Peterborough North

[St Enodoc]

A manna after my own heart at last. 'Extras', a great excuse. Deffo the ECS or Troop Train, both great excuses for odd stock and 'interesting' motive power.

Philth

A breakdown train would be nice.

[Liam]

Gilbert, another excuse to run some odd stock are pigeon specials. They took both locomotives and coaches far away from their own regions. I remember seeing a picture of a 'B1' at Guildford, and a 'Modified Hall' at Bath Green Park. I remember seeing a thread all about them here a while back - if I find the link I'll paste in a later posting.

[Liam]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/8027-pigeon-traffic/

[great northern]

'Empty To Fletton' it said on the side of the Hornby Dublo tinplate bogie brick wagon I was given nearly 60 years ago. 'Flettons' were a brick I heard about occasionally in my later career. A new and more interesting reference here!

It is one of the memories I still have of journeys to London with my Auntie Val in the mid to late fifties Ian. I can recall that almost as soon as the train got over the river Nene there were brickyards on both sides of the line, for what seemed like miles. Lots of tall chimneys, and even on a fine day, lots of smoke. Particulary appropriate memory just now, as my aunt died last week. She was only 103 years old.

[Mallard60022]

A breakdown train would be nice.

It is in the old Engine Shed according to GB's stock list 

Philth

[great northern]

Fletton's.

 

Weren't they produced at Stewertby in the Marston Valley, Bedfordshire along with the London Brick Company and others ? I worked for the LBC drawing bricks back in the 60's and lost a stone in a week ! I then got a job as resident rock 'n' roll singer in the Marston Working Mens Club for thirty bob a night and all the beer I could drink ! Stage name ? Johnny Thunder !!!! Don't ask...

 

Allan

Flettons were produced at Fletton Allan, though other brickworks did, as you say, exist. London Brick were a major player at Fletton. By my period, nearly all of the flow of brick traffic was in the London direction, so apart from two wagons sitting doing nothing much in the old shed yard, I haven't done anything about modelling them. Yet.

[Mallard60022]

Gilbert, another excuse to run some odd stock are pigeon specials. They took both locomotives and coaches far away from their own regions. I remember seeing a picture of a 'B1' at Guildford, and a 'Modified Hall' at Bath Green Park. I remember seeing a thread all about them here a while back - if I find the link I'll paste in a later posting.

I wonder if that was the 'famous' visitior to Redhill Shed due to mechanical issues and it stayed there for weeks?

Philth

[great northern]

It is in the old Engine Shed according to GB's stock list 

Philth

Spot on Phil. I don't know whether it will ever come out. Perhaps not, as the doors don't open.

[Liam]

I wonder if that was the 'famous' visitior to Redhill Shed due to mechanical issues and it stayed there for weeks?

Philth

 

You're absolutely right, it was, and only last year was the colour photograph of one loco from each of the 'Big Four' plus a standard BR design published in The Railway Magazine. You can probably pick up a back issue somewhere.

 

Although I think it was the LMS design loco (its identity will remain anonymous until you see the photo) that failed.

[great northern]

Thank you for the further suggestions regarding special trains. As I have realised to my horror that I still have six, yes, six! cassettes waiting to be filled, they will be very carefully considered. There have been deveopments this morning though. Having at last succeeded in getting back to the gym and restarting my biomechanics course, I found myself back at the car with twenty minutes before my exorbitantly priced parking fee ran out. I happened to be near Gee Dee models, so I paid a visit. Now, they aren't usually very keen on discounting things, but that does mean that they sometimes have stuff in stock that has all gone elsewhere, and stock that has been a round for quite a long time, and thus is advantageously priced. That's how I found myself looking at some Bachmann sleeping cars priced considerably lower that even a certain Merseyside shop can manage.

 

Last week, when researching official formations, I found two interesting trains, one of them being the 7.30pm (FO) KX - Aberdeen. As you know, it is usually Friday at PN, even when it isn't, so that was worth a look. It was formed as follows:- BZ BSK(4) SLSTP SLSTP SLF  SK(7) x5 BSK(4) BG. And so when I saw two Bachmann SLSTPs and one SLF, what else could I do? Even more so, as for once I have quite a nice surplus of funds at the end of the month. That means there will be a train with some sleeping accomodation on PN soon. It will be quite a while before we get to it on the sequence though.

[thegreenhowards]

Thank you for the further suggestions regarding special trains. As I have realised to my horror that I still have six, yes, six! cassettes waiting to be filled, they will be very carefully considered. There have been deveopments this morning though. Having at last succeeded in getting back to the gym and restarting my biomechanics course, I found myself back at the car with twenty minutes before my exorbitantly priced parking fee ran out. I happened to be near Gee Dee models, so I paid a visit. Now, they aren't usually very keen on discounting things, but that does mean that they sometimes have stuff in stock that has all gone elsewhere, and stock that has been a round for quite a long time, and thus is advantageously priced. That's how I found myself looking at some Bachmann sleeping cars priced considerably lower that even a certain Merseyside shop can manage.

 

Last week, when researching official formations, I found two interesting trains, one of them being the 7.30pm (FO) KX - Aberdeen. As you know, it is usually Friday at PN, even when it isn't, so that was worth a look. It was formed as follows:- BZ BSK(4) SLSTP SLSTP SLF  SK(7) x5 BSK(4) BG. And so when I saw two Bachmann SLSTPs and one SLF, what else could I do? Even more so, as for once I have quite a nice surplus of funds at the end of the month. That means there will be a train with some sleeping accomodation on PN soon. It will be quite a while before we get to it on the sequence though.

Nice try Gilbert, however strictly speaking I think that the mark 1 sleepers arrived a little later than your period(late 1958 or early 1959). That 7:30pm FO in 1958 should have two Thompson SLSTPs and a Gresley SLF (same as the Hornby model). I'd always advocate more attention being given to sleeping car trains so will enjoy seeing the photos, but think how much nicer it would look with a couple of those gorgeous Thompson cars!

 

Andy

[Mallard60022]

Nice try Gilbert, however strictly speaking I think that the mark 1 sleepers arrived a little later than your period(late 1958 or early 1959). That 7:30pm FO in 1958 should have two Thompson SLSTPs and a Gresley SLF (same as the Hornby model). I'd always advocate more attention being given to sleeping car trains so will enjoy seeing the photos, but think how much nicer it would look with a couple of those gorgeous Thompson cars!

 

Andy

Andy, I think you are absolutely right of course. However in August 1958 there was a series of 'trial' runs (ECS, north and south) of the new MK1 Sleepers to assess the riding qualities as there was some concern about the bogies' performance at this time. This is a little known fact and only recorded in one volume I know of. Gilbert just needs to bend the rules a trifle (ummmm, trifle) as it ran on a Sunday, in daylight.

Philth

Edited March 27, 2017 by Mallard60022

[Richard E]

Andy, I think you are absolutely right of course. However in August 1958 there was a series of 'trial' runs (ECS, north and south) of the new MK1 Sleepers to assess the riding qualities as there was some concern about the bogies' performance at this time. This is a little known fact and only recorded in one volume I know of. Gilbert just needs to bend the rules a trifle (ummmm, trifle) as it ran on a Sunday, in daylight.

Philth

That's easy - emergency engineering works on the Sunday so a path was found for it on the Monday - rule 1!

 

Yours truly

 

Baldrick

Edited March 27, 2017 by Richard E

[thegreenhowards]

Andy, I think you are absolutely right of course. However in August 1958 there was a series of 'trial' runs (ECS, north and south) of the new MK1 Sleepers to assess the riding qualities as there was some concern about the bogies' performance at this time. This is a little known fact and only recorded in one volume I know of. Gilbert just needs to bend the rules a trifle (ummmm, trifle) as it ran on a Sunday, in daylight.

Philth

 

That sounds like a convenient excuse, but weren't the Thompsons beautiful (still work in progress)?!

 

[great northern]

Nice try Gilbert, however strictly speaking I think that the mark 1 sleepers arrived a little later than your period(late 1958 or early 1959). That 7:30pm FO in 1958 should have two Thompson SLSTPs and a Gresley SLF (same as the Hornby model). I'd always advocate more attention being given to sleeping car trains so will enjoy seeing the photos, but think how much nicer it would look with a couple of those gorgeous Thompson cars!

 

Andy

 This gets interesting Andy. I've checked Parkin, who shows first delivery of MK1 SLFs to the ER as being in March 1959, with more in October. However, the Winter 1958/9 official book shows *SLF for a number of services. Parkin also shows first ER deliveries of SLSTPs as being August 1958, and plenty of them thereafter, but I can't find any SLSTPs marked as MK1 stock in that 58/59 book. Where else would they have gone though, except to the ECML trains?

 

Then i turned to Banks/Carter, where they say that "By mid 1958 timetable changes had increased, and BR standard sleeping cars were being delivered. Indeed by mid year ten new SLFs had arrived, and some thirty new seconds, which allowed just about all the old four berth compartment sleepers to be sidelined, except at weekends". Now, Mr Banks is not always right, we do know that, don't we? The whole thing is something of a puzzle though, unless you have more information? If so, I'd love to know.

[Ian Smeeton]

 This gets interesting Andy. I've checked Parkin, who shows first delivery of MK1 SLFs to the ER as being in March 1959, with more in October. However, the Winter 1958/9 official book shows *SLF for a number of services. Parkin also shows first ER deliveries of SLSTPs as being August 1958, and plenty of them thereafter, but I can't find any SLSTPs marked as MK1 stock in that 58/59 book. Where else would they have gone though, except to the ECML trains?

 

Then i turned to Banks/Carter, where they say that "By mid 1958 timetable changes had increased, and BR standard sleeping cars were being delivered. Indeed by mid year ten new SLFs had arrived, and some thirty new seconds, which allowed just about all the old four berth compartment sleepers to be sidelined, except at weekends". Now, Mr Banks is not always right, we do know that, don't we? The whole thing is something of a puzzle though, unless you have more information? If so, I'd love to know.

 

Are Fridays not part of the weekend?

 

Regards

 

Ian

Edited March 27, 2017 by Ian Smeeton

[Mallard60022]

Are Fridays not part of the weekend?

 

Regards

 

Ian

Only if you work as a Market Trader (finance type, not  fruit and vegetable market).

Ar$e

[great northern]

Nice try Gilbert, however strictly speaking I think that the mark 1 sleepers arrived a little later than your period(late 1958 or early 1959). That 7:30pm FO in 1958 should have two Thompson SLSTPs and a Gresley SLF (same as the Hornby model). I'd always advocate more attention being given to sleeping car trains so will enjoy seeing the photos, but think how much nicer it would look with a couple of those gorgeous Thompson cars!

 

Andy

A bit more information Andy. Railway Observer July 1958 gives among new standard stock SLSTP E2571, and that refers to information which is a couple of months old. The September edition shows SLF 2052-61 and SLSTP E2567-70. These appear to be observations of stock actually seen running, so it seems to be pretty certain that by August 1958 both types were in service on the ECML, and surely must have been on the prestige evening services.

[great northern]

No doubt the debate over SLFs and other such acronyms will continue, but in the meantime, another train, another locomotive. This is 778 Down, the 5.50 am KX- Grantham, due to spend 10 minutes here between 8.20 and 8.30. Another featherweight load for a Class 8 engine, Doncaster's A1 Patrick Stirling.

[Liam]

Is the BSK a Bachmann one?

[Market65]

I think I can answer that. The Thompson BSK in the above photo is a kit. The weathering, bogies, and roof vents are all clues.

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

[great northern]

Is the BSK a Bachmann one?

No, as Rob says it is a kit built coach. The paint is still drying on the weathering job I've done on my new Bachmann ones.

[thegreenhowards]

A bit more information Andy. Railway Observer July 1958 gives among new standard stock SLSTP E2571, and that refers to information which is a couple of months old. The September edition shows SLF 2052-61 and SLSTP E2567-70. These appear to be observations of stock actually seen running, so it seems to be pretty certain that by August 1958 both types were in service on the ECML, and surely must have been on the prestige evening services.

Hi Gilbert,

 

I hoped my comments might provoke a debate! I've been putting together rakes for the car sleeper limited and the Aberdonian and trying to work out when the Mark 1's came into service, but as you say, the information is not entirely consistent. I tend to work of the carriage workings which, I think, only show three Mark 1 SLFs and no second class cars in winter 58/59, with significant numbers not appearing until 59 (I haven't seen the Summer 59 carriage workings but there are plenty by winter 59/60. I suspect they were introduced gradually from late '58, but it would be great to have some confirmation. I think the mark 1s and Thompson's had similar capacity so may have been used interchangeably.

 

I've decided to go slightly earlier for my rakes based in Summer 1956. This allows me to use Hornby CCTs and Kirk SLS's on the Car Sleeper Limited, and for the Aberdonian has an eclectic mix of Thompson's and Gresleys which will be fun (masochistic?) to recreate. A third train may follow based on the post Mark 1 era but mixed with Gresley twins. This could represent the Night Scotsman in 58/59 if I thought that Mark 1's were coming in from that era.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[great northern]

Off shopping shortly. Great to be able just to get in the car without having to bother someone for a lift. Before I go, there is another photo of 60119, now standing waiting time.

After the A1 left, it was soon followed by a shabby local V2, heading a Ferme Park -New England parcels.

[chaz]

No doubt the debate over SLFs and other such acronyms will continue, but in the meantime, another train, another locomotive. This is 778 Down, the 5.50 am KX- Grantham, due to spend 10 minutes here between 8.20 and 8.30. Another featherweight load for a Class 8 engine, Doncaster's A1 Patrick Stirling.

119 2.JPG

119 3.JPG

 

I see I'm not the only one who finds bit of tree foliage scattered (geddit?) across the track.