Retaining wall dilemma

[tractionman]

I've been looking for too long now at the options open for creating a retaining wall to run along the rear of my small OO c.1979 TMD layout - the scenic board is only a foot deep (and four foot long), and I wish to use a retaining wall as a full-length backdrop to the depot.

 

I am torn between using embossed plastic walling sheets (or the Internatonal Models retaining walls) and printed paper products such as Scalescenes.

 

The embossed option means painting and weathering, but I like the texture the sheets have, which is perhaps important given how closely they will be seen from the viewing side of the board - but the International Models product looks a tad overscale in its representation of bricks/blocks, and painting / weathering Wills sheets effectively is quite a challenge for a novice like me!

 

So the paper sheets of Scalescenes looks like a good option (eg. the Low Relief Arches), but I wonder whether they might look, well, a bit flat?! The colours and effects do look fantastic, and having blue bricks certainly appeals for what I have in mind.

 

What are folks thoughts on this issue? And how expensive is it to get the PDFs printed at a copy shop, as I don't have access to a colour printer.

 

many thanks,

 

Keith

[kiwinewt]

Why not do the scalescenes ones now, then when your budget/skills allow upgrade?

[t-b-g]

In his books and articles, the late Rev. Peter Denny described how he used printed building papers (Merco in his case!) but created some texture and relief by gently scribing along the long horizontal mortar lines. Having seen his buildings "in the flesh" it is remarkably effective and the eye is somehow fooled into not looking for the tiny vertical mortar lines. Might be worth an experiment. I would think that it would work best if the printed paper was first stuck to a meterial with a bit of "give" such as card, rather than something solid like plastic.

[Stubby47]

Keith,

 

Have you considered asking at your local college's / secondary school print dept how much they would charge for printing ? Or the local library ? They might well be cheaper than a commercial printers.

 

HTH

 

Stu

[Chubber]

Keith, have a look here, at post 10 http://www.rmweb.co....harbour-office/

 

I have printed on 140gm/m2 watercolour paper, in an art shop it would be called 'NOT' paper. It gives a small amount of texture and should go through an average printer with no problem, I have an cheapy Epson SX215.

 

Now have a look at http://www.rmweb.co....ntry-pub-model/

 

I have incised the hanging tile paper with a blunt letter opener to give the horizontal lines [and then incised the vertical brick lines with a 2mm screw driver, although I can;t see anyone doing that for the length of a retaining wall!]

 

Then scroll down through this thread http://www.rmweb.co....elsh-warehouse/

 

I have impressed random areas of the walls with a blunt knife, the corner of a steel ruler, cut some small areas out with a sharp knife etc to give the texture some 'life'.

 

By a combination of these effects at a few key areas the viewer will believe that all the wall is textured and there is no need for Scalescenes papers to look flat.

 

 

Finally, there is a 'right way up' to consider, in order to gain the maximum realism value from the print-out.

 

 

 

I hope these tips will give you some more confidence to use texture papers instead of that nasty old plastic which is so bad for the planet and uses up lots of Scottish Laughing Water tokens!

 

Best wishes,

 

Doug

[Guest jim s-w]

Hiya

 

The problem you have when comparing the 2 approaches on a forum such as this is that anything posted is 2D. Thus printed sheets look better here than in real life (my opinion).

 

As your plank is only 1 foot deep you can really go to town on things like texture and relief. (not that I advocate dumbing down big layouts) so I would go for plasticard.

 

 

I would ask though - is a small depot in a place that would require a retaining wall prototypical? Wouldnt they just site it somewhere cheaper?

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Karhedron]

Ratio do plastic retaining walls. The brickwork seems a bit finer than the International Models version.

 

 

Personally I prefer plastic kits to anything printed. The relief looks better, even overscale, than a printed representation. Plus plastic is not prone to warping if it gets a bit damp.

[tractionman]

Thanks very much all for your comments and advice – much appreciated.

 

For the small outlay involved for a Scalescenes PDF I think I’ll give it a go – and good suggestion Stu to go for potentially cheaper printing options, and Doug’s use too of 140gm/m2 watercolour paper to get texture – I’ll look into this. Art/craft shops are good places to get modelling supplies I’ve found, and often quite cheap.

 

I take your point, Jim, about having a TMD hard-up by a retaining wall (I like the look of yours, by the way!), but in a cramped urban area it’s probably justified? I have also thought about having a steep grassy embankment behind instead, or cutting up Metcalfe industrial buildings to make them low relief – all in all, more indecision on my part!

 

Since already I have a few sheets of Wills bricks I may as well give the weathering/mortaring a go with my old Humbrols and see what it looks like, while also experimenting with the Scalescenes (on watercolour paper), too – perhaps I’ll put up the results here in due course to see what folks think!

 

Thanks again,

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

[Oldddudders]

from a recent set linked here on RMWeb, shows the site of the former LBSCR engine shed at West Croydon, which as can be seen certainly had a retaining wall behind it, being in a shallow cutting. When the turntable was installed the retaining wall had to be dug futher into the bank, so had a "46' turntable radius" curve in it, and this is just visible about two-thirds of the way along the left wall here. This curve was still very visible in the 70s when I used the station daily, maybe still is.

[tractionman]

Thanks for the Croydon example, Ian - I too had a think about TMD/MPDs hemmed in by banks or walls last night, and yes - of course, I should have thought, there's Leicester and Buxton, both backed by steep grassy banks (and some walling).

 

There are some good shots of Buxton in the 1980s/1990s on the old RM forum that I spotted on a previous search, and the latest '70s spotting days book for the Midlands shows Leicester TMD in the late 1970s - a place I visited as a spotty 'spotting teenager back in the early '80s!

 

So yes, the prototypes for what I have in mind are out there, and Buxton has (or had?) just a two-road shed-building, which is what I have built too, plus it's in the right Midlands location for my locos... think I am getting there! A mix of grassy bank and walling seems to fit the bill.

 

cheers,

 

Keith

[Black Sheep]

Ratio do plastic retaining walls. The brickwork seems a bit finer than the International Models version.

 

 

Personally I prefer plastic kits to anything printed. The relief looks better, even overscale, than a printed representation. Plus plastic is not prone to warping if it gets a bit damp.

 

 

While I am a fan of the plastic kit approach (mainly due to it being easier to paint and weather) and mean no disrespect the above wall doesn't look quite correct to me as each join between sheets gives a wider pillar between arches which wouldn't be the case on the real thing, ideally cutting some of the material away to make each pillar the same width as the ones mid sheet should perhaps be considered to get a uniform look along a long section?

 

 

[Ian Smeeton]

Why not build a buttress to hide the join & give a little extra relief

 

( Said the Atress to the Bishop)

 

Sorry, it's late, and the mind wanders.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Ozzzy]

It depends what look you want scalescenes will give a satisfactory look altough expensive embossed wallling sheet do look alot better

[Campaman]

Expensive embossed sheet may look better if you have the skill and tools to make it so. Printed sheets are far easier to get reasonable results from normal viewing distances.

 

My opinion only.

[norseman]

In my opinion it depends upon what material you use on your other structures. I think consistency is important to give a realistic look.

 

As much as I find embossed plastic sheets realistic and fine, I made a decision when building my own layout to use card and printed brick paper. Basically because I found the idea of scratchbuilding from card less daunting than plastic, plus in my case it has turned out much cheaper.

[Xerces Fobe2]

I have used various types of polystyrene ready made walls that you can quite often pick up at railways Shows. The good news is they have depth however they are very fragile and you can damage them very easily, however if you glue the back of them to cardboard they are fine once on the layout . Below is a photo of 2 of these walls on my layout.

 

 

Xerces Fobe

[Mucky Duck]

There is another option… embossed brick card from Howard Scenics.

See posts 10-11