New B17

[toboldlygo]

R3003 B17/6 Barnsley now showing in stock at Hornby...

[CUTLER2579]

There's never been any need to wait...

 

 

Waiting for a cheap footballer on Ebay to do 'Middlesbrough'...

 

 

 

 Rare to see those two words in the same sentence since the days of Raich Carter. as Manager.

[jwealleans]

Oh, Derek, if you could hear my mother waxing lyrical about Juninho, Emerson, Ravanelli, Hignett, Parlour, or the Jack Charlton days of Souness, Johnston, Hodgson, even the famously Irish Bernie Slaven, you'd change your mind.

[CUTLER2579]

Oh, Derek, if you could hear my mother waxing lyrical about Juninho, Emerson, Ravanelli, Hignett, Parlour, or the Jack Charlton days of Souness, Johnston, Hodgson, even the famously Irish Bernie Slaven, you'd change your mind.

 

Obviously one very astute Lady, Johnathan. She probably remembers Ayresome Park with great affection as well.

I was merely continuing a very good humored crack I had with some Boro fans at the Grantham Show.

I do remember Big Yackie bringing his team to Grantham in the 3rd Round of the FA Cup on the 5th January 1974. Result ---  Enough Said.  

  Actually   0-2 which in the circumstances was a very respectable result for the "Gingerbreads".

 

   Kind regards,Derek.

[Gilwell Park]

Hi.  I am not worried about Middlesbrough, where is Gilwell Park?  Then I need a spare GE tender to turn my footballer into Tottenham Hotspur.  Roger

[toboldlygo]

Hi.  I am not worried about Middlesbrough, where is Gilwell Park?  Then I need a spare GE tender to turn my footballer into Tottenham Hotspur.  Roger

 

On a container ship on the high seas, most likely..

[brushman47544]

Yep - thanks very much. I think it might be an aversion of the forum s/w to MS Explorer (any version), but I have not been able to 'reply to quote' nor 'cut' nor 'paste' since this version of RMWeb was installed.

Me too. My "trick" is to use multiquote, click the BBCode Mode button top left of the reply box. click reply to all, the quote appears, then write my own reply, then click the BBCode Mode button again to revert to normal appearance, then Post. A bit of a faff but it works - I posted this after all!

[Pint of Adnams]

Me too. My "trick" is to use multiquote, click the BBCode Mode button top left of the reply box. click reply to all, the quote appears, then write my own reply, then click the BBCode Mode button again to revert to normal appearance, then Post. A bit of a faff but it works - I posted this after all!

Thanks for that - I'll give it a whirl next time I need to.

 

I've just got back from Bure Valley Models; collected my reserved 'Serlby Hall' and 'Barnsley' that is now in stock. They are selling them at £106 each whilst stocks last, and there are not that many left... www.burevalleymodels.com

[cbeagleowner]

Gilwell Park seems to be here now. Am I right that she is a b17/3? Is the difference between that and a 2 the large cylinder on the back of the tender which Thorpe Hall for one doesn't have? 

[CUTLER2579]

Gilwell Park seems to be here now. Am I right that she is a b17/3? Is the difference between that and a 2 the large cylinder on the back of the tender which Thorpe Hall for one doesn't have? 

 

The B17's were originally split as Variation 1,2 &3 but in 1937 all three sub sections were amalgamated as B17/1.

The rough riding of the class when first introduced led to variations of springing on the B17/2 but this made little difference and so the B17/3's had further tweaking to the springs, Horn Blocks on the middle axle( instead of guides)  and variations to the lubricators.

Then in 1937 they all became B17/1's .They had all been modified as they went through works and so were all much the same by that time.

The cylinder you refer to on Gilwell Park is in fact to do with the braking system and was originally positioned underneath, right behind the buffer beam,but I assume it was moved up onto the top of the tender to aid maintenance. 

As I say this is just an assumption on my part. It was presumably necessary at times to drain water out of the cylinders that had been displaced from the air inside the cylinders.

 

So in answer to your question you are wrong as by 1948 she was a B17/1 and the Air Cylinder made no difference at all.  Merry Xmas

 

Kindest Regards,

Derek.

 

 (SAD on Xmas Day or  What)

[31A]

I've just bought another B17 (!), R3318 61646 "Gilwell Park", thanks to Hatton's famous sale.  I'd been pondering this for a while, as the model depicts the unusual arrangement with the brake reservoir on top of the tender tank; I think about five B17 tenders were like this.  Another variation, compared to my other 'Sandy' 61637 "Thorpe Hall', is that the smokebox wrapper has round headed, rather than flush, rivets depicted.

 

Also, something I've not seen before on a Hornby loco, there is now a coil spring on the bogie pivot pin!

 

However, on the down side, the running is slightly less good than other Hornby LNER 4-6-0s I've bought recently, and is accompanied by sparking from the driving wheel tyres!  This is something I've definitely not seen before on any other locos that I regularly run, and appears to be caused mainly by the driving wheel tyres being briefly able to bridge the gap between the positive and negative rails at the insulated crossings in my Peco double slips (Code 75, Insul frog type).  The back to back measurements are a good fit to my gauge, and are the same as those of my other B17s, and the wheel profiles look to be the same as well.  All the pick ups make good contact with the wheels(a couple of the tender ones needed slight adjustment).  I wondered whether there might be some difference to (or fault with) the internal electronics which might account for this?  My layout uses old fashioned DC supply.

[Ian Hargrave]

I've just bought another B17 (!), R3318 61646 "Gilwell Park", thanks to Hatton's famous sale.  I'd been pondering this for a while, as the model depicts the unusual arrangement with the brake reservoir on top of the tender tank; I think about five B17 tenders were like this.  Another variation, compared to my other 'Sandy' 61637 "Thorpe Hall', is that the smokebox wrapper has round headed, rather than flush, rivets depicted.

 

Also, something I've not seen before on a Hornby loco, there is now a coil spring on the bogie pivot pin!

 

However, on the down side, the running is slightly less good than other Hornby LNER 4-6-0s I've bought recently, and is accompanied by sparking from the driving wheel tyres!  This is something I've definitely not seen before on any other locos that I regularly run, and appears to be caused mainly by the driving wheel tyres being briefly able to bridge the gap between the positive and negative rails at the insulated crossings in my Peco double slips (Code 75, Insul frog type).  The back to back measurements are a good fit to my gauge, and are the same as those of my other B17s, and the wheel profiles look to be the same as well.  All the pick ups make good contact with the wheels(a couple of the tender ones needed slight adjustment).  I wondered whether there might be some difference to (or fault with) the internal electronics which might account for this?  My layout uses old fashioned DC supply.

Thought you might like to know that as soon as I read your post,I would remove mine from its box and test on the layout. No such problem occurs with it..DCanalogue,Peco code100 track,Gaugemaster control.Goes through pointwork forward and reverse,no arcing,sparks etc.smooth running after first hesitancy and stiffness. Suggest you check minutely that no chunks of black polyurethane packaging are left in thus gunking up the works.If you have a wheel cleaner or two put them on the rails ang give 61646 a moment or two on that with juice on. Otherwise,I would suspect a pick up glitch causing a momentary short. If in doubt,return it for another.Sorry to hear of your bother.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...However, on the down side, the running is slightly less good than other Hornby LNER 4-6-0s I've bought recently, and is accompanied by sparking from the driving wheel tyres (on insulated crossings)... 

 Practically any OO wheel can bridge the rails at insulated crossings, a real pain for DCC users which led me to remove all the elderly insulfrong points off the layout when I went DCC. (And convert them by crude butchery to live crossing, 'cause I am a mean git.) While most RP25ish wheels only do so on 0.5% of passes, there were a few with negligible coning on the tyres which were more like 20%ers. You might want to see if your B17s tyres are cylindrical rather than coned.

[Hroth]

I've just bought another B17 (!), R3318 61646 "Gilwell Park", thanks to Hatton's famous sale.  I'd been pondering this for a while, as the model depicts the unusual arrangement with the brake reservoir on top of the tender tank; I think about five B17 tenders were like this.  Another variation, compared to my other 'Sandy' 61637 "Thorpe Hall', is that the smokebox wrapper has round headed, rather than flush, rivets depicted... 

 

...However, on the down side, the running is slightly less good than other Hornby LNER 4-6-0s I've bought recently, and is accompanied by sparking from the driving wheel tyres!  ...

 

My Gilwell Park arrived from Hattons yesterday morning, and after reading your post I got it out of the packaging and gave it a run around on DC on the exercise layout (HM2000 controller, Hornby set track).  No sparking, no hesitation, a marvellously smooth runner.  With Adderley Hall on the Up line and Gilwell Park on the Down, all that could be heard was the coaching stock clattering over the points and rail joints!

 

As you haven't converted to DCC, the only "electronic" component in R3318 would be the anti-rf capacitor across the motor terminals and I can't see that having an effect on the wheels, and the only time I've had sparking from a locos driving wheels was from an old Triang Hornby "Albert Hall" and that was just good old-fashioned dirt!

[Ian Hargrave]

Hence my advice to clean the wheels.You never know what factory detritus could be hanging around.

 

I've heard of mixed metaphors but a GWR Hall and aGE B17.....now that's 'cool' (?)

[jwealleans]

I had mine out and tried it as well, immediately after reading Steve's post. No issues at all - ran beautifully. I wonder if you have a duff one, Steve.

[BrushVeteran]

Hence my advice to clean the wheels.You never know what factory detritus could be hanging around.

 

I've heard of mixed metaphors but a GWR Hall and aGE B17.....now that's 'cool' (?)

..............................could be Oxford in the 1950's!

[31A]

Sincere thanks to everybody for their investigations and advice.  I wonder whether the arcing may be less apparent on Code 100 track - is the plastic section of the crossing wider?  I think the arcing I'm getting would probably be enough to trip out a DCC system!

 

I cleaned the loco and tender wheels by applying clean white spirit (nearest vaguely suitable thing to hand!) with a paint brush then cleaning with new cotton buds; not just the running surfaces but also the rear faces of the tyres, where the pick ups bear, tender wheels as well as loco.  I was surprised by how much muck came off, onto the cotton buds.  Nevertheless the sparking persisted!

 

Then I had a closer look at the wheel tyres, and tried to photograph the driving wheels, compared with those of the older 'Thorpe Hall'.  I can't decide, but it does look to me as though there is less conicity on the tyres of the new loco - what do you think?  The new loco is the one on the left, without the brake rods fitted.  The tyres aren't really copper coloured; it's some sort of light reflection the camera's picked up (and apologies for the junk on the bench!).

 

[gr.king]

Look at the piece of bent wire that represents the rear sand pipes on your new loco. In that photo it looks as if it is not where it should be but is instead partly trapped under the drawbar. Is it causing a short intermittently?

[MikeParkin65]

I'd check the loco to tender wiring (the thin black wires) aren't trapped or chaffing especially around the rear drivers. I had a Patriot with an intermittent short which I eventually traced down to one wire being misrouted and the driver had worn through the insulation.

[31A]

Look at the piece of bent wire that represents the rear sand pipes on your new loco. In that photo it looks as if it is not where it should be but is instead partly trapped under the drawbar. Is it causing a short intermittently?

 

Thank you - good suggestion!  The wire isn't trapped under the drawbar, in fact it is cranked to run longitudinally and then upwards and is glued into a hole in the keeper plate, beside the drawbar pin screw.  However I checked the wires which represent the sand pipes for each of the driving wheels, as they look as though they may be able to touch the flanges; I bent some of them so that they definitely can't but even if they did, they're independent on each side and glued into the plastic keeper plate, hence 'dead'.  Sadly, the arcing continues!

 

I'd check the loco to tender wiring (the thin black wires) aren't trapped or chaffing especially around the rear drivers. I had a Patriot with an intermittent short which I eventually traced down to one wire being misrouted and the driver had worn through the insulation.

 

 

Thanks Mike, have had a look at that but the wiring all looks to be in good condition and where it should be.

 

I'm increasingly coming to the opinion that the wheel profile is slightly different as the sparks definitely come from the tyres as they pass over the dead frogs in the double slips, as if they are bridging the gap between the positive and negative rails.  This doesn't happen with my older B17s, on indeed any other locos that I run on this layout!

 

On the plus side, as well as the difference in smokeboxes, I've realised that 61646 is modelled with a Dia 100A boiler (making it a B17/6), whereas 61637 has the original type - the washout plugs / access holes in the firebox are different.

[Hroth]

I've heard of mixed metaphors but a GWR Hall and aGE B17.....now that's 'cool' (?)

Ha!

 

Wait until the B12 comes out - I'll run that around with "British Monarch".......

[Colin]

I don't know if this is of any interest, but here's one I made earlier - 61672 "West Ham United" depicted in the last few weeks of its life complete with electrification flashes (although in the alternative universe of my layout, some of the B17s soldiered on into 1962). All it needs now is some weathering. 
I found the Westinghouse pump in my scrap box, it's an old Crownline part.
I would be grateful if someone could tell me if I have positioned it more or less correctly - I had to work from front three-quarter views, which didn't give a very clear indication. Also, were the pumps always black in BR days?

[BrushVeteran]

I don't know if this is of any interest, but here's one I made earlier - 61672 "West Ham United" depicted in the last few weeks of its life complete with electrification flashes (although in the alternative universe of my layout, some of the B17s soldiered on into 1962). All it needs now is some weathering. 

I found the Westinghouse pump in my scrap box, it's an old Crownline part.

I would be grateful if someone could tell me if I have positioned it more or less correctly - I had to work from front three-quarter views, which didn't give a very clear indication. Also, were the pumps always black in BR days?

I have one of these to do as well so if mine turns out as good as this I shall be very pleased.

[31A]

I don't know if this is of any interest, but here's one I made earlier - 61672 "West Ham United" depicted in the last few weeks of its life complete with electrification flashes (although in the alternative universe of my layout, some of the B17s soldiered on into 1962). All it needs now is some weathering. 

I found the Westinghouse pump in my scrap box, it's an old Crownline part.

I would be grateful if someone could tell me if I have positioned it more or less correctly - I had to work from front three-quarter views, which didn't give a very clear indication. Also, were the pumps always black in BR days?

 

Looks good to me, Colin!

 

I have one of these to do as well so if mine turns out as good as this I shall be very pleased.

 

 

On my list of things to do as well, although I also have more ambitious plans involving a Crownlike B2 conversion kit!