Hattons Model Railways to close

[DCB]

Very sad to see Hattons go.    I need a couple more 14XX.58XX locos      It sounds to me like demographics has triggered the run down.  We are all getting older,and it's still the same people buying (or dying)  My local model shop  has had the same proprietor for 40 odd years and has a huge pile of various era stock covering 1990 -2023   Virtually nothing  for pre group per WW2 or BR stem era, just a few niche models.
It seems everyone is chasing the 65 to dead demographic who have every single locomotive ever produced so we have to make 1825 steamers or one offs and soon I assume Neverwazzs, I can't wait for the LMS Passenger Garratt for the Highland so I think I had better bodge one myself.
The modern image (Not Post 1968) ranges seem many and varied but how many units are actually shifted  I'm not sure how many people want them, but my experience modern eras are about 5 years (4 for Highland 1985/9) and its an absolute nightmare finding compatible stock to run side by side on a modernish era layout.  

I think Hattons woke up and smelled the coffee and decided to wind down the business before it became unprofitable.  With a contracting market this will alleviate some of the pressure on competitors, but will not help manufacturers.   Hopefully someone else will take on their moulds but really it seems to me that the bottom has fallen out of the model railway mass market .

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, Les1952 said:

Just as an aside, when she graduated the country was moving into recession (2009 ish).  She wanted to stay in Liverpool but needed a job.  What do you do for a job at the start of a depression?  She became a bailiff's court clerk.......

 

Ah yes, job security does exist in Liverpool

[scots region]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I remember the days of “allow 28 days for delivery”… thats after “allowing 10 days for cheques to cash”…

 

I ordered D824 Highflyer from Railmail, £9.99… thats… wait for Railway Modeller, send a postal order in the post, wait around 60 days and one day a brown parcel was waiting in the rain on the doorstep when I got home from school.

 

I Still have D824 Highflyer today, 45691 Orion that followed cost me £16.50.

 

 

Though in all honesty. I do wonder if we should go back to those days, next day delivery is nice, but where I live it really means next week delivery. In the last year there was only one real occasion where I really needed something delivered as soon as possible. 
 

waiting a month for my books and models, would hardly be the worst thing that could happen to me. 
 

More time to plan and prepare. 
 

ScR

[kevinlms]

10 hours ago, Willie Whizz said:

Presumably ‘someone at some point’ thought they were getting a good deal by buying in such bulk. One has to wonder though: at the typical monthly rate of sales for such items, by any retail outlet, how many years-worth of stock that represents to he held, curated and warehoused?

 

Perhaps some old Hattons habits never really died out. 

After an electronics chain in Australia went broke, it was revealed that they had loads of home branded batteries. Every day stuff like AA & AAA types. Except the problem was that they had 7 - 10 years worth in the warehouse. In other words some would be beyond the shelf life!

 

The administrators, ended up selling the batteries back to the overseas manufacturers, which means they would have got 5/8ths of FA for them! Who wants to on sell named products like batteries?

 

At least the stuff Hattons of old kept, was timeless and if they got it cheap enough, it mattered less.

[Bucoops]

5 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

After an electronics chain in Australia went broke, it was revealed that they had loads of home branded batteries. Every day stuff like AA & AAA types. Except the problem was that they had 7 - 10 years worth in the warehouse. In other words some would be beyond the shelf life!

 

The administrators, ended up selling the batteries back to the overseas manufacturers, which means they would have got 5/8ths of FA for them! Who wants to on sell named products like batteries?

 

At least the stuff Hattons of old kept, was timeless and if they got it cheap enough, it mattered less.

 

I have an awful lot of Maplins branded batteries from when they had their firesale. We go through them quite quickly so not that long until I am out and will have to look for another bargain source.

[jaym481]

9 hours ago, br-nse-fan said:

As a Canadian who has been using Hatton's since the early 2000's, the news is very saddening.  With the recently closing/winding down of not only Hatton's, but the Canadian distributor for Hornby (Britannia Models), there is no longer any way to get Hornby products locally.  Hornby have refused to communicate with the local supplier here in Ontario, and the only other distributor being in the US, has put a huge damper on UK outline availability.

Yes, there are other retailers... I've used Rails and Kernow a number of times in the past, and no disrespect to any of them.. few can come close to the level of service that Hatton's has been able to provide over the years.

I'm knocking around websites looking for options, but most are "offering" postage to Canada at the £30-£40 mark unless you bring it in under 1kg. I wasn't aware that Hornby wouldn't communicate with Nigel - I understand he bought Britannia, and the last email i had from him indicated he was negotiating with Hornby to take on distribution here.

 

On another note, I realize the folks at Hatton's are probably working long days trying to fulfil orders, so I shouldn't expect the "pick list packed" message as quickly as usual (no more than 48 hours usually). I was wondering how long it's taken for others who ordered this week? I placed my order Monday evening, so it would have been in their queue Tuesday morning.

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

I have an awful lot of Maplins branded batteries from when they had their firesale. We go through them quite quickly so not that long until I am out and will have to look for another bargain source.

That's OK for individuals, but very poor for a business with items that effectively have a use by date.

[kevinlms]

9 minutes ago, jaym481 said:

 

On another note, I realize the folks at Hatton's are probably working long days trying to fulfil orders, so I shouldn't expect the "pick list packed" message as quickly as usual (no more than 48 hours usually). I was wondering how long it's taken for others who ordered this week? I placed my order Monday evening, so it would have been in their queue Tuesday morning.

Yes, I suspect there to be a delay, but it doesn't matter to me (ordered Wed AM, my time). When it comes (a 2nd hand Bachmann G2a), I'll be happy, as long as it doesn't have problems. You never know with 2nd hand goods.

[Hal Nail]

4 hours ago, jaym481 said:

I was wondering how long it's taken for others who ordered this week? I placed my order Monday evening

I ordered something about 6pm on Monday, it was picked at 11am Tuesday and arrived on Wednesday. 

 

Looking back I was clearly after the announcement but I had been searching for a specific loco every day expecting it to drop sooner or later (Rails just had). Only 2 locos came up under bargains in 7mm, so I didn't think anything of it until I logged on here much later.

 

Edited January 13 by Hal Nail

[NBL]

16 hours ago, benzino said:

Bad news for the hobby already this year. I can only add my personal situation / thoughts. I'm perhaps one of the younger people into the hobby though not too young at 41 🤣

I came back to model trains during lockdown making a garden oo layout. Since I have collected quite a bit or stock..But near all of it aside an efe 58 and a gifted Dapol bubble has been secondhand, Including buying joblots of flexitrack on the bay . The mrs and I earn decently enough but I couldn't spend the kind of money needed for new stock, dcc, sound...and in regards to used models, the prices of Hatton rails etc have always been a joke..100 plus for a rotted Hornby 31 with bits falling off?  I've always bought from private sellers rather than stores. I do rummage in my local surviving train shops used boxes.

Again only my view, but the hobby has priced itself for the wealthier older generation and perhaps its beginning to show 

The hobby has priced itself at what the market dictates, not at what us consumers pay, but at a rate that gives enough of a return to stay in business.   This goes for new and used items.

 

I wonder of those who complain about the cost of a loco will happily spend far more money on their other interests without flinching?  An uprated part for their car, bike or motorcycle, or another lens for their camera?  Or a new game for their console?

 

All of which aren't exactly cheap if you are buy quality items.

 

I'm a reading member of a muscle car forum where people spend thousands up thousands on their cars and there is never a whinge about prices, either new or used.

 

It does make me wonder

[Fair Oak Junction]

3 minutes ago, NBL said:

Or a new game for their console?

 

Oh trust me, the price of videos games has been a HUGE debate for the last few years!

 

They stayed basically the same price for far too long, and now that they have to go up gamers are shouting from the rafters about it. This is because they look at the huge gaming companies who are making profits hand over fist, with executives pulling down horrendously large salaries. But they tend to forge that the lack of price increases effects mid-level and Independent developers, all of whom have very tight profit margins.

 

I agree with you completely, price increases have to happen. There is no getting around it. I fully understand why people complain about it happening, but it wont change anything.

[Jol Wilkinson]

24 minutes ago, NBL said:

The hobby has priced itself at what the market dictates, not at what us consumers pay, but at a rate that gives enough of a return to stay in business.   This goes for new and used items.

 

I wonder of those who complain about the cost of a loco will happily spend far more money on their other interests without flinching?  An uprated part for their car, bike or motorcycle, or another lens for their camera?  Or a new game for their console?

 

All of which aren't exactly cheap if you are buy quality items.

 

I'm a reading member of a muscle car forum where people spend thousands up thousands on their cars and there is never a whinge about prices, either new or used.

 

It does make me wonder

Perhaps the difference between model railways and the other interests you mention is that railway modellers tend to buy lots of things, rather than just a few items. It is not unusual to read that someone has 100+ RTR locos, whereas an angler will perhaps have just a few rigs for different conditions, a photo enthusiast a couple of cameras and several lenses (I have friends who partake in those pastimes).

 

Amassing large  collections does seem to be something in the model communities (railways, buses, cars, etc.) so seeking the lowest prices is important to achieving that.

[Brocp]

1 hour ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

 

Oh trust me, the price of videos games has been a HUGE debate for the last few years!

 

They stayed basically the same price for far too long, and now that they have to go up gamers are shouting from the rafters about it. This is because they look at the huge gaming companies who are making profits hand over fist, with executives pulling down horrendously large salaries. But they tend to forge that the lack of price increases effects mid-level and Independent developers, all of whom have very tight profit margins.

 

I agree with you completely, price increases have to happen. There is no getting around it. I fully understand why people complain about it happening, but it wont change anything.

Even the big gaming studios are struggling, Insomniac, who made Spiderman 2 for the PS5, need to sell 6-7million units before they break even. The development cost for it was $350 million US (according to the massive leak that happened around Christmas). Plus they have to give nearly 30% of each sale to Disney/Marvel for licencing. Without game prices increasing its simply not sustainable. Throw in the fact games are taking longer to make and get on the shelves (sort of like what's happening with rtr stuff) it's becoming a pretty risky business for game companies now, Sony losing COD from 2027 onwards could be the final nail in the coffin for at least Sony unless they change things massively.

[jjb1970]

Model railways aren't quite the status symbol of other hobbies.

 

In many other hobbies there is a certain segment (I'm not saying the whole hobby) that actually wants expensive stuff. Some of it is just about status (impressing friends, the hobby tribe etc with the in vogue hi-fi system, crazy expensive professional bicycle or golf bats, an insanely expensive watch etc) while others fall for that mindset of expensivest = bestest (a highly questionable idea). The result is that other hobbies are much more stratified by sub-segment, manufacturers may cross subsidise, there is the halo product concept etc. And in some sub-segments prices have gone insane as they've gone from a niche but not that small market to a vanishingly small micro-niche where production runs can struggle to get into double figures and prices accordingly go crazy (this happened to brass models).

 

So I'd be careful about making too many comparisons with other hobbies, I'd further say that I'd be careful about extrapolating from this sad news about Hattons to try to arrive at conclusions about the state of model railway retailing let alone anything else. Similarly with references to macro-economic factors, I'm sure they have affected Hattons, I'm also sure the reasons for the decision to close the business will not be monocausal and the weighting of various influencing issues will be something only the decision makers at Hattons really know. 

[JBM37404]

11 hours ago, DCB said:

Very sad to see Hattons go.    I need a couple more 14XX.58XX locos      It sounds to me like demographics has triggered the run down.  We are all getting older,and it's still the same people buying (or dying)  My local model shop  has had the same proprietor for 40 odd years and has a huge pile of various era stock covering 1990 -2023   Virtually nothing  for pre group per WW2 or BR stem era, just a few niche models.
It seems everyone is chasing the 65 to dead demographic who have every single locomotive ever produced so we have to make 1825 steamers or one offs and soon I assume Neverwazzs, I can't wait for the LMS Passenger Garratt for the Highland so I think I had better bodge one myself.
The modern image (Not Post 1968) ranges seem many and varied but how many units are actually shifted  I'm not sure how many people want them, but my experience modern eras are about 5 years (4 for Highland 1985/9) and its an absolute nightmare finding compatible stock to run side by side on a modernish era layout.  

I think Hattons woke up and smelled the coffee and decided to wind down the business before it became unprofitable.  With a contracting market this will alleviate some of the pressure on competitors, but will not help manufacturers.   Hopefully someone else will take on their moulds but really it seems to me that the bottom has fallen out of the model railway mass market .

It often feels like the to eras that matter to the industry are Green transition and Latest day Private bonanza liveries. Those of us doing the early 90s or late 80s seem to struggle. Sad to see Hattons go been a regular for 40 years but my main sympathy falls with the staff who I hope are ok.

[MJI]

2 hours ago, NBL said:

The hobby has priced itself at what the market dictates, not at what us consumers pay, but at a rate that gives enough of a return to stay in business.   This goes for new and used items.

 

I wonder of those who complain about the cost of a loco will happily spend far more money on their other interests without flinching?  An uprated part for their car, bike or motorcycle, or another lens for their camera?  Or a new game for their console?

 

All of which aren't exactly cheap if you are buy quality items.

 

I'm a reading member of a muscle car forum where people spend thousands up thousands on their cars and there is never a whinge about prices, either new or used.

 

It does make me wonder

Used to be high 30s for a new AAA game on release, now around 70 on release.

 

Recently, one game £35 year old well worth it, another 2 years £25.

 

Another is £80 year pass.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 12/01/2024 at 11:57, RichardT said:

I know. Receiving toy trains two days quicker is pretty much a matter of life and death...

Actually what matters is prompt delivery in the present situation, where it's a shower of drivers in vans turning up some time or other, some possibly not quite able to read the street name or count house numbers beyond finger assistance.  So reliable indication of when  to be at home is 'helpful' and this applies to all vendor's deliveries. 

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Perhaps the difference between model railways and the other interests you mention is that railway modellers tend to buy lots of things, rather than just a few items.

Vinyl enthusiast?

Collections in the thousands of records.

[Fair Oak Junction]

Yep there are a lot of hobbies where people's collections number into the hundreds, even thousands, of expensive items.

[Michael Hodgson]

31 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Actually what matters is prompt delivery in the present situation, where it's a shower of drivers in vans turning up some time or other, some possibly not quite able to read the street name or count house numbers beyond finger assistance.  So reliable indication of when  to be at home is 'helpful' and this applies to all vendor's deliveries. 

I don't think it makes any difference whether or not you're at home - delivery drivers round here leave any package on the doorstep or perhaps hidden behind something, and are half way back down the road by the time I get to the door - and that's only if they bother to ring the bell.  Sometimes I only know there's been a delivery because the mutts won't stop barking.

[AY Mod]

30 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Vinyl enthusiast?

Collections in the thousands of records.

 

Akin to being a vegan; it's obligatory to tell everyone you collect vinyl.

[Jol Wilkinson]

31 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Vinyl enthusiast?

Collections in the thousands of records.

I think the relevant word here is collections. Collecting is, I believe, a pastime in itself. Finding, researching, buying, displaying, possibly even bragging. 

 

Railway modelling is more about creating and using, although for some collecting is a major part of the hobby. However, I wonder if being described as a collector is seen as less worthy than being called a modeller.

[jjb1970]

Hand bags. Seriously, what Mrs JJB and the daughter consider a reasonable amount to spend on a hand bag and the importance (indeed necessity) of having a room full of the things is horrifying🫣 It's worse than shoes.....

[Fair Oak Junction]

I'm a collector and a modeller. How we chose to do the hobby is no business of anyone else, but that won't stop others judging the way you chose to do things.

It's just a fact of life at this point. Collectors are more likely to spend big on RTR, whereas modellers are the ones buying kits; so both contribute to keeping the hobby going.

Edited January 13 by Fair Oak Junction

[4630]

3 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

Hand bags. Seriously, what Mrs JJB and the daughter consider a reasonable amount to spend on a hand bag…

I share your pain.  Not another one.  🙄