Peterborough North

[Richard E]

Another point surely is that these trains run in a sequence where they are quite widely separated so it gives time to assemble, break down and reassemble the formations. Also, it struck me that one could, if the formation permits, use some parts of the rakes as semi-permanently coupled portions.

[jwealleans]

To use a modern phrase, the modular nature of a lot of the ECML trains is something we've used to advantage for Grantham.  Once all the planned stock is available, there will be four or five teak sets to run as well as the streamliners, each of which has a core set of carriages to which different portions are added or removed depending where we are in the sequence and which direction the set is travelling.   At least one of these additions/removals (BCK for Lincoln) takes place front centre stage, to add some operational interest.

 

I'm sure the modern railway is more efficient but trains (as opposed to units) attaching and dividing is an interesting aspect of operation which has largely vanished.

 

Banks/Carter, LNER Passenger Trains & Formations 1923-67 is a very useful overview for anyone wanting to learn more.

[Mallard60022]

Gilbert.........what a superb wheeze old bean. 

I've started sorting mine but I think I might take some time and I don't have the 'proper' coach information. What would I be looking for for the SR mainline 1961 Summer timetable coach rakes? I've got the Express Publishing book and that's helpful for formations but it isn't a WTT.

P

Edited December 3, 2014 by Mallard60022

[jwealleans]

Are you in Robert Carroll's Yahoo BR Coaching stock group, Phil?

[Mallard60022]

Hi J. I've been told about that before but never took the plunge. Thanks for reminding me. 

Tis done now (two groups).

Phil

Edited December 3, 2014 by Mallard60022

[jwealleans]

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BRCoachingStock/info

[davidw]

It is time for me to unveil my big new idea. (Please imagine a drum roll here). One of the the recurring things about this hobby is that most of us want more than we already have, and more than we have got room for, or can afford. I have frequently admitted my failings in this respect, and it is unlikely that I will ever become reformed. So, I started to see if it actually is possible to have more for less. I announced a while ago that I intended to do a Saturday sequence, and then, when I realised the amount of work involved, that I wouldn't. Thoughts then turned to adding a bit of variety to the existing sequence by adding a few Q trains, and some of the services that ran only on certain weekdays. Out with the WTT, and the creation of yet another list, which, with a bit of naughty manipulation of the truth could give me another 11 main line trains in each direction. My first thought was to do as I did with the Leeds and Newcastle regular services, which was to choose four actual formations to represent all of those trains, as to do otherwise would be both impractical and unaffordable. But then, I looked more closely, and started to see trends in these formations. Could I do something with that? I then closely examined seven of the trains, and came up with this.

 

1. A West Riding service formed as follows:-  BSK(3 compartment), 8 x SK ( 8 compartment) BSK (3). In fact there were three trains with that formation.

 

2. A Newcastle service formed BSK(4), CK(3/3) 6 x SK (7), FK (6), BSK (4).

 

3. A 12 coach rake formed BSK(3) CK, 8 x SK(8.), CK, BSK(3)

 

4. An 11 coach rake formed BSK(3), 6 x SK(8.), BSK(3), 2 x SK (8.) BSK (3).

 

5. A 12 coach rake formed BSK(4), 2 x SK(7), CK(3/3), BSK (4), SO, RF, CK, BSK MK1, 2 x SK Mk1, BSK(4).

 

6. An 11 coach rake formed BSK(4), 5 x SK(7), SO, RF, SK(7), BSK MK1.

 

7  An 11 coach rake formed BSK (4), 4 x SK(7), CK(3/3), 2 x SK (8.), CK (3/3) SK (8.)BSK (4).

 

Please bear with me, this may prove useful, honestly. To get those seven trains, I would need "only" 77 coaches, and a lot of them are not available RTR. Time to give in and abandon the whole idea? Well, no actually, because I then looked more closely. Train 3 is Train 1 with the addition of two CK's, and Train 4 is Train 1 with an additional BSK in the middle. What's more, the other trains had a lot of similarities too. Now, all of these trains were going to have to be stored in cassettes, as the fiddle yard is full, so my next thought was "What's the point of having all these Brake coaches?" None of the formations uses more than three, either three or four compartment, so why not just have three of each, and top and tail the trains as necessary? That idea can be extended, as there are no more than two CK's in any train, and no more than one FK. The catering cars are a compromise, as there were other combinations, but SO/RF is the most common, and so would not look out of place. The MK1's aren't a problem, but what about 18 seven compartment SK's and 27 eight compartment ones? Well, analysis shows no more than 6 and 8 respectively in any train. All I have to do is to have two three ft long cassettes, each holding three SK(7), and two four foot cassettes, each holding four SK(8.). One more four foot cassette takes care of the CK + MK1 formation.

 

How does it work in practice? The brakes, CK's, the FK and the catering cars will live in the spurs which join onto Road 1 of the fiddle yard, which is dedicated to assembling trains. For most of the seven trains it will just be a matter of putting two cassettes one by one onto the cassette spur, and letting the coaches run by gravity down onto Road 1, then adding the appropriate brake at each end, or where needed, in the middle. Same procedure with the CK's and Catering cars. OK, one or two formations need the contents of the cassettes splitting too, but that won't take long. I'll post some photos tomorrow to show how this works, as the ones I put on before will now be buried many pages back.

 

 I finish up needing 29 coaches, not 77, and with them I can represent with complete, or very near complete, accuracy, fourteen prototype formations. I had identified five different types of train:-

 

1. All pre war and all door stock.

2. All pre war, and all end door stock, save for Brakes.

3. End door stock, plus FK and catering cars.

4. End door stock, plus catering cars and MK1's.

5. A mixture of end door and all door stock.

 

All of those can be represented, so I can put together most of what was to be seen back then. This is why I keep banging on about how useful a cassette spur can be, and twisting the arm of our Duck and Bigwordsmith to design one in to a new layout. I'm sure that the same exercise can be performed, whatever steam age layout one is wanting to build. Anyway, I hope at least one or two people find it useful, and of course I'm happy to answer any queries that these ramblings may raise.

Excellent planning Gilbert. An inspiration

[Mallard60022]

Forgot to say that one of my wings was only gently tweaked rather than twisted when Gilbert was outlining his wheeze. It needed no more than that, as I thought at the time the idea was very well thought out. 

When SWMBO goes away for a couple of days next week (or sometime soon,,,,,,can't remember) I shall spend an inordinate amount of time working out my requirements. It will be very relaxing.

P

[LNER4479]

I shall spend an inordinate amount of time working out my requirements. It will be very relaxing.

 

The duck house comes with armchair supplied then does it?

[bigwordsmith]

I deeply fear that Mr. Duck is going devote a huge amount of time only to find that that all his answers can be found by sending out trains with a  BK for every other other coach in the rake ( cf ACE)!

[Mallard60022]

Ah yes! But which BK and in which position, or is that going too far and should it just be the correct Diagram BK? Yes, the latter of course, as long as it is one the book says ran on the services. Then there is the as required extra ACE(s) and the MK1 invasion as well as the Maunsell demise. Great fun.......

P

[Andy Y]

That's brilliant GN, really does show how faithfully modelled the layout is. Here's the original to compare:

 

 

Oh, you forgot the bloke in the raincoat :nono:

 

Al.

 

Gilbert and I had another crack at this shot today and it's incredibly difficult to try and get an absolute match but Gilbert did have a brainwave that we could move the water tank a little which helped immensely.

 

Good fun to have a go though and we did find a bloke in a raincoat!

 

[Alister_G]

That's pretty damned close Andy, brilliant!

[Oldddudders]

Gilbert and I had another crack at this shot today and it's incredibly difficult to try and get an absolute match but Gilbert did have a brainwave that we could move the water tank a little which helped immensely.

 

Good fun to have a go though and we did find a bloke in a raincoat!

 

1BWs.jpg

Very good, Andy - but the bloke doesn't look as though he's flashing!

[trw1089]

Andy and Gilbert, that's as damned close to perfect a reproduction in model form that I have ever seen. It just shows to me how carefully the planning, modelling and photography have been thought through to get a shot that great.

 

Cheers

Tony

Edited December 3, 2014 by trw1089

[westerner]

Brilliant! Probably the closest I've seen a model shot to the prototype. Unfortunately its only when you see a shot like that does one realise how out of scale the loco lamps are. As someone said about one of Tony Wright shots of my 28xx on Little Bytham shame about the milk churns

[mullie]

Should we be using 2mm lamps in OO? The photo suggests the lamps are really quite small on the prototype.

[LNER4479]

E's comin' on int 'e GN, that trainee photographer friend of yours...

[Metr0Land]

Should we be using 2mm lamps in OO? The photo suggests the lamps are really quite small on the prototype.

 

I seem to recall Tony Wright saying he was going to experiment with 3mm lamps on his layout for just that reason but never heard any more.

[great northern]

Lots to reply to here folks, which I will do later, but first the golf course calls. It just occurred to me though that whilst we all seem to want more for our money, I'm going off determined to hit the ball less times.   Strange.

[Alister_G]

Lots to reply to here folks, which I will do later, but first the golf course calls. It just occurred to me though that whilst we all seem to want more for our money, I'm going off determined to hit the ball less times.   Strange.

 

So... if you walk round the whole course, and never hit a ball, you've won! Simple really! :scratchhead:

 

Oh, hang on though, don't you have to pot the balls in the pockets for it to count - or am I thinking of something else...

Edited December 4, 2014 by acg_mr

[bigwordsmith]

We have a game here called pseudo golf

 

Basically it involves starting at the first tee, then walking the golf course to the first hole where you all agree 'it's a gimme'. Then proceed to the second tee and repeat the process until you reach the 19th hole.

 

It makes for a very enjoyable round of the golf course, with none of that annoying 'who's going to buy the first round for getting the highest score' rubbish. 

 

Also we never lose our balls.

[coachmann]

Ref Post #6662, the bloke in a raincoat reaching for his pencil looks to have wrinkly stockings, bag and neck scarf on the layout. Well ahead of his time.... 

[Woollydog]

How come it hasn't been thought of before to use smaller scale lamps? And 4mm for 7mm...

[bigwordsmith]

@coachman. That descripyion sounds familiar- I didn't know Norah Batty was a trainspotter!