Peterborough North

[Mallard60022]

I'm told duck feathers are good for dusting a coach roof or eleven.

I just love those helicopter shots; the signals really show up even more as being super models.

P

[cornish trains jez]

Right, I got hold of that helicopter again, so here are more shots from on high.

105 1.jpg

Bit too high for my liking that one.

105 2.jpg

Not much of a photo, but I left it in to show the scale of the layout. That is an eleven coach train. You could if you wish count the dusty roofs. I'll get it in the neck from TW for that. And deservedly so.

105 3.jpg

Of course to maximise your enjoyment , we have a man at ground level too. This is Grantham's A3 Victor Wild with an Up Leeds express by the way.

interior.jpg

And a view through the gloom. Its no use those passengers getting excited, this train doesn't stop here.

105 4.jpg

The A2/2 is waiting to take over a later train.

roofs.jpg

Shifting the camera slightly to the left gives this view of Peter Leyland's magnum opus. That roof fits to within 1mm, and all had to be estimated from a few photos, and then built to fit the site. Those gaps round the chimneys will be filled in soon.

105 5.jpg

Another look at the A3.

forecourt.jpg

The forecourt looking South. The replacement Crescent Bridge will not hang over thin air as this one does.

forecourt 2.jpg

And a quick turn to have a look the other way.

K3 1.jpg

To the North end now, to catch a K3 running through with fish empties for Hull.

K3 2.jpg

K3 3.jpg

K3 4.jpg

One advantage of these high shots is that I don't have to photoshop all those lattice posts.

K3 5.jpg

The sharp eyed among you may have noticed that the K3 has at last got the road.

K3 6.jpg

Just though I'd try this, and it worked better than expected. I was itching to photoshop it, but it would take some time, and I'm supposed to be doing other things. One to challenge Andy Y in the future I think.

 

That's it then.I hope the wider views will be of interest. Might be a while before I can afford to hire that helicopter again though.

 

We need to have an "absolutely love this" button!!!

[great northern]

Just though I'd try this, and it worked better than expected. I was itching to photoshop it, but it would take some time, and I'm supposed to be doing other things. One to challenge Andy Y in the future I think.

Cheaper if you sit on the top deck of that (wrong) bus though

 

sorry....Stewart

We could have borrowed it though, couldn't we? If some of ours weren't very well? Or perhaps an inexperienced driver took a wrong turning somewhere.

[Richard E]

Two things stand out for me and I've quoted the pictures concerned below.

 

The shot of the forecourt looking north brings home, to me, just how much we should concentrate on the bits outside the railway boundary by giving them enough space.

 

The other one of the K2 concerns me as the platform starter has been pulled off yet the point is set against the train - I do hope there wasn't an off the road incident or any infrastructure damage and that the signalman and driver have reported the obviously faulty interlocking.

 

Right, I got hold of that helicopter again, so here are more shots from on high.

 

forecourt 2.jpg

And a quick turn to have a look the other way.

 

To the North end now, to catch a K3 running through with fish empties for Hull.

K3 2.jpg

 

That's it then.I hope the wider views will be of interest. Might be a while before I can afford to hire that helicopter again though.

[Oldddudders]

 

 

The other one of the K2 concerns me as the platform starter has been pulled off yet the point is set against the train - I do hope there wasn't an off the road incident or any infrastructure damage and that the signalman and driver have reported the obviously faulty interlocking.

Not so, I think. The signal on the platform has been cleared, as the loco closely approached, no doubt, to allow the K3 to move forward to its resting point in this picture. Gilbert's caption for the subsequent shots shows a signal off to the right being cleared, and of course the train has proceeded through points correctly set. The complexities of semaphore signalling on such a station layout may not always be obvious to the casual, or even the informed, observer, but are the very reason why traincrew must "learn the road" to understand which signal applies to which line.

[The Stationmaster]

Two things stand out for me and I've quoted the pictures concerned below.

 

The shot of the forecourt looking north brings home, to me, just how much we should concentrate on the bits outside the railway boundary by giving them enough space.

 

The other one of the K2 concerns me as the platform starter has been pulled off yet the point is set against the train - I do hope there wasn't an off the road incident or any infrastructure damage and that the signalman and driver have reported the obviously faulty interlocking.

All depends on the locking.  Signal No2 (on the platform) would appear to have been cleared as the train approached - as Ian indicates no doubt to give the K3 a bit of room to draw up.  Unless 15 points also lock signal No.2 no harm is done as signal No 3 has remained at danger thereby protecting the points and we can assume the train has been accepted under the warning or Peterborough North had a Modified Clearing Point.  Possibly LNERGE might be able to answer the point (sorry) about the locking at Peterborough North and Ian's point about learning the complexities of such a location is well made - we don't know about the locking or the acceptance conditions permitted at Peterborough North.

 

In a subsequent picture in the series signal No.3 is clearly off and the train hasn't passed No.4 so its indistinct indication doesn't really matter.

 

Have a look at post No.277  in this thread -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/18451-peterborough-north/page-12

[Richard E]

Very intresting albeit confusing even to the enthusiast. Thank you for the detailed explanations.

[great northern]

The signalling practices at PN were unusual to say the least, and probably in some parts infringed the rule book. They were however tailored to the site, and no doubt took into account that it was a slow speed stretch of railway, where nothing happened, theoretically at least, at a speed in excess of 20mph.

 

The practical aspect of the signals under discussion is that the platform mounted signal had to be off for stopping trains of considerable length. The platform would hold only 11 bogies, so a train stopped by that signal would have had to draw up twice. Also if a stopping train wished to take water, it had to access the column at the platform end. The starter, unusually situated on the right hand side  of the running lines, no doubt for sighting reasons, would remain on, as would the home and distant, also on the right, just a few yards further on. The K3 was stationary as dictated by both the starter and the main signals, and moved when they were pulled off. The starter can be seen, but the home aspect of the bracket signal behind has been cut off by the top of the photo. That aspect was clear, but not the distant, as the train was booked to stop for examination the other side of Westwood bridge. I hope that clarifies things.

[Richard E]

And, perhaps, I should add that they were not the signalling practices of the area in which I have the greatest interest, that is on the other side of the country. It is your efforts, Gilbert, along with my residing in Peterborough, that have drawn me to follow this thread (the only one I do follow) with interest.

 

Having said that the myriad of closed lines around Langar in Nottinghamshire are also a potential fascination as they used to be within cycling distance of home before I moved to my current area of residence.

[The Stationmaster]

And, perhaps, I should add that they were not the signalling practices of the area in which I have the greatest interest, that is on the other side of the country. It is your efforts, Gilbert, along with my residing in Peterborough, that have drawn me to follow this thread (the only one I do follow) with interest.

 

Having said that the myriad of closed lines around Langar in Nottinghamshire are also a potential fascination as they used to be within cycling distance of home before I moved to my current area of residence.

Ah, now as our Chief Inspector in the Cardiff Division always used to say - 'the Great Western always locked two back (and the LMS didn't)'.  Which translated to Peterborough North would mean that signal No.2 could not be cleared if 15 points were not standing normal (unless there was some sort of special circumstance which allowed a relaxation).  However a train could still approach the signal if the points were standing reverse if a Regulation 5 acceptance was authorised.

 

Simple thing to remember - different railway, and places, had their differences.  Sorry Gilbert - back to Peterborough.

[great northern]

Another visit to Tony Wright yesterday, and here is the result.

Which means that in very short order I already have

Each of these took about a day to get this far, and I have managed to make some contribution to them, in fact I'm even beginning to see the satisfaction that can be obtained from soldering. I can still do without the painful bits though. So, we now have a Dia 155 second, and a Dia 114 brake second, well on the way to completion. Why take the trouble to hack Hornby's Gresleys about? Well, for those who are not too familair with the real thing, here is an end on shot that shows the difference etched sides make.

The other failing of the Hornby offering is less easy to spot, particualrly before the coach has been painted, but even at this stage it can be seen that the Hornby waistline is too high.

 

These conversions are still a compromise, but give a considerable improvement nonetheless. Having said that, we don't think a full kit build will take a great deal longer, and that will be the next step forward. I'm very fortunate to have Tony to guide me, and to do the bits that would result in the whole thing being wrecked if I got it wrong, so I'm very much enjoying the learning process. Tony does not expect, let alone require, anything at all in return for his time and input, but I'm pleased to say that my offer to do some scenic work on Little Bytham has been accepted, so this will not be entirely a one way process.

 

Now I have to go and play golf. I suspect the first thunderstorm is waiting just over the horizon.

[davidw]

Will these end up in maroon or c/c?

[coachmann]

Will these end up in maroon or c/c?

c/c............? Chocolate & Cream.........Ye gods, Gresley would turn in his conjugated gear....

 

Thee means b/c.......Before Crimson (lake).....

Edited June 7, 2014 by coachmann

[bigwordsmith]

Hawksworth's engines and Gresley's coaches - now there's a though to make grown men weep!

[stewartingram]

I believe a rake of Gresleys was painted chocolate/cream in the experimental livery phase of BR in 1948 - can anyone confirm this?

 

Stewart

Edited June 7, 2014 by stewartingram

[jwealleans]

A rake of Thompsons was painted plum and spilt milk, but I didn't think any Gresleys were involved.

[gr.king]

There are limits you know.

[great northern]

Will these end up in maroon or c/c?

First batch will be maroon David, but then if possible I'd like to try some crimson and cream ones.

[nerron]

A rake of Thompsons was painted plum and spilt milk, but I didn't think any Gresleys were involved.

Here is my version of one of these inspired by the Michael  Harris book P105.Note the central positioning of the number.

[coachmann]

I believe a rake of Gresleys was painted chocolate/cream in the experimental livery phase of BR in 1948 - can anyone confirm this?

 

Stewart

LNE trains of coaches were painted plum & split milk and chocolate & cream. I seem to recall they were Gresley stock.

[Mallard60022]

 

Apologies for going back a little and moving off coaches for a moment. I just had to reprint your pic here Gilbert because this is probably one of my favourites from the whole thread. I could sit and look at this for ages it is so atmospheric.

Phil

Edited June 9, 2014 by Mallard60022

[great northern]

LNE trains of coaches were painted plum & split milk and chocolate & cream. I seem to recall they were Gresley stock.

 

I believe a rake of Gresleys was painted chocolate/cream in the experimental livery phase of BR in 1948 - can anyone confirm this?

 

Stewart

The RCTS  green book Vol 2B confirms that a rake of Gresley stock was painted chocolate and cream in 1948, and used on the 0800 Yarmouth- Liverpool Street and 1544 return. One would have thought that other services might have been chosen that would be more succesful in bringing this experimental livery to the attention of the general public! Or perhaps of course Eastern officials weren't impressed by the directive, and hid it away.   What's more, two B17's were painted in an experimental light green livery to haul it. There is a photo of the train in Vol 2B, though in black and white of course. The caption states that the stock was in chocolate and cream. They did some very funny things back then. I for one am glad it wasn't perpetuated.

[davidw]

c/c and b/c oops what have I started

[jwealleans]

Well I'm educated.  My apologies for doubting you, Larry.  What happened to the stock after liveries were settled upon?  Were they repainted into the new colours immediately or left until the next scheduled paint date?  I'm thinking a chocolate and cream Gresley on the East Suffolk line (the next EDMRC layout, as it happens) would set a few rivet counters bristling.

[micklner]

Well I'm educated.  My apologies for doubting you, Larry.  What happened to the stock after liveries were settled upon?  Were they repainted into the new colours immediately or left until the next scheduled paint date?  I'm thinking a chocolate and cream Gresley on the East Suffolk line (the next EDMRC layout, as it happens) would set a few rivet counters bristling.

Hopefully it reacted to the Teak and peeled off after a day or less !!!!!