norseman Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Great modelling of a real location. Thought I just would show a photo of the real thing, from Wikipedia: Another one here_ http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/0001-class-47-standedge-tunnel.jpg Edited February 20, 2012 by norseman 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Now that the hill side is coming along, I would really like to see a fuller view from curve to curve as in your second image dated 23rd August (when convenient). Been looking at these shot this afternoon and thinking it is a great location to watch passing trains. Hi Coachmann - will get the camera out for you on Sunday - the 'whole' view isn't nearly as scenically developed as the shots of the tunnel area, but hopefully it will give you the general impression - the Styrofoam embankment on the far left of the pictures above will be 'turfed' by Sunday though, so there will have been some progress in that area. All the best, Phil. Edited February 21, 2012 by philiprporter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted February 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2012 Great modelling of a real location. Thought I just would show a photo of the real thing, from Wikipedia: Another one here_ http://www.davidheys...edge-tunnel.jpg Nice pub just up the road from that location! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2012 is it me or is there an influx of top notch n gauge modelling on rmweb these days great stuff keep up the good work I've only just joined. But I have to agree that there is some amazing N Gauge work on here - rather more than we see in the NGS Journal. This model of Standedge is of special interest to me as I have looked at building a model based on Marsden. Trans-Pennine line appeals for variety of rolling stock (BR transition) as well as the scenery, canal, etc. I'm not that keen on the track layout though as I feel it does not make for the most interesting operation. As ever, I'm finding it hard to make a choice and actually get started. Just so many interesting possibilities out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'm not that keen on the track layout though as I feel it does not make for the most interesting operation. I agree the Standedge line can be a problem in places to model. I consider a station adds to the operational aspect but on a 4-track mainline it also adds to a heck of a lot of space problems expecially for storage sidings to service those four tracks. I well recall seeing trains going almost neck and neck downgrade through Marsden and a freight climbing in the opposite direction....... Exciting stuff ideally requiring several operators. This is why I chose Greenfield (on the 2-track section) over Diggle in the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Many thanks indeed for the kind comment Simon - it was Graham Hedge's 'Hedges Hill Cutting' that inspired me to go n-gauge - and his Stoney Lane Depot just blows me away with the quality of the modelling. If I can get anywhere close to Graham's quality of modelling during my lifetime I will be very happy!! Well it certainly looks like you have. I like the sense of real location conveyed, the use of height (multiple levels and so on) that are so important in layout design to avoid a flat earth look and provide interest, and the way the railway fits 'in' the scene (rather than, as sadly all too often, the scenery fitting 'around' the railway as an afterthought). GRAHAME. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clecklewyke Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Well it certainly looks like you have. I like the sense of real location conveyed, the use of height (multiple levels and so on) that are so important in layout design to avoid a flat earth look and provide interest, and the way the railway fits 'in' the scene (rather than, as sadly all too often, the scenery fitting 'around' the railway as an afterthought). GRAHAME. I wonder if anyone else remembers an article in Model Railways, probably in the 1970s, entitled "The importance of Z"? (X and Y being horizontal coordinates, Z being vertical.) It featured Standedge* tunnel as an exemplar of this non-flat-earth approach, and was very influential on my designs for model railways, most of which have used the vertical component to make up for the lack of horizontal space. The West Riding is a particularly useful area in this respect, hence my modelling it. Ian * Or was it Woodhead? Oh for a memory! Edited February 21, 2012 by clecklewyke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted February 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2012 Don't forget to put Compo, Clegg and Foggy on the towpath of the canal. Many scenes from Last of the Summer Wine were filmed near Standedge and Marsden. One episode recently repeated on Yesterday showed 47 475 in Regional Railways heading towards Leeds with 8 Mk1s in tow. Happy modelling. Steven B. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Well it certainly looks like you have. I like the sense of real location conveyed, the use of height (multiple levels and so on) that are so important in layout design to avoid a flat earth look and provide interest, and the way the railway fits 'in' the scene (rather than, as sadly all too often, the scenery fitting 'around' the railway as an afterthought). GRAHAME. Graham this is praise indeed - very kind of you indeed - although I reckon that your wonderful urban environments are probably trickier to make look convincing than rural environments and the intricacies of the built environment require much more time and patience than the less intricate application of flock and scatter! Well, thats my experience at least. Having said that, my next layout will be a Japanese Shinkansen model in n-gauge so that will be my first dabble into the urban environment - we shall see what pans out! Steven - yes I may have to sneak the three famous gents in somewhere not too visible!! Maybe under the canal bridge?! Its a great place to model and a great place to visit (as Ian says, some nice pubs!) and a great place to watch trains! Joseph - agree with your views on the track layout - but my first layout was in OO and was an end to end affair - for this one I really wanted to just watch trains run through the scenery and that is of course where n-gauge offers so much potential. Thanks to all for the very kind and encouraging feedback - its a real boost to someone who has to model in fits and starts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Now that the hill side is coming along, I would really like to see a fuller view from curve to curve as in your second image dated 23rd August (when convenient). Been looking at these shot this afternoon and thinking it is a great location to watch passing trains. Hi Coachmann - couple of shots as promised - not much time to add scenery this weekend I'm afraid - lots more to do, but at least I managed to 'grass' the bank on the left with a base layer of scatter - now need to blend it into the slope above the tunnels and add static grass - next weekend I hope. Best wishes, Phil. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 * Or was it Woodhead? Oh for a memory! Yes it was Woodhead. This is a good example of what the article was on about though. Nice to see this layout making progress. It is looking good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerhillboy Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 The stonework is Slaters stone courses (the OO/n-gauge sheets, not the really tiny n-gauge sheets) - Philip Was at the Glasgow show today, and having been inspired by your excellent looking brickwork I picked up some Slaters brickwork, However it was in really quite small sections, maybe 2inch by 1 inch, something like that. I presume that's what you meant by tiny n guage sheets then I'm guessing by the lack of obvious joins in your brickwork that you've either a) used bigger sheets or B) been extremely skilled in hiding the joins? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Philip Was at the Glasgow show today, and having been inspired by your excellent looking brickwork I picked up some Slaters brickwork, However it was in really quite small sections, maybe 2inch by 1 inch, something like that. I presume that's what you meant by tiny n guage sheets then I'm guessing by the lack of obvious joins in your brickwork that you've either a) used bigger sheets or B) been extremely skilled in hiding the joins? Hi Millerhillboy I use the A4 size sheets that Slaters produce - the issue is that the sheet specified as being 'n-gauge' (Slaters item 0422) comprises very, very small stones which may be accurate in terms of their scale size, but just dont 'look' right to me. I use the ones that are labelled n-OO gauge (Slaters item 0419) - which are probably a little large (the stones that is) for n-gauge, but do somehow 'look' right! Those codes are taken from the Gaugemaster website - which is where I accidentally ordered the n-gauge sheets from, only to find the stones were too small to my eye. Gaugemaster were happy to replace for the OO-n gauge sheets - to find these sheets on the Gaugemaster site type Slaters stone coarses' into their search engine. As ever, no connection with Gaugemaster - just a happy customer. As an aside, one thing I have learned from building this layout to date is how often things that are built exactly to scale just don't somehow 'look' right (the stones being one example). I wonder what causes this effect? Does something weird happen to our senses when we scale things down? I know colour shades are affected, but didn't realise just how much this mysterious 'effect' affects other issues, such as contours, slope angles etc. etc. Anyway, I digress -hope the above info helps, Best wishes, Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 27, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 27, 2012 I agree the Standedge line can be a problem in places to model. I consider a station adds to the operational aspect but on a 4-track mainline it also adds to a heck of a lot of space problems expecially for storage sidings to service those four tracks. I well recall seeing trains going almost neck and neck downgrade through Marsden and a freight climbing in the opposite direction....... Exciting stuff ideally requiring several operators. This is why I chose Greenfield (on the 2-track section) over Diggle in the end. I'm not that bothered about the four tracks. Would be a problem in 4mm but not in 2mm(N). But I prefer lines paired by direction rather than paired by speed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerhillboy Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hi Millerhillboy I use the A4 size sheets that Slaters produce - the issue is that the sheet specified as being 'n-gauge' (Slaters item 0422) comprises very, very small stones which may be accurate in terms of their scale size, but just dont 'look' right to me. I use the ones that are labelled n-OO gauge (Slaters item 0419) - which are probably a little large (the stones that is) for n-gauge, but do somehow 'look' right! Those codes are taken from the Gaugemaster website - which is where I accidentally ordered the n-gauge sheets from, only to find the stones were too small to my eye. Gaugemaster were happy to replace for the OO-n gauge sheets - to find these sheets on the Gaugemaster site type Slaters stone coarses' into their search engine. As ever, no connection with Gaugemaster - just a happy customer. As an aside, one thing I have learned from building this layout to date is how often things that are built exactly to scale just don't somehow 'look' right (the stones being one example). I wonder what causes this effect? Does something weird happen to our senses when we scale things down? I know colour shades are affected, but didn't realise just how much this mysterious 'effect' affects other issues, such as contours, slope angles etc. etc. Anyway, I digress -hope the above info helps, Best wishes, Phil. No very useful indeed, thanks. I'll need to take a closer look at these I have bought. I have to admit at first glance they did look OK but what you've done looks spot on and I'd like to replicate it quite closely. Thanks for your excellent reply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Madog Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Phil - this is a wonderful layout you are building there! Very inspirational and truly a lesson how important scenery is for the atmosphere of a layout! As to the issue of things looking different when scaled down - that´s absolutely true! One reason may be the viewing angle and viewing distance. We are not as most as our scale people. I also found out that my layout looks much different on the pictures I take. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Two of the popular photing spots were off a lane and off the main road looking down on the railway, so I think the viewing of Phil's model of the location will be quite similar. The two late 1970s shots show what I mean.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clecklewyke Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think this layout is going to be superb. (Not only because it features one of my favourite lines, locations and landscape.) Seeing coachman's classic views of the real thing makes me wonder if you have considered adding light-weight scenic extensions, which could be cantilevered off the main boards (possibly only for exhibitions if there is a lack of space at home) which would provide more of the "Z" factor - the hillscapes? These could be in easily-transportable field-sized shapes, the stone walls disguising the joints. You could also add that lovely canal warehouse. (Even better if you could take it back in time, reinstate the single-bore tunnels and have WDs slogging uphill with 40 minerals on but I recognise you might have a different view!) Oh yes - that is what 2mm scale does best - the railway within the landscape. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Coachmann beat me to it, same hillside in 2008. Semaphores are gone, the land by the canal warehouse has been tidied up, and they've invented colour photography (sorry!). The trains have got a bit more boring though. Compare to the pic in post 35 and it's really looking "right" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Coachmann beat me to it, same hillside in 2008. Semaphores are gone, the land by the canal warehouse has been tidied up, and they've invented colour photography (sorry!). The trains have got a bit more boring though. Compare to the pic in post 35 and it's really looking "right" One thing that amazes me with this location is just how much vegetation has grown over the years!! Compare this image above with Coachmann's and you will see what I mean! (and more has doubtless grown since 2008!!) Its made the modelling of the contours and hill slopes on the left hand embankment area particularly tricky - and modelling the rectangular water tank which sits in this embankment has been pure guesswork. Sadly this is on Network Rail land and they wouldn't let me anywhere near it! Makes me wonder how this guy got access to the abandoned tunnels, as NR were adamant that no members of the public were allowed anywhere near the railway on foot no matter what the circumstances??!! (Scroll down for the 'inside the tunnel' shots - fascinating). Thanks very much to everyone for all the very kind comments - as I have said before, your positive comments are such a boost to spur me on to try and finish the model which I have promised myself I will do this year so I can exhibit as soon as possible (exhibiting a layout being a lifelong unfulfilled dream of mine). I just wish Farish or Dapol would produce some n-gauge non-air conditioned mk2's so I can accurately portray the passenger workings! Ian - very interesting idea which hadn't occured to me - no space in my spare room for that at present, but it would be great to extend the scenery forward for exhibitions and enhance the 'trains in the landscape' feel - and yes, that warehouse is a very impressive structure that I would love to model. Let me get the main layout finished and I will then see if that can be done - its a great idea, so thank you!!! Edited February 27, 2012 by philiprporter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 I thought I would take a picture from the 'other side' of the aqueduct. Lots of ground cover and vegetation to add, but the aqueduct is complete, aside from representing the white water that cascades down the steps - will do this with clear silicone and some dry brushing of colour after some practice on scrap plasticard. The whole thing is waterproof and there is a pump and reservoir arrangement beneath the baseboard so real water will flow in a continual loop once its complete (this was the subject of the RMWeb challenge entry which I never completed). The 'props' are there to support the reservoir structure - it collapsed in steam days and washed away ballast on the two running lines that exited the now-abandoned single bore tunnels - to repair it the outer and inner faces were smeared with concrete prior to adding the supports and I have tried to replicate that with model filler coloured and weathered. Need to weather the support 'props' some more. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1059 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) One thing that amazes me with this location is just how much vegetation has grown over the years!! Its everywhere - Britains railways are rapidly becoming tree and shrub lined canyons. About the only places to escape so far are the high moorland and mountain lines where tall vegetation can't survive. When I returned to UK railway photography in 2007 after 15 years I couldn't believe how bad it had become - locations that had been completely open, even in the early 90's, were now closed in so badly that the track couldn't even be seen, let alone a clear view of the trains. Even more amazing is how much I now notice the greenery is growing year on year at locations I visit often. Check out these 2 views http://www.hondawand...eyford_1984.htm http://www.hondawand...eyford_2007.htm Taken from the same bridge 23 years later I think its a combination of several things - lack of maintenance by Network Rail, less effective weed killing chemicals as legislation bans the more aggressive concoctions, and progressively less pollution by the trains and road traffic since the end of steam that has allowed the growth of lineside vegetation to mushroom on an almost exponential curve (certainly the rate of growth is increasing year on year, faster and faster) Your layout is very good - it really captures the look of that location - instantly recognisable. STEVE Edited March 1, 2012 by D1059 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Steve will have noticed the increased lineside vegetation because of visits to this country, but I can add that it was also visible to regular railway photographers as the 1980s progressed. I stopped taking photos a good few years ago but recent visits to old haunts has shown them to be useless for railway photography today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1059 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Steve will have noticed the increased lineside vegetation because of visits to this country, but I can add that it was also visible to regular railway photographers as the 1980s progressed. I stopped taking photos a good few years ago but recent visits to old haunts has shown them to be useless for railway photography today. I don't recall noticing big changes through the 80's and most places were still relatively open (although that might just be because of the locations I frequented back then) - certainly its far worse now. STEVE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Its everywhere - Britains railways are rapidly becoming tree and shrub lined canyons. About the only places to escape so far are the high moorland and mountain lines where tall vegetation can't survive. When I returned to UK railway photography in 2007 after 15 years I couldn't believe how bad it had become - locations that had been completely open, even in the early 90's, were now closed in so badly that the track couldn't even be seen, let alone a clear view of the trains. Even more amazing is how much I now notice the greenery is growing year on year at locations I visit often. Check out these 2 views http://www.hondawand...eyford_1984.htm http://www.hondawand...eyford_2007.htm Taken from the same bridge 23 years later I think its a combination of several things - lack of maintenance by Network Rail, less effective weed killing chemicals as legislation bans the more aggressive concoctions, and progressively less pollution by the trains and road traffic since the end of steam that has allowed the growth of lineside vegetation to mushroom on an almost exponential curve (certainly the rate of growth is increasing year on year, faster and faster) Your layout is very good - it really captures the look of that location - instantly recognisable. STEVE Thanks for the kind words Steve - amazed by those two pictures - it really looks like two different locations! Incredible! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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