Ron Heggs Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 I've got a similar though slightly smaller wiring problem to solve with gas lamps for green Ayre. They were suspended ona piece of gas pipe from a junction bos so I planned to use a piece of small diameter brass tube with enammelled wire through the cenre to give me the current path. Is enammelled wire reliable in such circumstances. I won't be able to paint the inside of my tube and will just have to be very careful inserting it. Jamie Hi, Jamie Not had any problems with enamelled wire so far. Just try to make sure that there are no internal sharp edges, etc. on the tube when you're threading the wire Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil H Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hi Ron, Iam a new member Jan / 2014. What a model, iam from Manchester and know the station well, now in my 60s.You must be classed as a master model maker. Have you thought of having it made in kit form and then sold to us the railway modellers. I would put my order in now. Regards Phil H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted January 29, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2014 Ron, I don't think I'd mount your resistors inside your brass box, they will probably heat up the box, and then the heat will pass to your styrene and it might go a bit glupy over time... Also I would have thought that your resistors would be too big to go in it unless you are using surface mount ones... Could you not have a common resistor on the return leg? I suppose it might have to be a high wattage one (or as we used to say in my last place 'a fat resistor') Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hi Ron, Iam a new member Jan / 2014. What a model, iam from Manchester and know the station well, now in my 60s.You must be classed as a master model maker. Have you thought of having it made in kit form and then sold to us the railway modellers. I would put my order in now. Good idea, but most of us wouldn't be able to afford the kit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted January 29, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Hi, Jamie Not had any problems with enamelled wire so far. Just try to make sure that there are no internal sharp edges, etc. on the tube when you're threading the wire Cheers Ron Thanks for that Ron. I'm busy making the prototype gaslight. I'll post some pictures on my Lancaster thread when I've made one up. I was intending to deburr the ends of the tube by opening them out with a needle file to round them off a bit. I've only got 20 to do. Jamie Edited January 29, 2014 by jamie92208 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Ron, I don't think I'd mount your resistors inside your brass box, they will probably heat up the box, and then the heat will pass to your styrene and it might go a bit glupy over time... Also I would have thought that your resistors would be too big to go in it unless you are using surface mount ones... Could you not have a common resistor on the return leg? I suppose it might have to be a high wattage one (or as we used to say in my last place 'a fat resistor') Andy G Hi, Andy Yes, a large common resistor seems to be most practical solution probably rated at about 1W. With 3 LEDs permanently lit and two others on together on odd occasions, that's five running in parallel, so 220 ohms 10% should be OK for 12v DC supply, and mounted under the baseboard along with the supply and switching connectors Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hi Ron, Iam a new member Jan / 2014. What a model, iam from Manchester and know the station well, now in my 60s.You must be classed as a master model maker. Have you thought of having it made in kit form and then sold to us the railway modellers. I would put my order in now. Regards Phil H. Hi, Phil Another Mancunian ? Having invested almost 10 years in scratchbuilding this model, and a further ?? years to go, taking time out to create kits of the structures would not be a reasonably good use of my time. I would be quite happy to assist someone else in such a venture, but I don't think that there would be much in the way of purchases for such unique structural kits - low demand>high prices Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 A few of the 2 & 3 aspect signal face & back plates, drawn and cut today - Lamp shields/hoods tomorrow 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Re-designed West Gantry showing the revised access walkway/wiriing duct - 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2014 Ron, As an alternative to a wiring box frame, could you laminate alternate brass and plastic sheet in a vertical plane, to provide the necessary number of feeds ? Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Spot on Ozzy Yes. All the theatre indicators use enamelled wire, and the brass duct will act as the common return, that just leaves the 15 LED wires to accommodate, 7 to the left and 8 to the right - decision will be made on the day. Just a quick note - the inside of the duct will be painted to ensure there is no chance of a closed circuit condition occurring Cheers Ron Hello Ron, thanks for the reply. After you have tested the circuits have thought about filling the "trough" with epoxy or a number of coats of varnish / paint so that the wires can't move. The only down side that I can see is if you have to replace any of the wires / LEDs. Glad to see you back in action, OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Ron, As an alternative to a wiring box frame, could you laminate alternate brass and plastic sheet in a vertical plane, to provide the necessary number of feeds ? Stu Hi, Stu Nice idea Although I couldn't contemplate soldering all the theatre indicator wires (60) in lieu of their enamelled wires to the brass strips, it would make the feeds to the LEDs much neater Just need to acquire some 1mm wide brass strip or could use two/three strands of 7/0.2 instead with 10 thou styrene laminations Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hello Ron, thanks for the reply. After you have tested the circuits have thought about filling the "trough" with epoxy or a number of coats of varnish / paint so that the wires can't move. The only down side that I can see is if you have to replace any of the wires / LEDs. Glad to see you back in action, OzzyO. Hi, Ozzy There would be no problem with 'fixing' the theatre indicator wires in place A thought with the feeds to the LEDs, as per Stu's suggestion of brass/styrene laminated feeds in lieu wires, was to provide sub-miniature socket/plugs as part of each of the signals' assemblies. This would enable easy access if there were any future problems with the LEDs Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hit the Amazon - European ''Free Trade Barrier'' again Amazon.ES don't have what I need. Log onto Amazon.CO.UK and buy the items from them. So far so good Items are being dispatched FREE from Germany Sorry can't be delivered to Spain, but can deliver FREE to the UK Answer - Deliver them to my daughter in the UK, and get her to post them on to me in Spain (postage under £2) Delivery time 3-18 days to the UK + 3-7 days from the UK to Spain Could buy them from Amazon.COM for delivery to Spain, but that would incur extra shipping costs and customs duties Was wondering if I could buy them from Amazon.DE. But is it worth all the hassle? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Silly question, have you thought of using a phone charger to power the LEDs? After all, they usually provide about 5.5 volts (ish). It would prevent the overbright lights you normally get on model railways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hello Ron, my second thought. Could you use double sided copper clad etched (cut out on your new M/C) to give you all of the power feeds to the signals? It would be thinner than the brass section and you would then have the drawing for all of the circuits. You could then have the wiring for the signals on one side and the wiring for the indicators on the other. This could help with the feeds one set coming the left and one coming from the right. To cover the top you would only need a thin strip of plasicard. It's just an idea for you, OzzyO. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Silly question, have you thought of using a phone charger to power the LEDs? After all, they usually provide about 5.5 volts (ish). It would prevent the overbright lights you normally get on model railways. Hi, Thanks for your suggestion and comments All the signals are designed to run off a dedicated 12v DC regulated and smoothed supply (There is a second standby supply, just in case of inevitable failure). Any overbrightness will be overcome by increasing the relevant resistor value. The resistor values are chosen to achieve realistic lighting levels and longevity for the LEDs. The general railway room lighting is sufficient for viewing, but not for modelling. I prefer much higher levels for detail modelling purposes Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Hello Ron, my second thought. Could you use double sided copper clad etched (cut out on your new M/C) to give you all of the power feeds to the signals? It would be thinner than the brass section and you would then have the drawing for all of the circuits. You could then have the wiring for the signals on one side and the wiring for the indicators on the other. This could help with the feeds one set coming the left and one coming from the right. To cover the top you would only need a thin strip of plasicard. It's just an idea for you, OzzyO. Hi, Ozzy Under normal circumstances that would be a good idea, but with 60 lines for the indicators, say 30 from each side, and 15 (7+8 ) for the signals, that still means at least two double sided pcbs stacked face to face plus allowance for the surface soldering and insulation. The wiring to the indicators from the hidden circuits would still need to be brought out to the top Cheers Ron Edited January 30, 2014 by Ron Heggs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Have just measured the indicator wire cross-section - 10 wires < 1mm2 So three double indicators i.e. six indicators - 60 wires < 6mm2, and if fed from left and right 30+30, that's only 3mm2 That leaves up to 10mm2 for the 7+8 LED wires - no problem (the walkway/duct is a max of 13mm wide and 1mm deep internally) Will have to build a test piece Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil H Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hi Ron. I might be thinking of the topic, as in led as to light omitting diode, if so have you thought of fibre optics and logic switching save a lot of time and money if iam on the right lines. Regards Phil H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil H Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hi Horsetan. You could be right there. Phil H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Hi Ron. I might be thinking of the topic, as in led as to light omitting diode, if so have you thought of fibre optics and logic switching save a lot of time and money if iam on the right lines. Regards Phil H. Hi, Phil This subject was covered back in November/December last year (pages 71-73). Whilst it was possible the real problem is the bending radius and bundle sizes for the fibres in the locations which are required on these particular structures Ron Edited January 30, 2014 by Ron Heggs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 This test build is to check out the best way to construct, and provide supplies and enable future maintenance of the signals and indicators on the two gantires - Some pictures of the first stage of the test build - The test build shunt signal plugged into a dual socket - the double dual socket will feed a 3 aspect signal The sockets are sections of female connectors used for interconnecting LED strip lighting - they are supplied as strips of four male/male or male/female - socket/plug pitch is 2.54mm (0.1 inches) The connections will be made on the underside, and the over long prongs snipped off The connectors were selected due to their small size and their ability to accept the LED leads easily Waiting now on delivery of Red/Yellow/Green LEDs, resistors and connectors 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Ron, Similar items sold via RS http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/pcb-pin-socket-strips/2677438/ If you want some, they are only just down the road from work. Could post them out to you or to your personal family delivery service! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Ron, Similar items sold via RS http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/pcb-pin-socket-strips/2677438/ If you want some, they are only just down the road from work. Could post them out to you or to your personal family delivery service! Dave Hi, Dave Thanks - Found them on ES.RS-ONLINE.COM (RS Spanish Site), also a slightly shorter leg length version, and a 32 length strip as well as the 20 length strip Never thought to look there even though I have an account with them Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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