Hornby Tier System

[Fair Oak Junction]

11 hours ago, Ravenser said:

To me it really does signal that we are running out of road in terms of new tooling, and the medium term  future for OO RTR is going to be largely about re-runs from existing tooling.

 

DMU/EMUs, narrow gauge, and the pre-grouping era would disagree with that. There is a LOT of railway ground that could still be covered, it just needs companies to take the chance.

Not to mention all the grouping era steam classes still never done!

 

For years we were told by people in the hobby, "pre-grouping RTR will never sell" and "009 RTR will never sell" and both of those have been proven wrong over the last 5-10 years.

Edited January 5 by Fair Oak Junction

[Fair Oak Junction]

Just looking at the Southern for example. Ignore the many many pre-grouping locos that survived into SR, and even BR, days and just look at the Maunsell SR locos.

 

 

Of the 8 classes (not including the K1 as it was on it's own) only 2 have been done RTR to modern standards. So there alone is a lot of scope for future models.

Then look at all the SR EMUs that haven't been made. And then look at the other of the Big Four, and you'll find similar stories.

There is a lot that could still be done rather than having the same classes over and over and over.

And is it a risk? Well of course, but if no one takes risks then the hobby stagnates. And MANY of the items that have proven in recent years to be big sellers were huge risks.

[Hroth]

The L1 locos are an open goal for Hornby, who must surely consider the class to be one of their own "particulars".

 

The problem with multiple units is that they tend to be relatively expensive, especially if buit with all the bells'n'whistles expected nowadays.  Look at the Hornby reissue of the 110 DMU.  Pricy for a Railroad Plus issue, even though comments have been made that there are no appreciable differences between the reissue and the original issue*...

 

Going on from that, I can appreciate that MU stock consists of 2, 3 or more coaches and you can't expect the number of coaches in an MU to retail at less than buying coaches individually. And then one of them contains a motor and associated gubbins, so its really no more expensive than buying a loco and several coaches all at once. But with the loco, you can opt not to buy extra coaches, so multiple units "appear" to be a more expensive option.

 

* Mainly an improved motor bogie and DCC socket?

 

Edited January 5 by Hroth
A bit extra...

[Fair Oak Junction]

Yep, it is very odd to me that they've never redone the L1s. Hopefully that happens one day.

 

And I agree on the point about MUs, it is a tough one. But I would definitely pay current EMU prices for a 4-COR! 😄

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

One word: Collectors.

 

Hornby tend not to talk about them, but they probably contribute a greater proportion of their turnover than do "modellers". The latter will logically buy only the versions of the "exotics" that fit self-imposed frameworks of time and place; collectors' only purchasing limit is the number of variations produced. 

 

I have no doubt whatever that there are people out there who (for instance) have bought/ordered every iteration of the LNER "Hush-hush" loco, or who own an example of every version of "Flying Scotsman" ever produced (now getting up around the fifty mark, AIUI). 

 

Even "extreme collectors", with the wealth to buy and the space to accommodate "one of everything", may be more numerous  than we normal mortals imagine. They will naturally not draw attention to their "stashes" for security reasons, but various retailers have told me over the years that they supply such individuals.

 

John

 

 

'R number coll;ectors'. (as they used tp be) seem far less numerous now than they once were - I knew several and nowadays I very rare;y come across one. 'Every so % so oco model' collectors also exist - and fit you prognosis excatly - and are no doubt still about.

 

However many of the real collectors will have been put off by limited supplies working in the opposite way to the normal 'rarity effect' in collecting.  In other words you won't carry on collecting if you can't guarantee you're going to get one of everything of whatever it is you're collecting.

 

The big thing I'm sure is not so much collecting but the novelty of 'something different', and ideally something so different you never thought that one  would be available for you to buy,  That's where KR have hit a rich vein and Rapido have now moved in on it while theh likes of Hornby and Bachmann arrived at it in a slightly different way by offering Pre-Group liveries.  In some respects it is, I suppose, a form of collecting but for wider sales totals it is far more about novelty and that 'something different' effect.

 

In the real world there are still dozwns, if not hundreds, of classes that survived in considerable numbers into BR days, and others which appeared under BR, that are still there waiting to be producd.  But - unless they can easily be done also in Pre-Group condition and livery -they don't have the novelty value that adds wider sales appeal.  Look for example at Hornby's J15 - nice model of a pretty little engine but it's black without any real novelty to it so they made far too many that didn't sell and eventually it took a pandemic to actually allow them to clear (some of??) the surplus pile.

[APT Fan]

On 03/01/2024 at 17:36, Legend said:

Rails didn’t and seemed to survive quite happily . I know they now stock Hornby again . In the same way Hattons seem to be doing quite well without Bachmann 

 

Or maybe not? It is difficult to speculate how well a business is doing without knowing the details. It doesn't sound like Hornby are doing great given some of the figures I've seen published in the press.

 

 

Edited January 9 by APT Fan

[Legend]

53 minutes ago, APT Fan said:

 

Or maybe not? It is difficult to speculate how well a business is doing without knowing the details. It doesn't sound like Hornby are doing great given some of the figures I've seen published in the press.

 

 

 Aye true . Didn’t see that coming . 

[adb968008]

On 05/01/2024 at 12:03, The Stationmaster said:

'R number coll;ectors'. (as they used tp be) seem far less numerous now than they once were - I knew several and nowadays I very rare;y come across one. 'Every so % so oco model' collectors also exist - and fit you prognosis excatly - and are no doubt still about.

 

However many of the real collectors will have been put off by limited supplies working in the opposite way to the normal 'rarity effect' in collecting.  In other words you won't carry on collecting if you can't guarantee you're going to get one of everything of whatever it is you're collecting.

 

The big thing I'm sure is not so much collecting but the novelty of 'something different', and ideally something so different you never thought that one  would be available for you to buy,  That's where KR have hit a rich vein and Rapido have now moved in on it while theh likes of Hornby and Bachmann arrived at it in a slightly different way by offering Pre-Group liveries.  In some respects it is, I suppose, a form of collecting but for wider sales totals it is far more about novelty and that 'something different' effect.

 

In the real world there are still dozwns, if not hundreds, of classes that survived in considerable numbers into BR days, and others which appeared under BR, that are still there waiting to be producd.  But - unless they can easily be done also in Pre-Group condition and livery -they don't have the novelty value that adds wider sales appeal.  Look for example at Hornby's J15 - nice model of a pretty little engine but it's black without any real novelty to it so they made far too many that didn't sell and eventually it took a pandemic to actually allow them to clear (some of??) the surplus pile.

Theres risks with relying on collectors.

They all collect for different reasons… Geography, Time, Types, Manufacturer and so on.

 

However all attach a value to having it in the collection, and part of that is the “hunt” of collecting it.

 

No hunt will reduce value… afterall if everyones got one, and they are all 50% off.. whats the rush ?

 

Space becomes an issue, if theres ever more collectors models, year after year, it inevitably becomes too much… those Bachmann “wooden boxes” for example.

 

Endless duplication reduces interest, why collect if theres a better one around the corner, or plenty more where that came from ?

 

At least Hornby has rested dublo this year to 1 loco, though I am as yet failing to attach the emotional, historical or collectors value to the choice of loco number, but the break may help this brand longer term.

 

 

Edited January 9 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Theres risks with relying on collectors.

They all collect for different reasons… Geography, Time, Types, Manufacturer and so on.

 

However all attach a value to having it in the collection, and part of that is the “hunt” of collecting it.

 

No hunt will reduce value… afterall if everyones got one, and they are all 50% off.. whats the rush ?

 

Space becomes an issue, if theres ever more collectors models, year after year, it inevitably becomes too much… those Bachmann “wooden boxes” for example.

 

Endless duplication reduces interest, why collect if theres a better one around the corner, or plenty more where that came from ?

 

At least Hornby has rested dublo this year to 1 loco, though I am as yet failing to attach the emotional, historical or collectors value to the choice of loco number, but the break may help this brand longer term.

 

 

I do wonder if the release of only one HD branded model this year is a 'pause to think' and this one was too late to stop?  But at least it s carrying a Hornby Dublo A4 running number. 

[Pmorgancym]

5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Theres risks with relying on collectors.

They all collect for different reasons… Geography, Time, Types, Manufacturer and so on.

 

However all attach a value to having it in the collection, and part of that is the “hunt” of collecting it.

 

No hunt will reduce value… afterall if everyones got one, and they are all 50% off.. whats the rush ?

 

Space becomes an issue, if theres ever more collectors models, year after year, it inevitably becomes too much… those Bachmann “wooden boxes” for example.

 

Endless duplication reduces interest, why collect if theres a better one around the corner, or plenty more where that came from ?

 

At least Hornby has rested dublo this year to 1 loco, though I am as yet failing to attach the emotional, historical or collectors value to the choice of loco number, but the break may help this brand longer term.

 

 

Perhaps they could go the way of kids toys, Hornby Dublo Blind boxes 1 in 6 chancea of getting an ultra rare...

[Les1952]

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Theres risks with relying on collectors.

 

 

 

 

One risk was identified by the proprietor of one of my closer model shops.

 

He's noted for some time that a number of his older customers over the years have been suffering from dementia.

 

On working out which customers were affected he found it was collectors who tended to dementia while active modellers kept their marbles long enough to drop dead from something else.

 

I may not be the world's best modeller but I keep on working things out.......

 

Les