Early Risers.

[woodenhead]

18 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

Has anyone asked your police what they'd rather be armed with?

It's not their choice, we are policed by consent and unless the people vote to consent they should only carry them where they are considered necessary for public safety.

 

18 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Bear has visited numerous countries - most, if not all outside the UK featured Plod carrying guns.  Did it phase me?  Not one bit - it meant I respected them more (something that's sadly long-gone in the UK).  Did it worry me?  Nope - I wasn't doing anything wrong.

 

 

That would suggest that the police would be free to use the gun if you did not respect them - that appears to me to be the American model - stop or I shoot regardless of your own armed status.

[PhilJ W]

58 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Having dropped her off at the station I took the opportunity of negotiating the Sainsbury's Grand Prix which, for a Sunday afternoon, wasn't at all bad.  Everything on the list was available except ghee.  I can probably get that another time; I don't need it every day nor even every week.  I then came home and came face to face with C0ckwomble Driver No.1.  Heading over the moors on that hilly and winding road the oncoming bus had stopped at a rural farm lane to set down a passenger.  Two cars were behind; the first came around with plenty of room to spare and the second waited.  As the driver would have been unable to see anything at all around the bus due to the curvature and hills I expected they would stay waited.  

But no.  

I was perhaps a bus-length away from coming past when out he came, into my lane, with me approaching at a cautious 45mph.  I hit brakes, horn and headlights all at the same time and stopped in short order only to see a green something cut sharply into the fast-closing gap with an erect middle finger poking from the driver's window in my general direction.  I really MUST get that idiot-cam fitted because if it had been recording I would have had his plate and referred him to the local constabulary.  Who are running a "send us your dash-cam footage of dodgy driving" campaign and publishing the results online.  

Would the bus have been fitted with cameras?

[PhilJ W]

28 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

Has anyone asked your police what they'd rather be armed with?

They have, and the majority preferred not to be armed.

[monkeysarefun]

10 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

 they should only carry them where they are considered necessary for public safety.

So POLICE  safety isn't an issue there? 

 

Police here used to carry  6 shot Smith and Wessons. Following a siege where two officers were shot and killed,  the shortcomings of that revolver were highlighted and the police were re-equipped with Glocks.  That was in response to a government acknowledgement that the police weren't adequately equipped to do their jobs and their lives were in peril because of it.

 

As a member of the public, I'm happy that those who risk their lives daily for us get the best equipment they can have  in order to ensure THEIR safety.

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, pH said:

Yesterday, to end a discussion item about the current unrest on US university campuses, CBC played Neil Young’s “Ohio”:

 

https://youtu.be/YdVMGKOFIwY?si=GUvsNF_V8Y1cN5qe

 

I've got that on the CSN&Y album Four Way Street there is also the track, Chicago, which make interesting listening. 

 

As to police and guns, I never carried one in 29 years and  was never threatened with  a gun. I have no objection to police being armed and knew several officers that in my opinion should never have been let close to a lethal weapon.  Fortunately there are few permanently armed officers unless you are near Central London, some airports or nuclear installations.  I would sincerely hope that the situation stays that way.  I did feel my life was threatened on a couple of occasions and managed to survive them with the immediate application of a length of hardwood to the scrote. 

 

Jamie

[woodenhead]

I'm out of this insane argument - meant to be Early Risers, somewhere to chat not argue over guns.

[monkeysarefun]

7 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I'm out of this insane argument - meant to be Early Risers, somewhere to chat not argue over guns.

 

 

Oh, so you only booked the five minute argument, not the full half hour! 🙂

Edited April 29 by monkeysarefun

[Gwiwer]

35 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Would the bus have been fitted with cameras?

CCTV yes; dash-cam no.

[Gwiwer]

I am OK with a sensible discussion around police and firearms.  I don't see it as a argument in the sense of protagonists at ten paces.  

 

I do respect the sentiments around the recent events at Bondi Junction mall which is most regrettable and extremely uncommon in Australia.  However whilst the officer who discharged her weapon did so in direct response to events and the ongoing threat it may well have been that a taser (had one been available) might also have brought the shooter down.  

 

Many UK police are issued with the non-lethal taser, or can be issued with them if they are likely to face disorder on duty which might require their use.  They are considered non-lethal weapons of defence not lethal weapons of force.  Victims are disabled instantly and for such time as it takes to secure them and remove them from the scene.  A clear shot at close range is required - unlike a gunshot which requires a clear shot but can be deployed at much greater distances - but their efficiency at ending violent confrontations is not in doubt.  

 

I am all in favour of police (anywhere) carrying sufficient items to protect themselves and to prevent an ongoing and immediate threat to others.  That does not by any means imply they should carry firearms.  

 

In response to the suggestion that British railway stations are patrolled by sub-machine-gun toting police that is not true.  St. Pancras International has a few such officers localised to the international arrivals / departures area because it is a port of entry.  Otherwise it is the unarmed British Transport Police who are responsible for all railway premises.  They - at their discretion - may invite the local force for example the Metropolitan Police in London to assist them but Met Police officers will only patrol stations in response to a direct security threat.  They did that in recent times when the UK national security threat level was raised to Critical as it was likely that a railway station would be targeted.  They were stood down when the threat level was lowered.  

 

I spent the last six years of my working life at one of the busiest stations in the country, just outside two major London terminals and on the direct route to Gatwick Airport.  It was (and is) a Category A list location and is considered high-risk because of its strategic importance and connectivity to other places.  We very seldom saw police on patrol.  The BTP had a base there but it was not continuously attended.  The response required from staff in the event of need was to call 999; the emergency operator would either direct the call to the BTP or, should it require a level of response they could not provide, would assign Met Police whilst notifying the BTP of events.  

 

We called the police around once a year.  Mostly to unruly passengers.  Only once was there a suspicious package which could not be ascertained under station protocols to be safe; the Met Police were there within 90 seconds of the call and declared it safe within 3 minutes.  Without guns or sniffer robots and without the need to close and evacuate more than the immediate 400m radius.

 

 That is policing by consent.   

[TheQ]

Not just nuclear plants have armed guards, oil refineries and gas refineries have too. But they're in a 4x4 with the weapons locked in a boot. Not sure i fancy being in a gas works when someone starts shooting..

 

2.5 hours rebuilding lawnmower deck, took the time to also sharpen the blades, tidy up and find... Yep two bits left over under the spanner roll, deck off, bits fitted, Deck on... 3.5 hours total spent.

Then a couple of hours mowing, did most normal areas on highest cut, and a couple of cut throughs through the jungle. Then set to mid position height, and mowed again the main walkway from house to mobile home / muddling shed.

 

That will do for the day, I'm off to get our pills, as the doctors pharmacy will have reopened after lunch.

 

 

[monkeysarefun]

 To change the mood a little I've been  posing down the pub  walking past a locked up yard in a nearby industrial estate on the weekend and discovered the earthly remains of  Herbie the Love bug.

 

 

 

 

 

Wondering what the Kingoonya Pub mentioned on the sticker there was all about I googled it.

 

Turns out its in outback South Australia and going by the photos on the google maps page  it'd be the perfect place for many ER's to move to. 

 

It features 

 

Night skies for @PupCam

 

 

 

 

 

Train spotting for @jamie92208

 

 

 

 

Michelin gourmet cooking for @iL Dottore

 

 

An Old Landrovers support group for @TheQ

 

 

Some non-psycho paddock ornaments for @Grizz

 

 

 

A fixer-upper with appropriate gate signage for @polybear

 

 

 

 

A massive shed for @Winslow Boy

 

 

A non-raining bike riding experience for @New Haven Neil

 

 

Umpiring opportunities for @Barry O

 

 

And a look-a-like competition for @grandadbob

 

 

 

Edited April 29 by monkeysarefun

[Winslow Boy]

5 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

Easy for you to say, but you'd be the first to complain if you lost your right to Bear arms. Oh wait, you wouldnt be able to do it by letter though because you'd have no arms! LOL.

Given the fact that Royal Mail are only delivering mail if they feel like it, it's unlikely that it would be delivered anyway.

[monkeysarefun]

57 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

That does not by any means imply they should carry firearms.  

 

 

 

 I'd lump the  1980's-vintage NSW Transit cops in that category! 

 

Insufficiently adequate   to get into the actual cops, they patrolled the trains and stations of the NSW rail network, armed and ready to prove it at any justification. My experience of them was when 3 mates and I were going into the city one Friday night to see a band - one of my mates showed his University of Wollongong*  travel card but it was denied by the ticket selling guy.

 

. My mate said something or other under his breath and we boarded the train but unbeknown to us, the ticket guy must have had a secret button or something because 5 minutes into our trip, 2 of the NSW transit police forces  finest came into the carriage  and confronted us.

 

The older one told my mate to leave the train as we pulled into Warwick Farm station and reached for his gun to make the point more obvious. The rest of us weren't sure if we were meant to follow or stay aboard, until the younger pretend cop  said "Yous can go too if yous want" so we did.

 

Warwick Farm station is a minor stop where only one in 10 trains pull into so we had quite a wait, but we still got to the venue well before the band bothered to show up.

 

If it had come to a shoot out I reckon my mate sitting behind the two cops could have taken at least one of them out via a  kidney punch or a whack behind the knees and I could have gone for the younger ones gun and held him hostage until they honoured the Wollongong travel concession card and refunded my other mate the cash discount he'd been denied.

  

 

* no, not Woolloomooloo, just to fend off any M. Python fans...

 

Edited April 29 by monkeysarefun

[Hroth]

3 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

Given the fact that Royal Mail are only delivering mail if they feel like it, it's unlikely that it would be delivered anyway.

 

Going by that, I should feel honoured as a postman rang my doorbell this morning and DIDN'T run away!

 

[Ozexpatriate]

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

they have tasers which are effective at stopping most people in their tracks

Yes and no. Sometimes they are effective.

 

Sometimes their use (or threatened use) gets really complicated.

[TheQ]

1 hour ago, monkeysarefun said:

So POLICE  safety isn't an issue there? 

 

Police here used to carry  6 shot Smith and Wessons. Following a siege where two officers were shot and killed,  the shortcomings of that revolver were highlighted and the police were re-equipped with Glocks.  That was in response to a government acknowledgement that the police weren't adequately equipped to do their jobs and their lives were in peril because of it.

 

As a member of the public, I'm happy that those who risk their lives daily for us get the best equipment they can have  in order to ensure THEIR safety.

With the American police record with their weapons, for their own safety, they definitely shouldn't carry them.

Edited April 29 by TheQ

[monkeysarefun]

1 minute ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Yes and no. Sometimes they are effective.

 

Sometimes their use (or threatened use) gets really complicated.

And here there was an awful case where a police officer responded to a call to a nursing home where a 95 year old woman was reported to be holding two knives as she walked within the facility using her walking frame.  Staff alleged  she refused to drop the knives when staff intervened so they  called police after being unable to contact her next of kin.

Senior Constable White, another officer and ambulance staff found Ms Nowland in a room holding one of the knives that had been taken from the kitchen area, according to court documents.

The second officer allegedly attempted to grab the knife off her, but she raised her hand and "retreated".

Senior Constable White allegedly took out and activated his taser as Ms Nowland "slowly" moved towards the group.

He allegedly told Ms Nowland: "Clare, stop now, see this, this is a taser, drop it now, drop it, this is your first warning."

After further discussion and "little to no reaction" from Ms Nowland, court documents state she raised the knife towards Senior Constable White's colleague.

Senior Constable White then allegedly said, "Stop just … Nah, bu99er it", before using the taser.

Ms Nowland fell and fractured her skull before she was rushed to hospital in a critical condition where she later died

She was survived by eight children, 24 grandchildren and 31 great-grandchildren.

Her family have also filed a civil case against the state of New South Wales over the incident.

Senior Constable White remains suspended from duty with pay and has since been charged with manslaughter. 

[Ozexpatriate]

7 hours ago, polybear said:

OK, so make it law that the only guns that can be made and sold in the US (apart from those for law enforcement etc.) have a very limited power and a very small magazine (1 or 2?)

People have been proposing magazine limitations for years. In 2022, the citizens of Oregon voted on a Measure (114) to require gun owners to complete a gun safety class, have a permit to purchase, insist on background checks and limit magazine sizes to 10. Due to court challenges, it is still not in effect.

 

[Tony_S]

4 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

local shops at Tarpots so he didn't have to go to Bluewater. 

Yes we did. I had mine done at the chemist at Tarpots last week. I qualified for a vaccine due to an impaired immune system rather than the age criterion. Aditi’s heath conditions and living with a vulnerable person did not qualify her for an NHS jab, her next one will be in the Autumn booster phase. She didn’t particularly want lowering levels of protection between now and the autumn so decided to book a private vaccination at Boots. The choice was Romford or Bluewater. 
The trip to the big shops was quite nice, it wasn’t crowded. We went into a shop called “Snow and Rock” and looked at rainwear.  Aditi was of course drawn to the most expensive range they had (without even seeing a price tag). They didn’t have her size in stock though. 
Bluewater doesn’t look like a place in decline, our nearest shopping centre/mall looked shabby when we last went but it was a late evening just before closing so perhaps not a totally fair comparison. 
Tony

 

[Winslow Boy]

28 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Going by that, I should feel honoured as a postman rang my doorbell this morning and DIDN'T run away!

 

Oh make a note of it as it will probably be a long time before you get another delivery.

[Ozexpatriate]

4 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

I do recall reading that the fifth amendment states, or did state that the right to carry arms was to protect the citizens from the British.

Not the fifth - that's all jurisprudence - grand jury, double jeopardy, self incrimination*, due process, etc

 

* "Taking the Fifth".

[Hroth]

1 minute ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Not the fifth - that's all jurisprudence - grand jury, double jeopardy, self incrimination*, due process, etc

 

* "Taking the Fifth".

 

Thought that was a pocket sized bottle of spiritous liquor?  🤪

 

Ok, I know what you mean!

 

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Bear has visited numerous countries - most, if not all outside the UK featured Plod carrying guns.  Did it phase me?  Not one bit - it meant I respected them more (something that's sadly long-gone in the UK).  Did it worry me?  Nope - I wasn't doing anything wrong.

 

Israel.. everyone is armed.

 

Got on a train, this little old granny sat down, put her bags to the floor and leaned her rifle against the side of the carriage!, no one even noticed but me… younger ones, t-shirt, jeans, backpack and assault rifle..sure.

 

 

[monkeysarefun]

30 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

People have been proposing magazine limitations for years. In 2022, the citizens of Oregon voted on a Measure (114) to require gun owners to complete a gun safety class, have a permit to purchase, insist on background checks and limit magazine sizes to 10. Due to court challenges, it is still not in effect.

 

Thats the other option, forget banning guns, just make buying the ammo a pain in the ar5e.

[Hroth]

Time for a muggatea anna cinnamon bun!