Encouraging my grandson into the hobby - a dead end?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I enjoyed this hobby when there was no worthwhile RTR OO, and am perfectly capable of doing so again. My late Pa started me on model railway wehn I was four, and was a little annoyed when in my early teens I resisted moving on to aeromodelling and radio control; what with him being an avionics design specialist with some of the products he had worked on flying aroundout of DH's... (Which business had an associated MRC which survives to this day.)

 

Relax, and see where it goes...

[fezza]

1 hour ago, friscopete said:

Years ago trains were part of the fabric with model trains being fascinating and only jets and a rockets to  tempt us kids further . Now the fantasy is computer and science related and trains are just there to carry around poor sods who cant afford cars .Why should kids like model trains when the universe is before them and fantasy wars  and goodness knows what else is on offer .Model Trains are a  lost cause for largescale continuity as there is little to fire a kids imagination .just leave it and let the coming generation make their own ways of spending a fortune on toys.Bot my grandkids played on the floor with toy trains .thomas was popular but its lost now in a sea of VR ,Taikwondo ,basket ball,gameboy etc .

 

I wonder how much the decline of trains amongst young people is related to the decline of youngsters trainspotting? When I was young I was allowed to hang out at stations on my own with other boys. I was also put under the charge of family friends to visit distant locations and stand on main line platforms all day while they went to the pub. I had a great time, learnt a lot and grew in social confidence with strangers.  If that happened today they'd put my parents in gaol... Modern child protection policies are important, but they have consequences.

[woodenhead]

8 minutes ago, fezza said:

 

I wonder how much the decline of trains amongst young people is related to the decline of youngsters trainspotting? When I was young I was allowed to hang out at stations on my own with other boys. I was also put under the charge of family friends to visit distant locations and stand on main line platforms all day while they went to the pub. I had a great time, learnt a lot and grew in social confidence with strangers.  If that happened today they'd put my parents in gaol... Modern child protection policies are important, but they have consequences.

You don't think children do things without their parents anymore?  And that if they did then social services would come after them?

 

Children don't trainspot because they have other interests now, most children spend too much time online and they do so because that's where their mates are also and they can all socialise and play together online without leaving their comfy warm homes.

 

But there are plenty of children who go out and do things without their parents being by their side at all times.

[eldomtom2]

Of course with the idea of computers vs. model trains being brought up it is worth mentioning that rail enthusiasts who in the past might have gotten into model railways now might get into train simulators instead...

[The Johnster]

Trainspotting is mostly populated by the kids who were doing it 20+ years ago, which is therefore adults.  'Stranger Danger'* awareness is not a bad thing, but it does mean that modern parents are rightly worried about the prospect of their offspring hanging around on platform ends with a demographic who are overwhelmingly composed of middle-aged men.  The 'anorak' stereotype doesn't help, as the perception is that these men are by default single and probably live with their parents.  It isn't true, as we all know full well, but it is persistent, and there are, always have been, a few oddballs on the ends of platforms to reinforce the stereotype. 

 

This has a big effect on railway modelling, since one of the main driving forces behind the modelling is interest in real trains.  People get involved in it from other angles of course; electronics, engineering, general modelling of buildings and landscapes, even military, but interest in trains is, I would imagine, the main element.  But there is and always will be a throughput of youngsters taking up interest in railways, and some will progress to modelling.

 

 

*Back in the 60s when I was spotting, we were fully aware of Stranger Danger and occasionally encountered it, but usually being mob-handed we were easily enough able to deal with it.  It was one of the reasons we liked to commandeer compartments.  I did a bit of lone wolf travelling in pursuit of steam engines in those days, and no harm befell me, but the idea of a group of mid-teen lads being dropped off at Cardiff General late on Friday evening by whoever's dad's turn it was, and collected late on the Sunday evening after 48 hours of unsupervised travel involving trespassing on railway property, sleeping rough in the empty stock at Newton Heath or Neville Hill or somewhere, and 'living off the land' in factory or bus depot canteens, would be completely unacceceptable, and by and large simply not possible these day.  But we were good at it, and never had to resort to the florins our parents had given us to be used to phone home if we were stuck anywhere and needed rescuing.  We made a ritual point of returning this florin with some pride...

 

Experienced mums had hot baths waiting, two days around steam locos and we were none too fragrant, and broth before bed.

[ikcdab]

when there is so much on-line to attract you, it is really important to encourage any form of creative hobby. I don't really care if my grandkids take up model trains, boats, planes, warhammer, knitting or cookery - its all about learning a skill and making things. That is where the excitement lies - creating something that nobody else has done. and whatever they do, they can be assured that when they come to visit I'll be helping them with that hobby....

[AyJay]

I must confess to being deeply unsettled over this and I hope that I am completely wrong about where my thoughts are going.

 

My dad got me started with my first train set when I must have been about 6 or 7.  Sitting in an oval of track that weaved its way between furniture, would keep me entertained all Sunday afternoon. We didn't have a car, so it was buses and trains for us.  Sure, it went quiet for about 20 years when I discovered girls, then work, studies and finally marriage.  But the seed had been sown and sprouted back to life.

 

My Son is only interested in Lego and Warhammer.

The 5 great-nieces/nephews are all 100% hooked on football.

The two under-5's grandchildren delight in throwing toy cars.  My offer to buy them a Playtrains set was politely declined.

 

Visits to the Warley Exhibition at the NEC and the London Exhibition at Alexandra Palace have been my best opportunity for ideas gathering and purchases. Yet the NEC will now be a thing of the past. There used to be a model shop a short bus ride away; the nearest for me is now a 50 mile drive away.  When my Dad took me to the exhibitions in Ilford and Westminster Central Hall, they were full of other kids and their Dad's.  Now I see mostly old men, which is what I now am.

 

Will this wonderful, creative, imaginative hobby still be alive and thriving in 30 years time?  I sincerely hope so, I doubt if I will be.

Last year, the Wife and I wrote our wills. I told her, "If anyone in the wider circle of family wants this lot, they can have it. If not, just approach a trader in the magazine."  Anything other than a house clearance man chucking it all in a skip.

 

Deeply depressed now. I do so hope I'm wrong and will continue to promote my interest to my connections on FaceAche.

[Steamport Southport]

I'm afraid I've heard all the model trains V computers/technology stuff years ago and it was debunked then.

 

Worth remembering that Beatties downfall was the fact they spent a lot of money on computer games and the market collapsed virtually over night!

 

Sci Fi has a habit of coming in and out of fashion, usually when there is a new Star Wars movie out. Superhero stuff is dying a death right now. Would you invest money into that market? I certainly wouldn't.

 

Warhammer is popular right now. In a few months it might not be. Another hobby that has peaks and troughs. You couldn't give the stuff away a few years ago.

 

Most of these "alternatives" have trends in popularity. Model railways seem to be quite level in that it has not been "cool" to like it since at least the 1960s.

 

 

Jason

[Reorte]

3 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Most of these "alternatives" have trends in popularity. Model railways seem to be quite level in that it has not been "cool" to like it since at least the 1960s.

Whilst I can't really argue with that unfortunately it doesn't seem to attract quite as many negative comments (which usually come from the sort of people it's much easier to find negative things to say about) as it once did. There are some younger people where I work who have no interest themselves in modelling but give the impression of being rather more impressed than critical. Perhaps there's something about people who can do things physically in a more digital time?

[melmerby]

19 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Worth remembering that Beatties downfall was the fact they spent a lot of money on computer games and the market collapsed virtually over night!

I remember the one in Birmingham that had a pile (8 or 10) of SNES (or similar) at RRP when there was supposed to be a shortage and they were changing hands at silly prices.

People just didn't go to Beatties for computer games or consoles.

[Northmoor]

On 10/01/2024 at 19:30, The Johnster said:

The 'anorak' stereotype doesn't help, as the perception is that these men are by default single and probably live with their parents.  It isn't true, as we all know full well, but it is persistent, and there are, always have been, a few oddballs on the ends of platforms to reinforce the stereotype. 

In my experience, if you really want to protect the next generation from a demographic with a much greater proportion of very weird people, keep them away from football matches.

 

2 hours ago, AyJay said:

Will this wonderful, creative, imaginative hobby still be alive and thriving in 30 years time?  I sincerely hope so, I doubt if I will be.

I will confidently predict that in 30 years, the railway modelling hobby will be alive, thriving......... and different.

[BlackFivesMatter]

With regard to "stranger danger" and fear of abuse by a stranger, the sad statistics suggest in a huge precent of cases, a child is more likely to suffer at the hands of a close and trusted family member or close contact. I deal with this in my work in primary care. 

 

Modelling helps de-stress and clear the mind. 

[Mark Saunders]

56 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

In my experience, if you really want to protect the next generation from a demographic with a much greater proportion of very weird people, keep them away from football matches.

 

I will confidently predict that in 30 years, the railway modelling hobby will be alive, thriving......... and different.

However the debate about modern image will still not be settled!

[The Johnster]

I doubt if 'Stranger Danger' is any more prevalent now than it was back in the 60s, or at any time in the past really.  But awareness of it after so many high-profile cases and so much celebrity involvement is at a completly different level, and along with the advent of computer games which mean that children can be left quietly unsupervised at home while their 'rents watch stuff on tv that the kids aren't interested in, and increases in delinquent behaviour and substance abuse out in the street, it is understandable that most parents are nevous about allowing their children and teenagers out unsupervised.  Even back in the late 60s when I was doing my weekend trips roughing it around the Northern England chasing steam, usually with the lads but also solo trips based on Selby, where my big blister and BIL lived at the time, you wouldn't have seen girls my age being allowed this sort of freedom!

[The Bandit]

I really do hope that our great hobby continues well into the future. There are many other distractions for young people these days, probably more so than ever before so the numbers who take up railway modelling are diluted. Yes, there is still the image of anoraks but people who find I’m a railway modeller are usually impressed not disparaging - unfortunately these people tend to be of a more mature age. I came back to railway modelling in later life and really enjoy it but to help keep me on board manufacturers need to look at price. A new oo gauge wagon for £30+ is a joke whilst many new locos are way beyond my means. The problem seems to be our demand for ever increasing detail and ‘sophistication’. Why can’t manufacturers offer rtr locos that run well and leave the detailing to the individual modeller. That way more people may enter the world of railway modelling and present modellers may be encouraged to continue in the hobby.

[Legend]

On 08/01/2024 at 21:08, BoD said:

Obviously the sad news from Hattons today has affected many in different ways.

 

Personally it has got me thinking about encouraging my grandson into the hobby.  He is very enthusiastic about trains (I wonder where he got that from) and he loved his Brio trains.  He has some Hornby Playtrains and enjoys helping  put layouts together and ‘playing trains’. At the moment it will probably be a year or two before we make the move, probably to settrack and more complex things.  

There are lots of other factors involved but today’s events have brought into focus something that has been in the back of my mind for a while.  Am I doing the right thing or am I likely to be leading him down a dead end, encouraging him into a hobby where there isn’t much of a future? Should we cut our losses now or carry on hoping that there will be a model railway hobby in the years to come?  
 

We could argue that the future of the hobby depends on us encouraging youngsters into it but is it likely to be a futile exercise?  Perhaps I am being over pessimistic about the future.

 

i’d say don’t over think it . Do what your grandson enjoys . I’m sure he will go up many dead ends and gather experience as he goes through life . Relish the experience . It’s not going to be a dead end. It might be that the market changes significantly but it will go on .  

[Nearholmer]

How many people have the same hobby as their dad, or their grandad?

Some for sure, but I’d wager that the majority don’t, although we all probably picked-up something along the way from what “our elders” did in their spare time. So, don’t worry if a grandchild doesn’t “latch on” to your hobby, they will have got something positive from spending time with you, and probably in some indirect way from the hobby that you pursue too.

 

Thinking about it, the thing that my brothers and I got from our elders wasn’t particular hobbies, none of us is into golf, gardening, guitar playing, running a poetry society, or oil painting, it was more the idea that hobbies are not merely normal but an absolutely essential part of life, almost the purpose in life.

[eldomtom2]

For an external perspective, here's discussion of a recent Telegraph article on the UK and model railway subreddits - obviously Reddit is a site with a userbase that skews much younger than here, so users' thoughts make interesting reading.

[SouthernRegionSteam]

I have to say, I really don't buy into the premise and depressing, (dare I say) alarmist and well-trodden leap of thought that is: "The hobby is dying." To the point where I personally feel it's a ridiculous statement that quite honestly pees me off (unless 'bad publicity is good publicity')! I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of flak for that (and what follows), but hey ho...

If I received a quid for every time I heard that phrase, I'd be able to afford a new locomotive (and yes 'even at today's prices'). If it were true, and the hobby is dying, why are there more manufacturers, cottage industries, appearances in the media and popular culture, and a greater variety of products available (including quirky locos that would never have seen RTR models of even 10 years ago) now than ever before? Part of the answer, as has always been the case for everything in life (fundamental or niche) that keeps on going, is adaptation and innovation. I feel like the media (and I'll include social media as well to a degree) is often too quick to scrawl clickbaity extremist headlines. I get it. That's what sells... but...

... back in the real world, and as far as I see it:

Major players will come and go.
Major exhibitions rise and may fall.
Interests will likely wax and wane.
Mojo will most certainly appear and disappear(!)
Hobbies increase and decrease in popularity.
Railway modelling is either perceived as 'That's cool!' or 'Err...you like trains?!'.
Punters either appreciate the modelling dedication shown at exhibitions, or are 'enthusiasts' *(I couldn't think of another, more fitting term, so this'll do for now) looking for one particular type of layout and yours isn't it(!)

 

I'm sure I could come up with another dozen of these, but you get the point - it's both a cyclical hobby, and one that is either understood, or not understood! And of the latter, that's on us to be the educators.

In any case, at every exhibition I have ever attended, it's the young (who if you believed some people, supposedly aren't interested) whos' eyes light up, become animated, and seem completely enthralled. Locomotives have, and will always be fascinating to a degree to some people. Sure, not everyone 'gets it', but then I will never, for example, understand the fascination with football either! When I'm exhibiting, those who ask genuine questions are the kids. Sure, some will wonder off after a grand total of 1.5 seconds looking at the layout, but you'll get more than a few during the course of an exhibition who will stand there and admire, ask questions, and bother their parent or guardian to buy something from the traders nearby. Quite often returning multiple times.

As a kid, whilst my Dad did have an interest in all things steam, I was interested in Matchbox cars, and pretty much nothing else all the way up to the end of primary school. Yet I still got bitten by the bug, and genuinely have never stopped modelling since (not even to chase a relationship or go to uni!). Money will be a barrier to entry, but there are always ways around it unless you want an 100% accurate model of Clapham Junction (or whatever lofty goals you think you must have when you dream big - we've all been there!). As a slight aside, what simply MUST be taught at schools is budgeting, and generally more emphasis spent on practical subjects instead of basing everything on the 'core' subjects. 'Practical' maths would be far more useful than bloody algebra for a start, but anyway, I digress... I saw first-hand the shrinking of practical subjects (budgetary and curriculum-wise) both at my school, and at my mums' (who was a food tech teacher for many years until her early retirement - that's another story entirely!).

Whilst we're here, for the love of all that's holy can we stop blaming computers/computer games for the inability to attract teens and those in their twenties? You CAN love both (as I do). It's about time we looked beyond the easy blame game and looked at the fundamental issues of encouraging practical hobbies where a passing interest is shown, and allowing kids to watch, ask questions, and perhaps join in with your modelling. Don't just lock it away behind a door because you're worried things might get broken. TEACH them how to respect and enjoy the hobby, and explain why you enjoy it. Sit them down to build a simple house that they can take home, or put pride of place on your layout so that they can say with glee 'I made that!'...

As to the OP, @BoD, in short, no, there's no need to worry about the hobby dying. But yes, there is room for improvement; but not by ramming the hobby on the youth, but instead by encouraging kids should they show an interest in it. If they don't, fair enough - they'll find what they enjoy, and you can encourage them down that route instead. Just because one grandchild may not take up model railways, it doesn't mean the end is nigh!

Sorry for that rant/ramble... though it is 3am as of writing it...!

[Nearholmer]

I sometimes look at another forum, devoted to my other hobby, and some members there have a tendency to see that as something that is on the brink of expiry, despite strong evidence to the contrary, too.

 

I’ve come to the conclusion that people who see the future of their hobby through “the doom lens” are mostly older blokes who’ve got to the point of contemplating their own mortality rather too much, and are transferring the realisation that they will expire at some point in the foreseeable future onto their hobby.

 

A steady few people still make models of sailing ships, long after they ceased to be important parts of our culture, and people reproduce in miniature forms of warfare stretching back thousands of years, so even as railways continue to change their place in the national culture, and become a lot more standardised and clinical, and a lot less ubiquitous, than they used to be, some people will continue to exercise their creativity by making models of them. Almost certainly not as many people as do so now, and probably slowly reducing numbers over time, but the idea of a looming cliff edge in participation seems very far-fetched to me.

[Simond]

On 11/01/2024 at 17:43, Steamport Southport said:

Warhammer is popular right now. In a few months it might not be. Another hobby that has peaks and troughs. You couldn't give the stuff away a few years ago.

 

Games Workshop (Warhammer etc) is a fantastic success story.  I wouldn’t mind 1% of their turnover. (And I’d bet Hornby, Heljan, Bachmann and Dapol are jealous too)

“…

Games Workshop is pleased to announce that for the 52 weeks ended 28 May 2023, we estimate the Group’s core revenue to be not less than £440 million (2021/22: £387 million) and licensing income of £25 million (2021/22: £28 million). The Group’s profit before tax is estimated to be not less than £170 million (2021/22: £157 million). 

…”

 

 

Edited January 15 by Simond

[TJ52]

My grandson was 4 last October. I had decided to make him a 6x4 00 layout, we live near the Bluebell so he has seen and travelled behind steam engines several times.

 

As an 0 gauge modeller for over 30 years I was a bit out of touch with 00 thought I had built  a layout in the loft for my son when he was about 7 or 8 (thirty years ago). I bought everything secondhand, he has 4 engines and some wagons and couches. I reckon the whole lot including baseboard and controllers has cost in the region of £200.

 

So, the first time it was presented to him the reaction was 'wow' and 'cool'. At first it was simply one engine and one oval of track, but of course it has grown. Now we don't get it out every time he comes round, and although he likes watching the trains and changing the points etc it doesn't hold his attention for more than 15 to 20 minutes at a time. But that's fine. As he gets older he might find more play value, or he may just lose interest. Either way, it is something he enjoys and if in the end I have to dismantle it I'll get some of the money back.

 

By the way, my son loved the loft layout and took his friends up there, but it was of course too hot in the summer and a bit chilly in the winter. He has never followed up model trains, but the interest is still there so who knows for the future? He may even build a layout for the grandson ....

 

All the best.

 

Terry

[billbedford]

On 08/01/2024 at 21:08, BoD said:

There are lots of other factors involved but today’s events have brought into focus something that has been in the back of my mind for a while.  Am I doing the right thing or am I likely to be leading him down a dead end, encouraging him into a hobby where there isn’t much of a future? Should we cut our losses now or carry on hoping that there will be a model railway hobby in the years to come?  

 

Given that most people don't get into serious modelling until after their mid-life crisis, unless you are planning to live till you are 110, you will never know whether your cunning plan has worked. 

[whart57]

There's a touch of nostalgia about what we do in railway modelling. Why else would that horrible BR Blue period be so popular as a layout subject or - ugh! - the 1980s diesel depot. Or late BR steam among the septuagenarians. And many of those modellers who don't recreate something from their own past go for something they wish they had experienced. So as a long term seed in the hobby for our grandchildren start by getting them to experience the railways. Not just the heritage railways, the real day to day railway. Here in Sussex we are fortunate in that senior railcards and family tickets make taking grandchildren on the train to London or Brighton quite affordable, certainly once you factor in the eye-watering car parking charges. Other parts of the country might find that more difficult. But speaking personally, I still have a hankering for the railways of the 1960s and 70s, largely because I associate them with holidays and those first steps to adult independence.

[Magyar]

I echo some of the other posts on here that it's a slow burn and re-emerges when more settled in life. I had a model railway as a kid and loved it (i also had mega drives etc. so computer games didn't deter me) but I moved onto chasing girls, going to University, moving around renting a lot until i got married, bought a house and had kids.

 

I picked up interest in history and studied it in University along the way, particularly Victorian/Edwardian periods. Then when looking for places to go with young kids for walks stumbled across many old railway lines that have been re-purposed. This sort of perked my historical interest. We went to a lot of these in Peak district, Wye Valley etc.

 

Then as I got a train set for my eldest it rekindled the interest for me (I used to do Warhammer etc. before kids). Now it has become more my thing as he's interested more in "robots" but he likes controlling locos a lot. Now it's overtaken and become my thing. Built an insulated shed in the garden and away we go. I'm full in again and still in my 30's. 

 

So I wouldn't say it's dying just probably similar to a lot of people in that during my teens, 20's and early 30's I had other things going on.