Peterborough North

[stewartingram]

I think it is better than trackside shots, especially near the signal box. Those shots tend to over-emphasise the swing out of the cab rear and the loco tender gap. As said above, it looks like a zoomed in shot with the resultant foreshortening. Even the front bogie swing doesn't really look too much. Reminds me of a shot from the front cover of a Trains Illustrated Annual.

 

Stewart

Edited July 8, 2018 by stewartingram

[richard.h]

Another no, there are no sharp angles visible between the the different components of the train so the picture works well and just appears as a typical foreshortened view.

[Podhunter]

Do you agree that this curve is far too sharp to allow this kind of head on shot to work?

No: if you were to take a photo of the real thing using a telephoto lens, the foreshortening of the track curves would be just what you have captured.

[great northern]

No.

Oh

[BWsTrains]

Do you agree that this curve is far too sharp to allow this kind of head on shot to work?

7 WR 3.JPG

Not at all, it brought back very fond memories to me of the view of trains exiting southbound from Temple Meads under Bath Road which is set a on a 80+degree sweeping curve, radius of ~200m.

 

I couldn't find exactly what I was thinking of by way of head on photos but a quick measure from Google Maps suggest this head on shot of TM platform 5 is of similar radius. This is of course much tighter than found at your setting but I love your photo anyway,

 

 

If it was good enough for IKB, should be ok

 

Colin

[great northern]

Ah well, completely wrong again. Hurriedly changing the subject, Deltic is arriving with its usual morning turn to Doncaster.

before contributing to future hearing loss among the spotters at the end of Platform 3.

[thegreenhowards]

Kirk's ?? compared to modern etched and r.t.r  coaches they are simply dire , all the above mentioned faults in the previous post, even the Roofs simply don't fit , the mouldings are crude in general and in detail and a product of the 1970's or earlier ?. The only part worth keeping is the basic box, the rest needs replacing with e.g MJT parts.

 

 

Big things are made about the Hornby Tumblehome and the lack off one, the real ones have a 3inch tumblehome that is 1mm in 4mm . You could say the earlier photo above  with the MJT coach leading the Hornby's are that the Tumblehome is actually far too deep ??

I agree about the Kirk’s Mick, MJT underframe every time with Bachmann or Hornby bogies unless heavy duty are required in which case it’s MJT again. I find the roofs vary - some seem to fit OK.

 

One fantastic thing about Gresley coaches is their diversity with so many different diagrams. This makes them difficult to model, but an enjoyable challenge. The great advantage of Kirks is the range of different diagrams they do (did) and the ability to cut and shut them to make even more. We’ll never have that range RTR even if someone does produce a ‘perfect’ Gresley.

[thegreenhowards]

I'm a lot confused Andy. Of course Hornby don't do an 'orrible BSK- theirs is an 'orrible BCK. I can't remember how or where I acquired that BSK, but it isn't up to much. It isn't just the lack of tumblehome that so disappoints me about the Hornby coaches, the wrongly positioned waistband just compounds it.  It's a personal thing, but I really do dislike them to the extent that almost anything is preferable.

 

As you say, it is best to keep Hornby and Kirk in separate rakes, and mostly I do. In fact, as the next image shows, nearly all of this formation is KIrk. I hasten to add I have nothing against Hornby, they have done some very good stuff, but the Gresleys were an opportunity wasted which still irks me all these years later.

I agree about the opportunity wasted. If they’d waited a few more years we’d probably have a much better coach....but at a price!

[St Enodoc]

Do you agree that this curve is far too sharp to allow this kind of head on shot to work?

7 WR 3.JPG

I agree with all the others who don't agree...

[great northern]

I agree about the opportunity wasted. If they’d waited a few more years we’d probably have a much better coach....but at a price!

 I think we are stuck with them, unless someone decides to do the end vestibule diagrams. As you say, they really would come out expensive, especially in teak finish.

[great northern]

I agree with all the others who don't agree...

 This puts me in a minority of one. Given the way the world now apparently works though, doesn't that mean that if I shout loud and long enough I will get my own way? Not that I intend to do so, I hasten to add.

[great northern]

Fish empties this morning, seen either side of the bridge.

[31A]

I appreciate the Hornby Gresley gangwayed coaches came out a long time ago now and were probably the first of the current generation of 'super detailed' coaches they did (?), but what a pity they aren't up to the same standard as the non gangwayed stock they did a few years later, which are superb.  As others have said, the error in the tumble home is very slight; I wonder whether we've become accustomed to seeing kit built models where it is over exaggerated?   Other details are good, but there are other errors such as tank filler pipes on the wrong end or on one end where they should be on both.  However as Gilbert says, sadly I suppose we're stuck with them ...

[Mallard60022]

Oh

I should apologise for being brief in my previous response M'Lud,. I should explain that my beak had melted and my brain was cooked due to the weather. 

Ar$£ 

[great northern]

I should apologise for being brief in my previous response M'Lud,. I should explain that my beak had melted and my brain was cooked due to the weather. 

Ar$£ 

You are not alone in your current state of frazzledness. Your reply was admirably brief and concise. My reaction was surprise because I expected everyone to say "that's cr#p, no more of that". But no-one did.

[chris45lsw]

I appreciate the Hornby Gresley gangwayed coaches came out a long time ago now and were probably the first of the current generation of 'super detailed' coaches they did (?), but what a pity they aren't up to the same standard as the non gangwayed stock they did a few years later, which are superb.  As others have said, the error in the tumble home is very slight; I wonder whether we've become accustomed to seeing kit built models where it is over exaggerated?   Other details are good, but there are other errors such as tank filler pipes on the wrong end or on one end where they should be on both.  However as Gilbert says, sadly I suppose we're stuck with them ...

Aside from the physical shortcomings the other main problem, of course, is that they aren't a "range", for example no Composite or brake third (3 or 4 compartments).  If Hornby had given us a better selection there would be less need to mix coaches of different origin together.

 

Chris KT

[great northern]

Aside from the physical shortcomings the other main problem, of course, is that they aren't a "range", for example no Composite or brake third (3 or 4 compartments).  If Hornby had given us a better selection there would be less need to mix coaches of different origin together.

 

Chris KT

I have a little bit more sympathy with them when it comes to selection. Whatever they chose wouldn't have suited everyone. No doubt they thought that the BCK neatly avoided the need for a CK or BSK. There is always an FK though, as Bachmann have done with the Thompsons. There weren't many FKs in reality, whereas the classic five set, and other formations, really do need a CK. Far too late now though.

[great northern]

I appreciate the Hornby Gresley gangwayed coaches came out a long time ago now and were probably the first of the current generation of 'super detailed' coaches they did (?), but what a pity they aren't up to the same standard as the non gangwayed stock they did a few years later, which are superb.  As others have said, the error in the tumble home is very slight; I wonder whether we've become accustomed to seeing kit built models where it is over exaggerated?   Other details are good, but there are other errors such as tank filler pipes on the wrong end or on one end where they should be on both.  However as Gilbert says, sadly I suppose we're stuck with them ...

15 years old I think Steve? I've been searching for photos I can post which show what the real tumblehome looks like, and this is the best I can do at present.

That looks quite pronounced to me, and is one of the things that shouts "Gresley".

 

I also lined up a Hornby SK with a kit built job.

This shows up the incorrect height of the beading, and therefore the lining, on the Hornby coach. for me, that alone makes it look wrong. Then there is the end profile.

 

The Hornby really is almost straight sided. Put the two errors together, and personally I think it is too far from, and does not capture, the characteristics of the real thing.

 

I agree that Hornby learned from this when it came to doing the non gangwayed stock, but will they ever retool the corridor coaches? I doubt it, and I'd be very surprised if a rival manufacturer decided to do them.

 

The camera has distorted this somewhat, but for me it makes the point.

[Sandhole]

15 years old I think Steve? I've been searching for photos I can post which show what the real tumblehome looks like, and this is the best I can do at present.

img20180709_14583632 (2).jpg

That looks quite pronounced to me, and is one of the things that shouts "Gresley".

 

I also lined up a Hornby SK with a kit built job.

Gresleys 1.JPG

This shows up the incorrect height of the beading, and therefore the lining, on the Hornby coach. for me, that alone makes it look wrong. Then there is the end profile.

Gresleys 2.JPG

 

The Hornby really is almost straight sided. Put the two errors together, and personally I think it is too far from, and does not capture, the characteristics of the real thing.

 

I agree that Hornby learned from this when it came to doing the non gangwayed stock, but will they ever retool the corridor coaches? I doubt it, and I'd be very surprised if a rival manufacturer decided to do them.

 

The camera has distorted this somewhat, but for me it makes the point.

That's about right!!

I think that is why the Kirk coaches are solid gold!!!

I keep on having a punt on Eface!!! for the vestibule stock I travelled on with my Dad to exhibitions in the 60's .

No car!

Liverpool Newcastle, class 40 over Standedge or, if I'm lucky, Trans Pennine to Leeds!

The price goes way over my limit!!!

Truthfully, I have the Gresleys I need, but you have to don't you??

Kirks, Love 'em!!!

                        C.

[Mallard60022]

[Sandhole]

post-98-0-80690100-1531085020_thumb.jpg

After the Worth Valley 50th last week, that is Tasty!!!!

The beast will have both engines fired!!!

Oh My Yes!!!!!!

                         C.

[31A]

Not wishing to argue, Gilbert, but in the interest of debate, here is a picture I took at Goathland a few years ago.  Look at the tumble home, especially in the distance where the middle of the three coaches meets the furthest one:

 

 

It is a very subtle shape, and I agree Hornby haven't caught it.  But the inward curve of the lower sides is really quite slight.  Not very different to that of a BR Mk1, in fact.

 

I do agree that the horizontal beading is wrong and prevents the livery (BR red / cream in particular) from being applied correctly.  They did rectify this when they introduced the full brake, and I believe they may have altered the passenger coaches similarly in recent production?

[great northern]

Not wishing to argue, Gilbert, but in the interest of debate, here is a picture I took at Goathland a few years ago.  Look at the tumble home, especially in the distance where the middle of the three coaches meets the furthest one:

 

LNER TO NYMR 22.07.07.jpg

 

It is a very subtle shape, and I agree Hornby haven't caught it.  But the inward curve of the lower sides is really quite slight.  Not very different to that of a BR Mk1, in fact.

 

I do agree that the horizontal beading is wrong and prevents the livery (BR red / cream in particular) from being applied correctly.  They did rectify this when they introduced the full brake, and I believe they may have altered the passenger coaches similarly in recent production?

Yes, I take your point Steve, but it is a pity it is all academic in the end. I was aware that Hornby had rectified the full brake, but I hadn't heard of that improvement being extended to the rest. If it has been, it may be worth another look.

[gazman424]

Hi Guys,

 Like many others, I wasn't satisfied with the shape of Hornby's offerings. I decided to scrathbuild my own. I would be interested in what you think of my rendition, given that I copied published drawings and dimensions from various sources.

 I apologise in advance for the very poor picture, which I took with my phone for quickness.

 

 

All comments welcome...

Gaz.

[MikeTrice]

They [Hornby] did rectify this [horizontal beading] when they introduced the full brake, and I believe they may have altered the passenger coaches similarly in recent production?

That is correct, all the range now have corrected horizontal beading. Unfortunately correcting the tumblehome (or more accurately turnunder) was a step too far that could not be done without massive retooling and cost. Even adding the Full Brake to the range was an unexpected bonus.