, again), and oil traffic on the Fawley branch. Easy to excuse for lots of Rule 1 work! 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Standards_in_OO]

I wonder if some form of Polar Express/illumination train would be viable. Not one necessarily for the purists, but relevant to what’s on preserved railways today and could appeal to newcomers and collectors

[Hroth]

4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Duke of York and Duke of Sussex; they just stay in the shed, don't do any work and moan about the cost of repairs.

 

I think that York should end up on coal trains and Sussex at Barry, with bits cut off....

 

[AY Mod]

24 minutes ago, Hroth said:

York should end up on coal trains

 

With Pizza Express headboard?

 

25 minutes ago, Hroth said:

and Sussex at Barry, with bits cut off....

 

Surely repainted apple green embarking on a tour of the States until it runs out of money?

[rovex]

6 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

 

Surely repainted apple green embarking on a tour of the States until it runs out of money?

 

Or simmering resentfully in a dead end

[Steamport Southport]

18 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

I've got three of the things* (Railroad, TTS and Train pack), I don't need another, not that I would buy an over inflated faux "Hornby Dublo" offering anyway....

 

* I still haven't decided on names for the other two, can't have 3 DoGs running about and bumping into each other!

 

 

If you are stuck for a name, 71000 was going to be Prince Charles but it wasn't used after 46202 Prince Anne was involved in the Harrow Smash.

 

All the proposed BR 8Ps would have had Royal male names such as Duke Of Kent. There was a list published a few years ago in one of the magazines. Can't find it though.

 

 

Jason

[Hroth]

32 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

If you are stuck for a name, 71000 was going to be Prince Charles but it wasn't used after 46202 Prince Anne was involved in the Harrow Smash.

 

All the proposed BR 8Ps would have had Royal male names such as Duke Of Kent. There was a list published a few years ago in one of the magazines. Can't find it though.

 

 

Jason

 

I remember there was a list of suggestions, but that was then and I've not done anything about it since... 🙃

 

[Fireline]

4 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

If you are stuck for a name, 71000 was going to be Prince Charles but it wasn't used after 46202 Prince Anne was involved in the Harrow Smash.

 

All the proposed BR 8Ps would have had Royal male names such as Duke Of Kent. There was a list published a few years ago in one of the magazines. Can't find it though.

 

 

Jason

 

I know we live in strange times, but has Princess Anne swapped gender, too? 🤯

[Steamport Southport]

7 minutes ago, Fireline said:

 

I know we live in strange times, but has Princess Anne swapped gender, too? 🤯

 

No. The locomotive was a Princess. The same engine that Hornby has just made as Turbomotive. Only a few weeks after rebuilding it was involved in the Harrow Crash and virtually destroyed.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrow_and_Wealdstone_rail_crash

 

After that happened they didn't want any locomotives named after Royal children so plans for one named Prince Charles didn't go ahead.

 

 

Jason

[The Black Hat]

23 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

I've got three of the things* (Railroad, TTS and Train pack), I don't need another, not that I would buy an over inflated faux "Hornby Dublo" offering anyway....

 

* I still haven't decided on names for the other two, can't have 3 DoGs running about and bumping into each other!

 

 

Mine have become;

 

71001 Duke of Wellington (BR Black)

71002 Duke of York (BR Passenger Blue)

71003 Duke of Richmond (Darlington Green in BR Style)

 

[The Black Hat]

Personally I think Hornby would be stupid not to be doing a new A3 or A4. Even both. 

 

The current ones are ok, but need the DCC systems that are now standard installing, such as sound and possibly some lights. The previous ones don't have this as fitted and versions of Dublo versions was just a daft vanity project when you need a standard model to be made and get the volume and repeat sales in. 

Others for Hornby in the post Simon world - HST and stock retooled and done, 8F, Class 165/166, Class 86...

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, The Black Hat said:

Personally I think Hornby would be stupid not to be doing a new A3 or A4. Even both. 

 

The current ones are ok, but need the DCC systems that are now standard installing, such as sound and possibly some lights. The previous ones don't have this as fitted and versions of Dublo versions was just a daft vanity project when you need a standard model to be made and get the volume and repeat sales in. 

Others for Hornby in the post Simon world - HST and stock retooled and done, 8F, Class 165/166, Class 86...

The "DCC systems that are now standard" (though thankfully without the searchlights) have been incorporated into the latest pair of air-smoothed Bulleid Light Pacifics with no need for a fully re-tooled model. 

 

The tooling suites for the A3 and A4 are considerably more recent than that of the Spam-cans, much of which dates back to 2002. There's also no significant deficiency in the accuracy / finish of either Gresley loco since Hornby eliminated the wonky running plates on the previous A3. The latest models are so close to "right" that there's a danger that full retools could actually be worse. 

 

I therefore consider there are far more effective ways for Hornby to be employing their resources. 

 

Like "full fat" models of 'Duke of Gloucester', the Crosti 9F (including a long-overdue de-Crosti-ed version) and an all-new iteration of the now-very-dated rebuilt MN, including the "missing" tenders that would let them cover the remaining third of the class.   

 

John

Edited December 21, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[The Black Hat]

Sorry but I cant see how a full-fat Duke of Gloucester would be a good idea at all. Hornby churned out the model with so many variations of the same one that they will have stopped this idea in its tracks. The model is of a prototype, so most people will only want one. A lot of people now already have 1 and wont need another. With such price increases yet to feed into the Model train market - inflation busting increases will soon see people happy to keep the model that they have. So that diminishes the potential of the model to generate sales. Same with the Crosti-9F - why go for that when you want to do it as a suite that does the whole class and now Bachmann have updated the 9F... why run the risk of competition of sales. 

Far better to go for engines that need DCC upgrades before the competition does it.  Hence A3, A4... 

Or better still find engines not yet done. Outside, left of field choice? As Hornby are ticking off industrials - how about the Bagnall trio - Valiant, Victor, Vulcan... 

[DutyDruid]

First up, I have to say that this topic is far more controlled than it has been in recent years.

 

My two penn'orth is this thought:  If Hornby are going down the same track as Bachmann by only announcing things that are much closer to delivery than has been the practice in the past what might we see?  I'm citing the new Boosters that are being release under the EFE Banner in the new year as an example - they have obviously been under development for some time but Bachmann have wisely chosen to hold off on the announcement literally until they were in the container on their way.  There is precedent; Hornby did do something similar when they announced the 2BILs, announcement to release was barely 3 months iirc.

 

So, I wonder if we might start to see models of the stuff that's in the old warehouse at Margate?  Isn't there a Bulleid era 4SUB in there?  I seem to recall reading somewhere that that was scanned shortly after its arrival.  What else is there?  Anyone know?  In my mind the time since that facility was set up is about the time it takes to properly develop a new model.

[Fair Oak Junction]

1 minute ago, DutyDruid said:

So, I wonder if we might start to see models of the stuff that's in the old warehouse at Margate?  Isn't there a Bulleid era 4SUB in there?  I seem to recall reading somewhere that that was scanned shortly after its arrival.  What else is there?  Anyone know?  In my mind the time since that facility was set up is about the time it takes to properly develop a new model.

 

Don't say that, my wallet wouldn't survive the shock of a 4SUB 😄

[DutyDruid]

1 hour ago, DutyDruid said:

Isn't there a Bulleid era 4SUB in there? 

Just checked, there is indeed 4SUB 4732 in there, along with a Mersey Rail 503 and one coach from preserved BR(S) 4EPB unit 5176.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, The Black Hat said:

Sorry but I cant see how a full-fat Duke of Gloucester would be a good idea at all. Hornby churned out the model with so many variations of the same one that they will have stopped this idea in its tracks. The model is of a prototype, so most people will only want one. A lot of people now already have 1 and wont need another. With such price increases yet to feed into the Model train market - inflation busting increases will soon see people happy to keep the model that they have. So that diminishes the potential of the model to generate sales. Same with the Crosti-9F - why go for that when you want to do it as a suite that does the whole class and now Bachmann have updated the 9F... why run the risk of competition of sales. 

Far better to go for engines that need DCC upgrades before the competition does it.  Hence A3, A4... 

Or better still find engines not yet done. Outside, left of field choice? As Hornby are ticking off industrials - how about the Bagnall trio - Valiant, Victor, Vulcan... 

What you say about the Duke of Gloucester is at least as applicable to the A3/A4. Any retooled ones will look virtually identical to the existing versions, because the overall appearance of both is about as good as can be achieved already. Who will spend £250+ on something that looks exactly like the ones they already have?

 

My point was that it should be possible to accommodate the latest DCC specs  with only minor modifications to existing tooling, just as Hornby have recently done with the (much older) WC. Indeed, the current A3s probably have most of it already. 

 

By contrast, there is quite a lot that can be done to improve the Design Clever 71000. Effectively, one version was Railroad, and the other Railroad with a better paint job, what Hornby now call Railroad Plus. Cock o' the North, also a one-off, was the same, and they are taking that in hand...

 

Hornby has recently done all the underpinnings for their new 9Fs with the latest DCC specs, and it seems logical to exploit that to upgrade/increase coverage of the Crosti locos.. Bachmann can be more-or-less discounted as a potential rival as they no longer seem to take much interest in steam prototypes except as commissions, and even less in upgrading their own back catalogue. Their recent 9Fs were essentially just opportunistic re-runs; though I presume they updated the electronics.   

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[The Black Hat]

The business case for Duke of Gloucester just isn't there. Demand has been in part satisfied. You hit on the reasons why and give away the answer. Your concentrating on looks. The older A3 and A4 tooling look fine and are ok overall. They still stand up as a good model. But they don't have the functions that a digital will want and now has as standard. A model released now as a one part of the range needs to have digital and that includes sound options too. The A4 and A3 are well overdue a tooling and chassis that provides this and have been part of the Hornby stable for years. If they dont do it - someone else will. 

Hornby are doing the P2, based on the fact that the new build will be soon made for real and getting in on the action to make that. The 9F while a good move, needs to have the use made of it, but Bachmann still take a swipe of this market, especially when there's does have sound as part of the range - underlining my point that its needed. 

Despite all this, your still ignoring the price hikes, inflation that will soon bite and the fact that Hornby flooded the market with them already (when it comes to the Dukes). So as much as you think the demand is there, theres more factors undermining it and more in favour of A3 or A4. It really is that simple.  

[Hilux5972]

The current A3 and A4 date from 2005ish. With just a DCC upgrade they will be fantastic. A full retool isn’t necessary. Paul Isles confirmed that almost every variation for the 9F was incorporated into the new tooling so Crosti, de-crosti etc will appear in due course no doubt. A full fat DOG would be great idea because I would imagine many people, myself included, would replace the lower detail railroad version with the full spec one. 

[Dunsignalling]

6 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

The current A3 and A4 date from 2005ish. With just a DCC upgrade they will be fantastic. A full retool isn’t necessary. Paul Isles confirmed that almost every variation for the 9F was incorporated into the new tooling so Crosti, de-crosti etc will appear in due course no doubt. A full fat DOG would be great idea because I would imagine many people, myself included, would replace the lower detail railroad version with the full spec one. 

And, of course, the A3 had a substantial partial retool much more recently (2018-ish?) to incorporate a metal running plate.

 

I stand to be corrected, but I was under the impression that recent/current A3s and A4s had already received tender underframes retooled to accommodate a speaker under the ballast weight, as recently   incorporated into the Bulleid Light Pacifics. I'd have expected that arrangement to be introduced in tandem with developing the Thompson Pacific models.

 

So long as that is the case, upgrading the chip interface from 8-pin to whatever is currently in favour, is something the factories are quite capable of doing on request, with very little input from Margate.  

 

John

[64F]

They can re-tool the Gresley pacifics as often as they like as far as I am concerned, as long as they also make accurate rakes of carriages for them to pull.  The imminent Coronation stock will be a good start.  I nominate the 1938 Flying Scotsman stock, however a BTK and CK to match the current Gresley corridor stock would help in the meantime.  Oh, and a restaurant triple...  Seriously though I do think that making accurate sets of famous trains ought to be a winner, and hopefully sales/pre-orders of the the Coronation Scot and the Coronation will justify another one next year.  If not the Scotsman then perhaps GWR Centenary stock for the Cornish Riviera.

Edited December 22, 2023 by 64F