What is your usual method of payment for a local Model Railway Exhibition

[Dungrange]

The last poll I set up had just two option (cash / card), this one has four to include the 'missing options' identified in the discussion at:

 

Edited May 15 by Dungrange

[MarkSG]

I usually pay on the door (other than for bigger shows where there is a significant benefit to me to buy in advance), and if given the choice I'll pay by card. That leaves the cash in my pocket for the traders, not all of which do take cards.

[Dungrange]

Interesting that when given a binary choice between cash and card, payment by card was preferred by 3/4 of survey respondents (a quite decisive preference), but when given a 'no preference option' ,the picture is quite different.  Presumably those who have expressed 'no preference' in this survey selected 'card' in the other survey but that preference for card is relatively weak.  

[JohnR]

I think its a difference between the "local", typically smaller exhibition, usually organised by a single club, and the larger, set piece exhibitions, organised by professionals or groups of clubs (eg Model Rail Scotland)

[BluenGreyAnorak]

I know what you're trying to get at with these polls but I suspect the devil's in the detail where the options are concerned. For instance, I prefer to pay by card but usually end up paying by cash as a card facility isn't always available. I've chosen option 2 but strictly speaking, option 3 is more correct if taken literally. Also, the first and second option aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, JohnR said:

I think its a difference between the "local", typically smaller exhibition, usually organised by a single club, and the larger, set piece exhibitions, organised by professionals or groups of clubs (eg Model Rail Scotland)

Exactly, how are we defining ‘local’? Something large like Warley or one of the BRM shows I would definitely not class as local and would preferably book in advance, unless for some reason I’m not able to confirm my availability until the last minute when advance ticket sales have already closed (but unless it’s Ally Pally, my nearest “big” show, I’d have had to make other (travel etc.) arrangements in advance as well). Some of the larger narrow gauge shows (like NG South) I’d also like to book in advance if possible, but it’s not always available (not meant as a criticism); I wouldn’t describe these shows as ‘local’ either as people travel a very long way to attend them. For a small, local show in a village hall, it might not take very long to look round (so will fit into a couple of hours of the day, perhaps in the afternoon after some other activity) so in that case I’d generally prefer card if possible, but on the door rather than in advance. But the point is that, depending on people’s interpretation, the word ‘local’ is doing a lot of work here and possibly affecting the results.

[Dungrange]

Who would have thought that it was so difficult to write a question! ☹️

 

1 hour ago, JohnR said:

I think its a difference between the "local", typically smaller exhibition, usually organised by a single club, and the larger, set piece exhibitions, organised by professionals or groups of clubs (eg Model Rail Scotland)

 

7 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Exactly, how are we defining ‘local’? Something large like Warley or one of the BRM shows I would definitely not class as local and would preferably book in advance, unless for some reason I’m not able to confirm my availability until the last minute when advance ticket sales have already closed (but unless it’s Ally Pally, my nearest “big” show, I’d have had to make other (travel etc.) arrangements in advance as well). Some of the larger narrow gauge shows (like NG South) I’d also like to book in advance if possible, but it’s not always available (not meant as a criticism); I wouldn’t describe these shows as ‘local’ either as people travel a very long way to attend them. For a small, local show in a village hall, it might not take very long to look round (so will fit into a couple of hours of the day, perhaps in the afternoon after some other activity) so in that case I’d generally prefer card if possible, but on the door rather than in advance. But the point is that, depending on people’s interpretation, the word ‘local’ is doing a lot of work here and possibly affecting the results.

 

I'm primarily interested in the views of people attending 'smaller' shows (ie not Warley (at the NEC), Model Rail Scotland, York or any of the BRM shows - I'm sure there are other similar sized shows that I'm not so aware of).  We're definitely not competing with any of these.  Our venue is a bit bigger than 'village hall', but it will still be a show that I don't anticipate people travelling very far to attend.  I expect that most of our customers live within an hour's drive of the venue and therefore I'm not thinking about shows where people have to book accommodation etc. We're really just seeking to bring model railways to a local audience.  Therefore, when posing the question I was thinking about shows where the customers live 'locally' and match @JohnR's description (typically smaller exhibition, organised by a single club).

 

2 hours ago, BluenGreyAnorak said:

I know what you're trying to get at with these polls but I suspect the devil's in the detail where the options are concerned. For instance, I prefer to pay by card but usually end up paying by cash as a card facility isn't always available. I've chosen option 2 but strictly speaking, option 3 is more correct if taken literally. Also, the first and second option aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

Yes, I left out option 1 originally, because buying on-line in advance effectively means that you would pay by card.  I included it here because @Gilbert indicated it was missing and I can see that some people may wish to buy in advance (as @009 micro modeller has indicated for some of the larger narrow gauge shows), but if that option isn't available, then I understand that card may be perceived as the next best option.  Of course, since that option is not always available at smaller shows (or at least wasn't pre-COVID), it may yield a greater leaning towards a more ambivalent attitude to payment method.  I've also switched from the use of the word 'prefer' to 'usual', which means that there are probably people who would prefer to pay by card, but not knowing whether they can pay by card, actually bring cash and therefore often end up paying in cash.

 

Thankfully I don't have to write survey questions for a living. 

[TheQ]

Never PAid in advance for a show, as those that do have the option, are too big and too crowded for my liking...

They are almost always to far away too...

[009 micro modeller]

3 hours ago, Dungrange said:

I'm primarily interested in the views of people attending 'smaller' shows (ie not Warley (at the NEC), Model Rail Scotland, York or any of the BRM shows - I'm sure there are other similar sized shows that I'm not so aware of).  We're definitely not competing with any of these.  Our venue is a bit bigger than 'village hall', but it will still be a show that I don't anticipate people travelling very far to attend.  I expect that most of our customers live within an hour's drive of the venue and therefore I'm not thinking about shows where people have to book accommodation etc. We're really just seeking to bring model railways to a local audience.  Therefore, when posing the question I was thinking about shows where the customers live 'locally' and match @JohnR's description (typically smaller exhibition, organised by a single club).

Apologies, didn’t mean to sound overly critical, I was just wondering whether people’s differing interpretations of ‘a local show’ would potentially create issues when interpreting the results.

 

3 hours ago, Dungrange said:

Yes, I left out option 1 originally, because buying on-line in advance effectively means that you would pay by card.  I included it here because @Gilbert indicated it was missing and I can see that some people may wish to buy in advance (as @009 micro modeller has indicated for some of the larger narrow gauge shows), but if that option isn't available, then I understand that card may be perceived as the next best option.  Of course, since that option is not always available at smaller shows (or at least wasn't pre-COVID), it may yield a greater leaning towards a more ambivalent attitude to payment method.  I've also switched from the use of the word 'prefer' to 'usual', which means that there are probably people who would prefer to pay by card, but not knowing whether they can pay by card, actually bring cash and therefore often end up paying in cash.

I think that part of the survey is fairly clear in that it asks people what they would prefer (i.e. card if available), even if they don’t always get to do that option in reality. So if you go to loads of shows that only take cash for tickets (and therefore pay in cash) but would prefer card if it was available, you should still select option 2 (assuming you’re not particularly interested in advance booking). I chose that option despite my earlier comments because for the size/level of show described I don’t usually feel that bothered about booking in advance. For the larger NG shows (which can reasonably be classed as national/regional) they don’t always have advanced ticketing, but again I’d use it if it was available, so would select it within the terms of the survey (I did book in advance for the 009 Society convention at Statfold for instance, as that did have it).

[big jim]

3 hours ago, Dungrange said:

Our venue is a bit bigger than 'village hall', but it will still be a show that I don't anticipate people travelling very far to attend.  We're really just seeking to bring model railways to a local audience.

which is where I think a card acceptance would be a good option 

 

You may get chance visitors who have maybe seen the exhibition signs outside and came to the paydesk out of curiosity where you can ‘capture’ them instantly while they are in the building rather than have them leave to go to the nearest cash point where you risk the chance that they may not return 

 

[Reorte]

Always just paid in cash on the door, simple and straightforward, and I'm not going to be all that fussed about a small difference in amount (happy for the club to have it).

[Dungrange]

23 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Apologies, didn’t mean to sound overly critical, I was just wondering whether people’s differing interpretations of ‘a local show’ would potentially create issues when interpreting the results.

 

No need to apologise.  Clearly writing survey questions is an art: just like interpreting the results.  The sample rate is quite low, so it's risky assuming that the answers given by 25 people are representative of the population at large.  They may not even be representative of the RMweb population and there are clearly biases involved through using this platform because it's not a statistical representation of attendees at large - we're missing the opinions of families and the less obsessed railway nuts.  Interpretation of how someone defines 'local' is therefore just part of the overall uncertainty in trying to draw conclusions.

 

We're giving attendees three options - buy advance tickets, pay at the door (by card) and pay at the door (with cash).   With no historic data, we don't know how many to expect in each category. How successful has our advertising and awareness campaign been?  Will we break even?  Will we deliver the footfall necessary for our traders to make enough money to cover their costs?   As of last week, we hadn't sold that many advanced tickets.  However, the other poll that I've run about when people purchase advance tickets indicates that a lot of these purchases are made quite close to the event.  I can probably take our advanced ticket sales to date and assume that we'll more than double that by show opening.  This poll seems to be saying that for every advance ticket we sell, we might get another 20 people expecting to pay at the door.  Clearly if we can get 40 people through the door for every ticket sold more than 3 weeks in advance of a show, then it seems that I shouldn't really worry about us having not pre-sold many tickets.

[John M Upton]

Local shows always try and pay in cash (and correct change too if possible) although I see card payment now becoming more popular at shows.  Trouble is, if I pay cash to the club running the show, they get the lot, if I pay by card, they lose 75p on every transaction in fees and times that by the number of bodies coming though the door adds up to a significant reduction in income for what is for many the primary income source for the whole year.

 

Of course you could charge an extra charge for card payments, except I believe some silly sod in Whitehall has now banned that practice.

[AY Mod]

7 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

they lose 75p on every transaction in fees

 

I'd doubt it. Most transaction fees these days are less than 2%.

[AY Mod]

10 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

I believe some silly sod in Whitehall has now banned that practice.

 

Quite rightly. Some enterprises overcharged on the facility.

[JohnR]

41 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I'd doubt it. Most transaction fees these days are less than 2%.

 

Yes, years ago, card processing charges were often 20p+% - and sometimes different if it was a credit card or a debit card. But nowadays, even the smallest business can get a card processing deal for 1.75%. And as Andy says, the EU banned such charges being passed onto consumers in 2018. 

[woodenhead]

Here's some guidance on fees.

https://startups.co.uk/payment-processing/credit-card-processing-fees/

[Dunsignalling]

I go prepared for both, but will usually use card payment if offered, so I have cash available for later if necessary.

 

The relevant clause of Murphy's Law states you will find something you've been searching for since the year dot, on a "cash only" stand, five minutes after you have split your last twenty.....

 

John

[Chris M]

Another option is to blag your way in for free. There are ways to do this at most exhibitions but I would never use this option. In fact the opposite tends to happen to me. I pay to go into an exhibition and then end up spending a few hours operating a layout because the owner knows me and is short of crew.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

Trouble is, if I pay cash to the club running the show, they get the lot, if I pay by card, they lose 75p on every transaction in fees and times that by the number of bodies coming though the door adds up to a significant reduction in income for what is for many the primary income source for the whole year.

 

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

I'd doubt it. Most transaction fees these days are less than 2%.

And as discussed on the other thread, in some cases cash handling can end up costing more than the card fees nowadays.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

Quite rightly. Some enterprises overcharged on the facility.

And also it is quite reasonable that you cannot now be expected to pay more depending on the payment method you use (as opposed to only one being available, which is slightly different).

[AY Mod]

28 minutes ago, Chris M said:

Another option is to blag your way in for free

 

I'd never blag my way in but there have been circumstances where I've paid on exit. 😁

[55020]

I genuinely can't remember the last time I paid cash for anything.  In fact I don't have any cash in my wallet, except for some US Dollars from my last trip over there.

 

 

Steve

[Dungrange]

On 18/05/2024 at 15:41, John M Upton said:

Trouble is, if I pay cash to the club running the show, they get the lot, if I pay by card, they lose 75p on every transaction in fees

 

My understanding of the charges is that we will have to pay a percentage fee that is related to how quickly we want the money.  If we're willing to wait up to a week for the transfer of funds between the card processing company and the club's bank account, then the money we lose per adult ticket paid by card is just 6p.  If we want the money paid to us the next working day, then it would cost us 8p per ticket, while if we want the money transferred immediately on the Sunday afternoon, then the transaction fee per ticket would jump to 14p.  However, all of these costs are significantly less than 75p.  We don't need the money immediately, so I think we'll just be selecting to be paid a lump sum in the week following the exhibition.  

 

Therefore, if we get paid in cash, it's just an extra 6p per adult ticket for the club, but of course we then have the security issue of taking several thousand pounds in cash to the bank.  As part of the show committee, I'm not overly bothered by the loss of 6p.

 

On 18/05/2024 at 15:41, John M Upton said:

for what is for many the primary income source for the whole year.

 

Since we haven't run our own show in a few decades, it's never been our primary source of income, which is the subscription payments from members.  Unless our first show in many years is a roaring success, I expect that to always be the case.  I'm hoping that we more than break even, but I wouldn't want us to be reliant on the profit from a show.

Edited May 23 by Dungrange