End of Warley National Show - but now it's not the end of a show at the NEC.

[steve45]

3 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

This is a 'wake-up' call for all of us in this hobby.

 

In particular for people like me with big exhibition layouts and by that I mean big exhibition-only layouts. Big exhibition layouts need big exhibitions.

 

Small exhibitions will continue, there is no question about that. But small local shows are often one-dayers and you can often only access the hall after 5pm on set-up day if it's a school premises. At Manchester in December my layout took over 6 hours to set up on the Friday and so you can see that we need big two day shows with early access on the set-up day to make things worthwhile.

 

So my message is - if you want to see big layouts at shows then support the big shows or they won't survive.

Some one day exhibitions are on a Sunday.

 

Here at Poole we hold our exhibition on Sunday

 

We hire the School and have access from 07:30 on Saturday, over 24 hours before the exhibition opening and exhibitors have access all day on Saturday until 17:00.

 

Not bad eh?

 

Must be one of the longest

Edited January 13 by steve45
spelling

[Metropolitan]

3 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

coach loads of youngsters

Nice to know. I must have missed them.

[AY Mod]

39 minutes ago, Metropolitan said:

Where are all the young people entering the hobby as you suggested?

 

I talk to several club people who note there's a reasonable number on young newcomers. There are many people younger than you on here and other social media.

 

Just because you don't see something it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

[woodenhead]

2 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

There you go then, a young person. And there are plenty more on social media. Sorry if that sinks your argument (I know it won't, we could find coach loads of youngsters and that wouldn't either.).

 

As for price (groan), am I the only person who goes to things other than toy train shows? Entrance fees are similar, and the petrol costs the same. Shows are good value for money. A days entertainment for less than the price of 90 minutes of football, or one anc a bit trips to the cinema. 

It fits his narrative though that model trains are too expensive, paying only tacit interest in all the other reasons why the show is not going to continue and making it all about price.  The cost of hosting the show in the NEC who will control the food costs, the cost of travel, the sheer volume of exhibits, the cost of accomodating those exhibitors and as he noted a lesser number of visitors probably because of a general increase in the cost of living impacting on everyone else.  Yes there is a new show, but it's in a smaller hall, with less exhibits and possibly timed for a cheaper cost of hire from the NEC, so it will be cheaper to run (and less of a risk).

 

But it's all relative and if Warley was making a massive profit for the club they'd be doing all they can to keep it going.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

9 minutes ago, steve45 said:

Some one day exhibitions are on a Sunday. Here at Poole we hold our exhibition on Sunday.  We hire the School and have access from 07:30 on Saturday, over 24 hours before the exhibition opening and exhibitors have access all day on Saturday until 17:00.

 

Yes, I have noticed a few including your one and that is an excellent idea.

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

Personally, I like to see BIG layouts (all my passenger trains are a minimum of ten coaches long) because back in the 1960's I didn't go to ex-GWR branch lines to trainspot - I went to Southall and watched the mainline trains out of Paddington storm past me

Likewise, my main spotting location was Tyseley from the mid 50s, where you could see most types of ex GWR motive power on passenger & goods trains of almost any length that was typical of the time.

Mainline Services, Cross Country services, Long goods trains, Trip goods, Suburban passenger and the occasional diesel railcar.

You need a large layout to depict any where near that sort of railway.

[Aire Head]

55 minutes ago, Metropolitan said:

Where are all the young people entering the hobby as you suggested? I

I run the Facebook group "Realistic Railway Modelling" our admin team has 5 members of which 4 are 35 and under and 2 are in fact under 30. There is also an array of social media influencers including Sam's Trains and Francois Bourgeois to give examples. 

 

At Warley while manning the LMS society stand I noticed that a lot of young people were visiting the show. The age issue isn't that people aren't getting into the hobby it's that they aren't joining societies and clubs.

[Metropolitan]

3 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

The age issue isn't that people aren't getting into the hobby it's that they aren't joining societies and clubs.

Or forums.😀

[Oldddudders]

I am uneasy about the idea that younger modellers are in critically short supply. I believe there are a number on RMweb with all the skills needed - and indeed this is borne out by some, several decades short of their Zimmer-years, being recruited a while back by an overseas manufacturer seeking a UK presence. The models on which they have collaborated have been applauded as state-of-the-RTR-art. 

 

[steve45]

1 hour ago, Metropolitan said:

Where? 

Our model railway club has a thriving youth section, they are very keen and want to be involved.

 

Please don't spread gloom and doom without full facts, I for one am getting sick of it

[Aire Head]

6 minutes ago, Metropolitan said:

Or forums.😀

Other forms of social media exist.

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, Metropolitan said:

Or forums.😀

They have other means to communicate - FaceBook, Twitter, Instagram and probably others I am too old to be aware or bothered with.

 

Forums like this do have younger people too, and RMWeb isn't the only forum.   Perhaps it says more about us than it does about them that they lurk here rather than make a big thing about being young, or maybe they just don't see why they have to make a song and dance about it, whereas us oldies seem to wallow in the doom and gloom of getting older and being past it.

[melmerby]

11 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

The age issue isn't that people aren't getting into the hobby it's that they aren't joining societies and clubs.

Presumably satisfied with social media coverage.

[AY Mod]

10 minutes ago, Metropolitan said:

Or forums.😀

 

Points under consideration:

a) I am using invisible ink

b) You don't bother to read before posting

c) Trolling

 

[jjb1970]

I know some RMWeb members have an aversion to some of the YouTubers mentioned on this thread but they have large audiences and are clearly reaching lots of people. Whether or not they're my cup of tea (for what it's worth, while I disagree with them on some things and roll my eyes at times I also find them engaging presenters with a passion and do think there is much to enjoy in their videos) they demonstrate there is a strong interest in model trains on that platform and that younger people are contributing to the health of the hobby. Surely that is something to welcome. 

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

Circumstances preclude me going to as many shows as I used to but the three local ones here in Milton Keynes - GETS, Silver Fox and MKMRS - had plenty of the younger age groups attending.

 

Brian

[steve45]

Our local grammar school has a model railway club for its pupils.

 

Our annual exhibition is held at the school and they have exhibited their club layout at the show on more than one occasion and we have donated materials to them to help with their layout.

 

Our show is very popular with young families and older children/young people, it's so good to see.

[guspaul]

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

One thing about shows is popularity, no denying they are popular but that is now leading to another problem, severe overcrowding. 

 

Feels like that old Yogi Berra quote "Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.".  😃

[MarkSG]

39 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

As for price (groan), am I the only person who goes to things other than toy train shows? Entrance fees are similar, and the petrol costs the same. Shows are good value for money. A days entertainment for less than the price of 90 minutes of football, or one anc a bit trips to the cinema. 

 

I don't disagree. But, realistically, most people judge value for money by comparing like for like. And, while a day out at a model railway exhibition is cheap compared to many other days out, Warley was an expensive model railway exhibition compared to other model railway exhibitions. 

 

That said, I'm not convinced this is as much of an issue that some people want to make it. All those complaining that Warley is too expensive seem to be the people who went to Warley. Which is fine, everyone is allowed to complain, but it clearly didn't actually stop them going. And I haven't seen, at least in this thread, people saying that one of the reasons they didn't go to Warley was the cost. 

 

I also haven't seen, at least in the information published by Warley MRC, that declining attendance was one of the reasons for calling it a day. Of course, anyone with information from closer to the source than me may disagree with that, but I still have a feeling that the statement posted by the club would have mentioned it if it was the case. It's not as if there would be any reason to keep it confidential. On the contrary, the statement on the website starts by saying that the 2023 show was successful with many thousands of visitors. I see no reason to disagree with that. 

 

So I think that talking about the cost is a bit of a red herring. The people moaning about the cost of going to Warley are the same kind of people who moan about the price of a pint of beer, but buy it anyway, or moan about the cost of a train ticket but still travel. That is, they're moaning simply because they're exercising the God-given right of every Englishman to moan about the price of things without it actually having any effect on their purchasing habits. 

[Steamport Southport]

17 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I know some RMWeb members have an aversion to some of the YouTubers mentioned on this thread but they have large audiences and are clearly reaching lots of people. Whether or not they're my cup of tea (for what it's worth, while I disagree with them on some things and roll my eyes at times I also find them engaging presenters with a passion and do think there is much to enjoy in their videos) they demonstrate there is a strong interest in model trains on that platform and that younger people are contributing to the health of the hobby. Surely that is something to welcome. 

 

The problem is - do they just watch the videos or actually participate?

 

We had a problem with my nephew, which I believe is very common, as all he would do was watch other people playing video games on YouTube when he had the games himself unopened!

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

5 minutes ago, guspaul said:

 

Feels like that old Yogi Berra quote "Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.".  😃

 

"The future ain't what it used to be!"

 

 

He was smarter than the average Berra....

[Ian J.]

Re cost of ticket for Warley.

 

At £21*, the price of four coffees from the likes of Starbucks. Not a huge amount. If your budget is really so tight, then you shouldn't be doing any railway modelling at all, you've got many other money-related things to worry about well before hobbies.

 

*I'm excluding travel and/or parking costs of course. Take those into account though and it's still cheaper than one away visit to a Premier League football match.

[PMP]

34 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Points under consideration:

a) I am using invisible ink

b) You don't bother to read before posting

c) Trolling

 

But he’s right, reading your list he hasn’t changed in the past fifteen years.

[jjb1970]

2 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The problem is - do they just watch the videos or actually participate?

 

We had a problem with my nephew, which I believe is very common, as all he would do was watch other people playing video games on YouTube when he had the games himself unopened!

 

 

Jason

 

I'm guessing their audience will cover a spectrum. Some of their viewers probably do just watch videos, but I don't think that will be the norm, most of their viewers will be engaged with the hobby at some level. I'm guessing some will be complete novices, some will be at the opposite end of the spectrum and most somewhere in between. Something very clear with Sam is that despite a lot of criticism he clearly is a very talented modeller and is very confident to strip models down, do repairs etc. His 3D printed projects have been very impressive.

[RichardT]

38 minutes ago, steve45 said:

Please don't spread gloom and doom without full facts, I for one am getting sick of it

Absolutely.  In responding to another thread on here about the various editors of “Railway Modeller” I was leafing through my bound copy of RM volume 1 1949-50 (not available in the digital RM subscribers’ library) and what did I find - a clarion call to model railway clubs to think about encouraging youngsters because otherwise the hobby was doomed. Doomed!  And I suspect that the wing-collared, waistcoat-tie-and watch-chain committee members of the model railway clubs of the late 1940s also couldn’t work out why younger modellers were reluctant to join them. (Or why they wanted to listen to that be-bop jazz racket.) 
 

Richard