Hattons Model Railways to close

[ColHut]

Hmm, Very sad.  I used Hattons a lot here downunder.  Reliable, good postage rates, great range.

 

regards

 

 

[Ian Holmes]

What with all the upheavals this week I took time to reflect on it and how it will affect my micro layout building plans https://iansmicrolayouts.blogspot.com/2024/01/upheavals.html

 

Ian

[Jabee]

5 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

It is not unusual to read that someone has 100+ RTR locos, whereas an angler will perhaps have just a few rigs for different conditions

Don't count on it....I'm also a sea angler and I have upwards of 50 rods, half of which I built myself, a similar number of reels of various types and sizes and easily hundreds of hand tied rigs to cover different species, from small gobies to large Porbeagle sharks, and to cover various conditions as well as allowing for quick rig replacement if damaged. And don't get me started on the miles of line, thousands of hooks, swivels and other terminal tackle I have. And as far as modelling goes, I dare not count locos, rolling stock and all the other paraphernalia one collects while constructing a decent sized layout 😁

[Dunsignalling]

Thing is, with r-t-r locos  at least, is that it's the unit cost that's been going up. 

 

In my own case, the rise has coincided with a fairly extended spell in which the trade (especially Hornby) has produced relatively few  new locos of interest to me. I've therefore been able to stay within budget; I've just been seeing fewer locos for what I have spent.

 

Those with an addiction to LNER Pacifics or a devotion to Rule One, have my sympathy!

 

Edited January 13 by Dunsignalling

[andyman7]

2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I think the relevant word here is collections. Collecting is, I believe, a pastime in itself. Finding, researching, buying, displaying, possibly even bragging. 

 

Railway modelling is more about creating and using, although for some collecting is a major part of the hobby. However, I wonder if being described as a collector is seen as less worthy than being called a modeller.

But even here the comparison with vinyl is closer than you might think. In the same way that there are the 'operating' tribes that decry the 'collecting' tribes in model railways, vinyl collecting is a broad church. There are record collectors who want mint copies of the first pressing that they will never play but want to 'own'; whilst others will seek out audiophile editions or rated quality pressings, because it has been mastered and cut in a certain way; and once it has been professionally cleaned on their £3000 Moth cleaner they will sit dead centre in their audio prepared listening room dead centre of the stereo mix listening on their £20000 valve deck with £5000 cartridge.

 

It's a similar disparity to model enthusiast A with his mint unrun 1962 Hornby Dublo loco in original packing never removed from the box versus model enthusiast B with his Accurascale Class 37 P4 conversion fully weathered, windows replaced with Laserglaze because the RTR product doesn't quite cut it, brake chains replaced with finer scale, speaker replaced, decoder reblown with XYZ file because the supplied one is clearly remiss, still a bit bothered that the grille tumblehome doesn't look quite right at some angles, and unhappy because having hauled 70 HAA wagons for four hours nonstop the motor looks to have failed. Each may well fail to understand the other whilst perhaps not recognise that their own approach might be considered potentially obsessive by others.

[melmerby]

16 hours ago, Bucoops said:

I have an awful lot of Maplins branded batteries from when they had their firesale

Firesale?

Somebody should've told the Birmingham Branch

Even on the last afternoon a couple of hours before final closure they would not budge on the cost of a reel of cable.

It was the same price it had always been, I tried a bit of bargaining but couldn't get a penny off! So it stayed there.

 

I did get some cheap stuff but not much less than typical January sale prices.

[Bucoops]

4 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Firesale?

Somebody should've told the Birmingham Branch

Even on the last afternoon a couple of hours before final closure they would not budge on the cost of a reel of cable.

It was the same price it had always been, I tried a bit of bargaining but couldn't get a penny off! So it stayed there.

 

I did get some cheap stuff but not much less than typical January sale prices.

Maybe hoping the longer they had stock the longer they had jobs? Wouldn't blame them!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

11 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

listening on their £20000 valve deck with £5000 cartridge.

Cheapskate. Should have gone for a laser or optical turntable - or both, each has its own performance benefits dependent on the polymer, pressing technique and condition of the recording - which does no damage to the record. And of course unless on solid bedrock, you may need a large concrete mount for optimal stability on which to locate the turntables. Beyond this point it becomes seriously expensive...

 

The exchange of opinions is the major side entertainment, Even the most abrasive model railway fan's utterances  would be regarded as exquisitely polite in audiophile circles.

[montyburns56]

There's an article in The Telegraph about the Warley/Hattons apocalypse. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/12/death-model-railway-ageing-enthusiasts-force-closures/

[Damo666]

On 12/01/2024 at 14:14, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

......  I wanted to show the packaging because of the additional reinforcing strip Hattons have been adding for additional rigidity during shipping, which is appreciated.

 

Same here with my box of 10 yard lengths which arrived yesterday. That reinforing strip is a great idea and much appreciated.

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

7 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

There's an article in The Telegraph about the Warley/Hattons apocalypse. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/12/death-model-railway-ageing-enthusiasts-force-closures/

 

Typical sensationalist headlines from the peddlers of hate and bull...droppings. Even the first couple of paragraphs are failing to tell an accurate picture of the situation.

[Willie Whizz]

15 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

There's an article in The Telegraph about the Warley/Hattons apocalypse. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/12/death-model-railway-ageing-enthusiasts-force-closures/

Seems to be behind a paywall. 

[Damo666]

17 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

There's an article in The Telegraph about the Warley/Hattons apocalypse. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/12/death-model-railway-ageing-enthusiasts-force-closures/

 

Quote

....with both blaming the ageing profile of enthusiasts and a decline in the numbers of new fans taking part.

 

Typical Tory Telegraph, no mention of Brexit.

 

And before anyone invokes the 'No-Political rule / Don't mention Brexit' here, it was one of the reason Hatton's email said was a factor in their closure.

[Pendennis]

40 minutes ago, Damo666 said:

 

 

Typical Tory Telegraph, no mention of Brexit.

 

And before anyone invokes the 'No-Political rule / Don't mention Brexit' here, it was one of the reason Hatton's email said was a factor in their closure.

I would never wish to defend the Telegraph in a million years but the article does mention Brexit.

 

However to me the more salient point was the age of Christine Hatton, now 61.  It would have been coming to the time when she and her husband would be looking to pass the business to the next generation; is there one and, if so, are they interested?  It happens to a lot of family businesses, after a couple of generations it has either been divided up into small shareholdings and the shareholders disagree on a way forward or the third or fourth generation are just not interested.  With retail the way it is, the previous option of selling the business probably doesn't exist anymore.

[wombatofludham]

There's the Telegraph.  Then there's reality.

Railways are not an ageing interest, nor are model railways.  They mix and socialise via new media rather than clubs where they will usually be derided for not being interested in kit building and daring to like non-steam.  If clubs are losing volunteers I suggest some members might need to look in the mirror for the problem.  In any case Warley had reached a size where it would be a full time job for a professional exhibition organiser, so I don't blame Warley for saying time to let it go.

If the Telelaugh is blaming to many old farts for the demise of Hatton's and Warley then based on past form I'd be inclined to look elsewhere for the real reasons.

[Jol Wilkinson]

5 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

There's the Telegraph.  Then there's reality.

Railways are not an ageing interest, nor are model railways.  They mix and socialise via new media rather than clubs where they will usually be derided for not being interested in kit building and daring to like non-steam.  If clubs are losing volunteers I suggest some members might need to look in the mirror for the problem.  In any case Warley had reached a size where it would be a full time job for a professional exhibition organiser, so I don't blame Warley for saying time to let it go.

If the Telelaugh is blaming to many old farts for the demise of Hatton's and Warley then based on past form I'd be inclined to look elsewhere for the real reasons.

I think that extends to more "newspapers" and media outlets that just the Telegraph.

 

As for clubs deriding people that aren't kit builders or are non-steam, I have been to ones where the opposite applies. It takes all sorts.

[LBRJ]

The point that the closing of a model railway retailer, and a regular exhibition coming to an end should make the pages of any national paper would suggest that all is not quite as quietly rotting away as some people would have you believe.

[6990WitherslackHall]

I've just ordered some Graham Farish N gauge traction tyres for my Grandad's B1. They're only £4 each. 

[Gridiron]

58 minutes ago, Pendennis said:

I would never wish to defend the Telegraph in a million years but the article does mention Brexit.

 

However to me the more salient point was the age of Christine Hatton, now 61.  It would have been coming to the time when she and her husband would be looking to pass the business to the next generation; is there one and, if so, are they interested?  It happens to a lot of family businesses, after a couple of generations it has either been divided up into small shareholdings and the shareholders disagree on a way forward or the third or fourth generation are just not interested.  With retail the way it is, the previous option of selling the business probably doesn't exist anymore.

Companies House listing shows  the company Hattons Model Railways Limited Registration No 0531251 which is the trading entity which appears to operate the website we all have purchased from and therefore the entity which is due to close. The Company was incorporated on 18 May 2004 and from 08 Apr 2022 is wholly owned by The Hatton Model Railway Company Limited, Reg no 11057887.  This entity  was incorporated on 10 Nov 2017 to which  Richard was appointed the same day, whilst Christine was appointed a Director  on 18 Jun 2018. This company is showing as active and is the holding company for the group as confirmed by the Annual Report filed on 30 Jun 2023. The Company has two Directors listed,  Mr Richard John Davies Born 1978 and Miss Elaine Christine Hatton born September 1962.

 

Interestingly Richard is listed as 

Ownership of shares – 75% or more
Ownership of voting rights - 75% or more
Right to appoint and remove directors

 

Whilst Christine is listed as 

Has significant influence or control

 

Richard is listed as being an officer of seven companies including Hattons Model Railways Limited No 0531251 and The Hatton Model Railway Company Limited, Reg no 11057887., three of the seven are now dissolved, whilst the two remaining companies are as follows

 

Hattons New Railway Co Ltd, Reg No 10877293 which is he sole director appointed 21 Jul 2017 when the company was founded but dissolved on 06 Nov 2018.

 

Hattons 2 Limited Reg No 09514387 incorporated 27 Mar 2015 and has a status of being active, one Officer Richard (MD), but with two persons having significant control, names Miss Elaine Christine Hatton and Mr Richard John Davies who shares ownership is listed as  – More than 25% but not more than 50%

This perhaps suggests there is a minority shareholder(s) with less than 25% but the entity has remained dormant since incorporation according to the latest accounts filed on 06 April 2023. This entity also does not appear to be owned by the holding company The Hatton Model Railway Company Limited, Reg no 11057887 so it's purpose is somewhat unclear as it stands.

 

Unfortunately I have not been able to discover from US public records the beneficial owner of the US subsidiary MB Klein, except that is appears the person appointed as having Power of Attorney, and thus the legal entity, appears to be an employee of Morgan Stanley, which would suggest the ownership is overseas. Logically it would be reasonable to assume MB Klein was purchased by the Hattons holding company but we will not know for sure, unless it is revealed in the meantime, until the accounts are lodged with Companies House later this year.  Assuming this to be the case, it would suggest that neither Richard or Christine will be retiring anytime soon, as one would assume they will still be involved in running at arms length the MB Klein project, and even possibly planning a new Hattons with a different business model? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alastairb]

Some random thoughts / memories on Hattons:

 

1. Vaguely recall visiting with my dad in the early 70s ( I would have been 8 or 9) , I suspect some of the Hornby Dublo locos/stock on our garage layout were picked up on this trip.

2. Passed the original shop many times on my bus trip from hall of residence to Liverpool University in the early 80s. Like many this was a time in my life when I temporarily left the hobby for wine, women and song.

3. Returned to the hobby in middle age (sound familiar) modelling US Outline. Bought plenty of Peco track (latterly HO Code 70) from Hattons. Agree with previous posters about their brilliant packaging ie L shaped MDF angle on the flex track box.

4. In the last few months returned to my roots with a 70s BR blue project based on Kyle of Lochalsh (location of several childhood holidays).  I've bought plenty of rolling stock recently, but not from Hattons - was a bit mystified why they had no Bachmann / Hornby - this thread explained why. Can't help thinking this was a key factor in their decline. Hard to see how you can be one of the key players in retail if you don't stock the key brands.

5. I found their website a bit chaotic, albeit the ordering process was always good. Hope we don't lose their model directory. A great resource that has been invaluable as I work out what has been produced relevant to my project during my 25 years hiatus from UK modelling. Hope someone takes it on. 

6. Bit underwhelmed  by their 2nd hand offering, but now I know why reading this thread - all the good stuff was snapped up straightaway to all of you who checked the website several times a day.

7. Respect to the management team for exiting the business in a proactive, professional and dignified manner. In my working life I've seen many businesses keep going hoping something would turn up, but it seldom did.  Hopefully it will mean the staff have time to find a new opportunity and also their suppliers will get paid in full.

8. My last Hattons purchase arrived today. A Peco Rannoch Station kit as a stand-in station building for my Kyle layout - a lasting memory of a small but significant part of my model railway journey over 50 odd years.

Edited January 13 by alastairb

[MikeCW]

I’ve thought long about putting my tuppence-worth here.  What I want to say has been said before, more than once. But the recent and, I suppose, inevitable morphing of this thread into the familiar territory of the prices of new model railway kit has persuaded me to comment.

 

First, the Hattons closure.  As a modeller in the Antipodes I have used Hattons for around 30 years.  I have never bought new from them. All my purchases have been second-hand items in two categories: Hornby-Dublo locomotives which were neglected, abused and often advertised as “non-running”; and the occasional Bachmann or Hornby locomotive for my “scale” layout.  I have derived much pleasure and satisfaction from refurbishing and recommissioning many venerable  H-D locomotives. The “modern” locomotives have been repainted, detailed and weathered (a few fitted for sound) and fit nicely in my “scale” layout.

 

For me, as a customer on the far side of the world, Hattons have been by far the best retailer to cater for these two interests. They had extensive stock which turned over regularly.  I could always find something which met my criteria for relevance, condition and price.  Their postage costs were always the lowest, despite the inevitable upward creep in the last few years. (I also appreciated the options for postage they provided.) Their website including their payment section was (too?) easy to use.  The “trunk” was a great innovation.  Packaging was effective (I’ve never had an item damaged in transit). Their customer communication and service was second-to-none.  80%-plus of my model railway spend in that 30 year relationship went to Hattons.

 

With their closure I suspect that my Hornby-Dublo collection is, effectively, now complete.  I don’t need or want much more for my “scale” layout.  I’ve just got to get on with completing the scenery and building some accumulated kits.  So, in some respects, the Hattons closure will draw a line under a chapter of my modelling.  For others it will, of course, be different.

 

But for now, it’s time for me to thank sincerely the directors, managers and staff for a great trip over those 30 years.  Why Hattons closed seems pretty clear from their own statements and from the company’s published financial accounts of the last decade.  And as someone wisely said on this thread, the priorities and preferences of the owners, and their willingness at their stages in life to take on the considerable challenges of this particular retail environment, no doubt played a part in their decision. No doubt too they will have their own plans for the future.

 

Second, model railway prices. There has been a lot said about affordability and the pressures on the marginal “leisure pound” from rising living costs.  These are certainly relevant.  But for me the bit that’s missing is where one’s own values fit into the picture. I look at a £200-plus locomotive that would work well for my layout and think “No. Too expensive for me.”  That doesn’t mean that I couldn’t afford it. I could. It doesn’t mean that I think others are profligate if they buy it. I don’t. It simply means that I don’t think the value to me is worth it.

 

What I’m trying to say is that any buy/not buy decision isn’t solely about affordability.  It’s also about the wider, personal value one places on, for example, a new release from one of the manufacturers.

 

For now, my best wishes to Hattons staff at this difficult time.   

 

  

Edited January 13 by MikeCW
Grammar

[bradfordbuffer]

8 minutes ago, Gridiron said:

Companies House listing shows  the company Hattons Model Railways Limited Registration No 0531251 which is the trading entity which appears to operate the website we all have purchased from and therefore the entity which is due to close. The Company was incorporated on 18 May 2004 and from 08 Apr 2022 is wholly owned by The Hatton Model Railway Company Limited, Reg no 11057887.  This entity  was incorporated on 10 Nov 2017 to which  Richard was appointed the same day, whilst Christine was appointed a Director  on 18 Jun 2018. This company is showing as active and is the holding company for the group as confirmed by the Annual Report filed on 30 Jun 2023. The Company has two Directors listed,  Mr Richard John Davies Born 1978 and Miss Elaine Christine Hatton born September 1962.

 

Interestingly Richard is listed as 

Ownership of shares – 75% or more
Ownership of voting rights - 75% or more
Right to appoint and remove directors

 

Whilst Christine is listed as 

Has significant influence or control

 

Richard is listed as being an officer of seven companies including Hattons Model Railways Limited No 0531251 and The Hatton Model Railway Company Limited, Reg no 11057887., three of the seven are now dissolved, whilst the two remaining companies are as follows

 

Hattons New Railway Co Ltd, Reg No 10877293 which is he sole director appointed 21 Jul 2017 when the company was founded but dissolved on 06 Nov 2018.

 

Hattons 2 Limited Reg No 09514387 incorporated 27 Mar 2015 and has a status of being active, one Officer Richard (MD), but with two persons having significant control, names Miss Elaine Christine Hatton and Mr Richard John Davies who shares ownership is listed as  – More than 25% but not more than 50%

This perhaps suggests there is a minority shareholder(s) with less than 25% but the entity has remained dormant since incorporation according to the latest accounts filed on 06 April 2023. This entity also does not appear to be owned by the holding company The Hatton Model Railway Company Limited, Reg no 11057887 so it's purpose is somewhat unclear as it stands.

 

Unfortunately I have not been able to discover from US public records the beneficial owner of the US subsidiary MB Klein, except that is appears the person appointed as having Power of Attorney, and thus the legal entity, appears to be an employee of Morgan Stanley, which would suggest the ownership is overseas. Logically it would be reasonable to assume MB Klein was purchased by the Hattons holding company but we will not know for sure, unless it is revealed in the meantime, until the accounts are lodged with Companies House later this year.  Assuming this to be the case, it would suggest that neither Richard or Christine will be retiring anytime soon, as one would assume they will still be involved in running at arms length the MB Klein project, and even possibly planning a new Hattons with a different business model? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who hired Magnum PI......😀 

[jaym481]

9 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I think the relevant word here is collections. Collecting is, I believe, a pastime in itself. Finding, researching, buying, displaying, possibly even bragging. 

 

Railway modelling is more about creating and using, although for some collecting is a major part of the hobby. However, I wonder if being described as a collector is seen as less worthy than being called a modeller.

There are record collectors, and those who collect records to play them, much the same as with model railway items. The principal difference is that with records, both collectors and those who collect to play will refer to it as a "record collection."

 

From past comments seen on RMWeb I'd say there's a subset of railway modellers who regard collecting as much less worthy. Seems to be human nature to identify groups to which one can feel superior.

[Methuselah]

On 10/01/2024 at 15:55, melmerby said:

Bob's Models in Small Heath Birmingham used to sell all sorts of other models and parts as well as model railway kits, wheels, motors etc.

I bought, amongst other things, my M&L 633/850 kit there as well as slot car stuff such as wheels, tyres, gears, motors & body shells.

 

They later concentrated more on RTR and even later mainly Radio Controlled models after moving to Hobs Moat Road, they closed about 10 years ago.

 

 

I knew Bob Albutt very well. His original shop on the Coventry Road was really focussed on model aircraft and boats & cars. The trains came later, although Bob did have a 3.5" live-steam railway in the back garden of the shop. Bob had owned the closed shop next door for years, but he had that modernised and moved all the r/c stuff etc into there, and the old shop became dedicated to trains, run, primarily, by Peirce/Piers, who was very keen on US HO. I don't think the train side was ever a real success, though Bobs Models did attend some model railway shows. 

Bob also started an offshoot called Tornado. This was mainly focussed on coin-in-the-slot r/c boats, and later Dodgems. This was mainly run by the late Derek Hughes. As far as I'm aware, that is still in business, though I think Bob may have already sold his interest in Tornado by the time he died.

Bob also opened a shop in Solihull, that his daughter, Julie ran. After Bob's death, the old shop was closed, and the Solihull shop carried on, doing a lot of die-cast and kits, but as you said, sadly closed about ten years ago.

Bob was generally a quiet, private, patient sort of chap, but had a heart of gold. Back in the day, his shop was probably the busiest in Brum.

[St Enodoc]

13 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Akin to being a vegan; it's obligatory to tell everyone you collect vinyl.

Do you have to tell them you wear it, too?

Edited January 14 by St Enodoc
speling