Peterborough North

[great northern]

I see I'm not the only one who finds bit of tree foliage scattered (geddit?) across the track.

Very high winds overnight, Chaz, so those trees shed a few leaves.

[great northern]

Hi Gilbert,

 

I hoped my comments might provoke a debate! I've been putting together rakes for the car sleeper limited and the Aberdonian and trying to work out when the Mark 1's came into service, but as you say, the information is not entirely consistent. I tend to work of the carriage workings which, I think, only show three Mark 1 SLFs and no second class cars in winter 58/59, with significant numbers not appearing until 59 (I haven't seen the Summer 59 carriage workings but there are plenty by winter 59/60. I suspect they were introduced gradually from late '58, but it would be great to have some confirmation. I think the mark 1s and Thompson's had similar capacity so may have been used interchangeably.

 

I've decided to go slightly earlier for my rakes based in Summer 1956. This allows me to use Hornby CCTs and Kirk SLS's on the Car Sleeper Limited, and for the Aberdonian has an eclectic mix of Thompson's and Gresleys which will be fun (masochistic?) to recreate. A third train may follow based on the post Mark 1 era but mixed with Gresley twins. This could represent the Night Scotsman in 58/59 if I thought that Mark 1's were coming in from that era.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Hi Andy,

 

Assessing evidence was my day job for very many years, so I'm now getting very confident about all of this. Looking at Parkin again, the dates given are for completion of orders, which would mean that all of those SLSTPs were delivered by 8/58. That is supported by the sightings in Railway Observer, which I find are usually very accurate, as the majority of contributors were mature enthusiasts. There would of course be no annotations in the Summer 58 book, as it would have been prepared before the MK1 stock started to be delivered, and I'd not be at all surprised if there still weren't full details available by the time the Winter book was prepared.

 

The evidence so far obtained convinces me beyond reasonable doubt that the ER had plenty of MK1 sleepers by the autumn of 58, and I can't think of any reason why they would not have been put into traffic immediately. I'll look out some more Railway Observers and Trains Illustrateds later and see if anything else comes up, but, as I say, I'm already pretty well convinced.

[TrevorP1]

Hi Andy,

 

Assessing evidence was my day job for very many years, so I'm now getting very confident about all of this. Looking at Parkin again, the dates given are for completion of orders, which would mean that all of those SLSTPs were delivered by 8/58. That is supported by the sightings in Railway Observer, which I find are usually very accurate, as the majority of contributors were mature enthusiasts. There would of course be no annotations in the Summer 58 book, as it would have been prepared before the MK1 stock started to be delivered, and I'd not be at all surprised if there still weren't full details available by the time the Winter book was prepared.

 

The evidence so far obtained convinces me beyond reasonable doubt that the ER had plenty of MK1 sleepers by the autumn of 58, and I can't think of any reason why they would not have been put into traffic immediately. I'll look out some more Railway Observers and Trains Illustrateds later and see if anything else comes up, but, as I say, I'm already pretty well convinced.

All part of the fun of this hobby Gilbert Edited March 28, 2017 by TrevorP1

[Mallard60022]

Hi Andy,

 

Assessing evidence was my day job for very many years, so I'm now getting very confident about all of this. Looking at Parkin again, the dates given are for completion of orders, which would mean that all of those SLSTPs were delivered by 8/58. That is supported by the sightings in Railway Observer, which I find are usually very accurate, as the majority of contributors were mature enthusiasts. There would of course be no annotations in the Summer 58 book, as it would have been prepared before the MK1 stock started to be delivered, and I'd not be at all surprised if there still weren't full details available by the time the Winter book was prepared.

 

The evidence so far obtained convinces me beyond reasonable doubt that the ER had plenty of MK1 sleepers by the autumn of 58, and I can't think of any reason why they would not have been put into traffic immediately. I'll look out some more Railway Observers and Trains Illustrateds later and see if anything else comes up, but, as I say, I'm already pretty well convinced.

Thus, ex works MK1 Sleeping Cars being seen in August 1958 'on test'. Robert is someone who's relationship with you is something  I still can't work out.

Ar4e

Edited March 28, 2017 by Mallard60022

[St Enodoc]

Thus, ex works MK1 Sleeping Cars being seen in August 1958 'on test'. Robert is your sibling's son.

Ar$e

Bob's your nephew?????

[St Enodoc]

Hi Andy,

 

Assessing evidence was my day job for very many years, so I'm now getting very confident about all of this. Looking at Parkin again, the dates given are for completion of orders, which would mean that all of those SLSTPs were delivered by 8/58. That is supported by the sightings in Railway Observer, which I find are usually very accurate, as the majority of contributors were mature enthusiasts. There would of course be no annotations in the Summer 58 book, as it would have been prepared before the MK1 stock started to be delivered, and I'd not be at all surprised if there still weren't full details available by the time the Winter book was prepared.

 

The evidence so far obtained convinces me beyond reasonable doubt that the ER had plenty of MK1 sleepers by the autumn of 58, and I can't think of any reason why they would not have been put into traffic immediately. I'll look out some more Railway Observers and Trains Illustrateds later and see if anything else comes up, but, as I say, I'm already pretty well convinced.

Trains Illustrated sounds a good bet. You might find some photos in there to help or hinder.

[thegreenhowards]

Hi Andy,

 

Assessing evidence was my day job for very many years, so I'm now getting very confident about all of this. Looking at Parkin again, the dates given are for completion of orders, which would mean that all of those SLSTPs were delivered by 8/58. That is supported by the sightings in Railway Observer, which I find are usually very accurate, as the majority of contributors were mature enthusiasts. There would of course be no annotations in the Summer 58 book, as it would have been prepared before the MK1 stock started to be delivered, and I'd not be at all surprised if there still weren't full details available by the time the Winter book was prepared.

 

The evidence so far obtained convinces me beyond reasonable doubt that the ER had plenty of MK1 sleepers by the autumn of 58, and I can't think of any reason why they would not have been put into traffic immediately. I'll look out some more Railway Observers and Trains Illustrateds later and see if anything else comes up, but, as I say, I'm already pretty well convinced.

OK, I stand corrected! That's very useful research, and it would be good to see a Summer 59 book to see if the Mark 1s were in that. Photos of sleeper trains are very thin on the ground unfortunately. I still think you're pushing it with the 1930 FO though, as that would be the last to get converted. I suppose you could argue that it was a trial?

[chaz]

Re: Mk1 sleeping cars and possible anachronisms

 

On Dock Green I run both 68824 and D5612 - this could never have happened. However they don't look out of place in each other's company - the J52 is filthy and the green Brush has no yellow on its ends. The fact that they missed each other by at least three years doesn't worry me. I know that your self-imposed rules are stricter than mine - you are modelling a real place whereas Dock Green Yard is fictitious - but it looks to me, reading through the postings above, that your "miss" is very small and might even be a "hit". We all make our own rules for what is acceptable. So, if your justification is a desire for greater variety in the make-up of your trains, I'd say go for it!

 

Chaz

[Mallard60022]

Bob's your nephew?????

Oh ti~s. Got it wrong again.

My excuse is that my brain hurts.

Phil

[Richard E]

Oh ti~s. Got it wrong again.

My excuse is that my brain hurts.

Phil

You can get something for that can't you

 

H E Adache

[great northern]

OK, I stand corrected! That's very useful research, and it would be good to see a Summer 59 book to see if the Mark 1s were in that. Photos of sleeper trains are very thin on the ground unfortunately. I still think you're pushing it with the 1930 FO though, as that would be the last to get converted. I suppose you could argue that it was a trial?

I've gone back a bit further and find references to SLPSTP as early as Feb 58 RO, E2552 and 5. That is contemporaneous with observations about December 57. March 58 refers to E2553/4 and 56-61, and April to E2562-6. In every case they are given as Doncaster built, and even the Lot number is included. It is quite clear that they were in use for the whole of 1958, with more coming out at regular intervals. Nothing of interest in TI though.

[great northern]

First tonight we follow the progress of the V2 as it steams along the Down main.

and then by way of a change, how about a bit of infrastructure?

Must get these buildings bedded in. Just takes the edge off it, don't you think?

[Liam]

You mustn't forget all the ash, clinker and general filth that amassed around those kind of places.

[great northern]

Re: Mk1 sleeping cars and possible anachronisms

 

On Dock Green I run both 68824 and D5612 - this could never have happened. However they don't look out of place in each other's company - the J52 is filthy and the green Brush has no yellow on its ends. The fact that they missed each other by at least three years doesn't worry me. I know that your self-imposed rules are stricter than mine - you are modelling a real place whereas Dock Green Yard is fictitious - but it looks to me, reading through the postings above, that your "miss" is very small and might even be a "hit". We all make our own rules for what is acceptable. So, if your justification is a desire for greater variety in the make-up of your trains, I'd say go for it!

 

Chaz

I'd say it is a definite hit now. Those records in Railway Observer look conclusive to me.  As you know, I already do stretch things somewhat, Deltic takes me into February 1959, for example, by which time some of my other locos had been reduced to scrap, and there is a double chimney A3 which didn't actually get one until April 59, but as a rule, yes I do like to keep things pretty tight. I'm quite happy about the presence of MK1 sleepers now, though nearly all sleeping car trains didn't run till much later, and would not have got to PN in daylight, which is another cut off point for me. Mind you the Aberdonian was retimed to 7.30pm from KX in the winter timetable, but I've just remembered it loaded to 15 coaches, so that is out of the question. That Friday only service is the one I can do.

[great northern]

You mustn't forget all the ash, clinker and general filth that amassed around those kind of places.

 That's the District Engineer's yard though, not a motive power area, so not so dirty I think. Even most motive power areas tended to be kept fairly tidy until the awful last years of steam.

[great northern]

Off to Grantham shortly to meet with 31A Steve, and spend a nice day discussing matters railway generally, and rolling stock in particular. I'm looking forward to that.

 

Today's photos still feature that V2.

This is one of the two that Ian Rathbone upgraded for me, and has his weathering job, so I shall have to put a new chassis under the body when the inevitable failure occurs. It didn't sound too bad this time round though, so I may get some more use out of it.

 

The camera then decided to point at the DE dept Sentinel, and why not, it is a nice little thing.

[chaz]

First tonight we follow the progress of the V2 as it steams along the Down main.

853 2.JPG

and then by way of a change, how about a bit of infrastructure?

between buildings.JPG

Must get these buildings bedded in. Just takes the edge off it, don't you think?

 

And that internal corner on the building on the right would be an inescapable invitation for a heap, pile of stuff, stack of timber, some old rope, chains, some ladders....

[Liam]

Off to Grantham shortly to meet with 31A Steve, and spend a nice day discussing matters railway generally, and rolling stock in particular. I'm looking forward to that.

 

Today's photos still feature that V2.

853 3.JPG

This is one of the two that Ian Rathbone upgraded for me, and has his weathering job, so I shall have to put a new chassis under the body when the inevitable failure occurs. It didn't sound too bad this time round though, so I may get some more use out of it.

 

The camera then decided to point at the DE dept Sentinel, and why not, it is a nice little thing.

sentinel.JPG

Does it ever get a bit of a run out, just to keep it in good order or when there is something wrong along the lineside?

[The Blue Streak]

Gilbert Said -

"I shall have to put a new chassis under the body when the inevitable failure occurs. It didn't sound too bad this time round though, so I may get some more use out of it."

 

Run It until it drops Gilbert.

Mine sounded like a blender full of nails until it finally died and that took ages.

At least you can document and photograph it on this blog, when it finally dies and run a relief loco out. As per prototype !

Edited March 29, 2017 by The Blue Streak

[thegreenhowards]

I'd say it is a definite hit now. Those records in Railway Observer look conclusive to me.  As you know, I already do stretch things somewhat, Deltic takes me into February 1959, for example, by which time some of my other locos had been reduced to scrap, and there is a double chimney A3 which didn't actually get one until April 59, but as a rule, yes I do like to keep things pretty tight. I'm quite happy about the presence of MK1 sleepers now, though nearly all sleeping car trains didn't run till much later, and would not have got to PN in daylight, which is another cut off point for me. Mind you the Aberdonian was retimed to 7.30pm from KX in the winter timetable, but I've just remembered it loaded to 15 coaches, so that is out of the question. That Friday only service is the one I can do.

Gilbert, the Aberdonian is a fascinating train with a wide variety of stock (at least pre Mark 1s!). It traditionally left King's Cross at 1900 or shortly after, but had a wobble in 1957/8 when the name transferred to an all sleeping car train at 2215. However, while not titled, much the same service left at 1945 in Summer '58. On FSX this was formed: BZ,BZ, SLSTP,SLF,SKx3,CK,BG,SLF,SLSTP,BCK,BG (the train split for Aberdeen and Fort William). This is shown as all mark 1s for the day cars, but otherwise ex LNER stock. However, if you accept your theory on the sleepers, these could be substituted with Mark 1s as well. I know you have some lovely BZs which could be incorporated ( although I read somewhere that one of the BZs was a ex LMS Stove R - not sure where I'm afraid). This would make a lovely 13 coach train and one which would be more likely to have the Mark 1 sleepers in 1958. Admittedly on Friday it grew to 14 vehicles including a couple of Gresley SLS convertible sleepers (as per the Kirk kit). I suspect that these would have remained as non Mark 1 for longer as they were weekend strengtheners, so you may have to settle for the FSX service, but just think how magnificent that would look!

 

Andy

[great northern]

Does it ever get a bit of a run out, just to keep it in good order or when there is something wrong along the lineside?

I run it up and down occasionally, just to stop it seizing up completely. As the DE area is only sketchily modelled, there aren't really many places for it to go, i'm afraid.

[great northern]

Gilbert, the Aberdonian is a fascinating train with a wide variety of stock (at least pre Mark 1s!). It traditionally left King's Cross at 1900 or shortly after, but had a wobble in 1957/8 when the name transferred to an all sleeping car train at 2215. However, while not titled, much the same service left at 1945 in Summer '58. On FSX this was formed: BZ,BZ, SLSTP,SLF,SKx3,CK,BG,SLF,SLSTP,BCK,BG (the train split for Aberdeen and Fort William). This is shown as all mark 1s for the day cars, but otherwise ex LNER stock. However, if you accept your theory on the sleepers, these could be substituted with Mark 1s as well. I know you have some lovely BZs which could be incorporated ( although I read somewhere that one of the BZs was a ex LMS Stove R - not sure where I'm afraid). This would make a lovely 13 coach train and one which would be more likely to have the Mark 1 sleepers in 1958. Admittedly on Friday it grew to 14 vehicles including a couple of Gresley SLS convertible sleepers (as per the Kirk kit). I suspect that these would have remained as non Mark 1 for longer as they were weekend strengtheners, so you may have to settle for the FSX service, but just think how magnificent that would look!

 

Andy

I looked at that 1945 departure  Andy, but I don't have room for thirteen coach trains, and I have very few locos that would be able to handle it if I did, given that the whole train would be in tension on the curves at each end of the layout. It will have to be the 1930, with a bit of Gilbert's licence.

[stewartingram]

Is my memory playing tricks? Grandad used to take me out on simmer evenings for a couple pf houts at Offord LC, Sandy, Abbots Ripton etc. I well remember Deltic D9004 when it was brand new, always on the Aberdonian for months at about 8.20pm through Offord (not far behind D0280 on the Pullman). But what I seem to remember was the last coach of the Aberdonian was a catering vehicle of some sort? Obvoiusly a tad later than 1958, but does anyone else remember this.

 

Stewart

[great northern]

My visitor Steve did not arrive empty handed. I already have some lovely coaches he has built for me, but in maroon. Now, I'm partial to crimson and cream, but he hadn't done any of that for some time, so we reached an agreement. He had one or two unbuilt Kirk Gresleys, so he would build one and paint it c&c for me, on the basis that if it didn't come out as he hoped, it would be a relatively cheap kit which might suffer. He need not have worried.

I'm delighted with this. Steve has done a lot of work on it, and it shows. I rate it far better than a Hornby Gresley, and I now have at least one of the very common Dia 115 seconds which I can look at without shuddering. Steve looked a bit green when I mentioned another seven though.

[Hawk]

First tonight we follow the progress of the V2 as it steams along the Down main.

853 2.JPG

and then by way of a change, how about a bit of infrastructure?

between buildings.JPG

Must get these buildings bedded in. Just takes the edge off it, don't you think?

 

You said in an earlier post that you don´t use focus-stacking for your images, but how do you achieve the fantasic depth of field in your images?