RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 24, 2015 Hello all, after looking through my Hall photo I came across this one showing the second boiler mount in about the same position as the cover plate on 6869, so boiler No. C6204 could be a Hall boiler? Copy of hall4929 1963.jpg OzzyO. It could well have been on a 'Hall' at some time Oz - boilers of course went a very different route in works from the engine part and when that bit was ready to receive a boiler it simply got the next suitable one out of the boiler shop. Thus, as an interesting example, you could see 28XX engines with inside steam pipes carrying boilers with blanking pieces where they had previously been used on an engine with outside steam pipes. similarly what had been the last update of a boiler could be replaced by one which wasn't up to that standard (unless it had been upgraded as it went through works). It also explains why for some of the tank engine classes you can find an engine which had top feed when new not having it after a general repair, and vice versa - all down to boilers going through works at a different pace from the engine part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Hello all, starting work on the spacers, the spacers laid out in their approx. positions. S3 & S5 will be modified when their in the frames and S4 will not be used. Checking that they all fit in place. Tack soldered in position using 188Deg. S1 is not fitted just yet. From the outside after cleaning the excess off. I don't tend to clean off the tags on spacers if they are on the tabs as these will come off when I take the tabs back to the frames. Getting ready to fit the second frame in place using one of my alignment jigs. The second frame in place using my alignment jig and two dummy axles. The frames all soldered up and the footplate brackets soldered in place, most of these will have the centres removed later on. The same from above rear, it looks like the frames are bent in this photo but their not honest. S3 & S5 modified. The next jobs for today are making up the coupling rods, then starting on the horn guides Etc. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Hi OzzyO How Come you have left the 1st and 3rd axles fixed? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
0_gauge_novice Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Hi OzzyO How Come you have left the 1st and 3rd axles fixed? Pete Sorry for poping in, he will install the middle pair of hornblocks with the other two fixed and then fit also the hornblocks to the other axle. Standard practice for getting the right height etc. Ozzyo...correct me if I am wrong. Cheers Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Sorry for poping in, he will install the middle pair of hornblocks with the other two fixed and then fit also the hornblocks to the other axle. Standard practice for getting the right height etc. Ozzyo...correct me if I am wrong. Cheers Andreas Your not wrong. Photos to follow. OzzyO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 Hello all, as I mentioned in my last main post I was going to do the coupling rods and use them to check the wheel centres. As they come from the etched sheet, unfortunately these have a very large etch cusp on them so cleaning them up will take a bit of time. All of them soldered together and in place on my frame jig that had been set up using the axle holes. The rods were spot on well done M.M. who drew the art work. Getting the front horns ready for fitting, these need a bit cutting out of them to clear the brackets for the brake lever. The half etched square is where the bracket fits on the frames. Checking the hight of the front of the frames after the horns have been fitted,to hold the frames in place I use a 1Lb weight. All of the horns fitted in place, all of the axleboxs will be removed and checked for movement and any tight spots sorted out along with any tags that need sorting out. What to do today? Fit any parts that can't be fitted after the frame over-lays go on and a clean up. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Hello all, this could be a bit of a long one so get a brew. Horn blocks out again and safety chain attachments added. A close up of the attachments. Getting ready to fit the retaining bars to the horn guides. and in close up. Some of the springs before grit blasting. After grit blasting. The front springs along with the brake arm brackets. and removed from there sprue's The rear springs in place for this I used 188Deg. solder. The brake arm brackets in place. Along with the brake arm, this was a bit short to fit in the brackets so I had drilled them out to 2.5mm and added some brass tube. They also needed a small amount removing from the face that the spring casting fits in front of. The front springs in place along with the round front strengthening bar. The main parts for the cylinders laid out. This is one area the does require a bit of work doing to it, as four holes need opening out and four need reducing. Along with the slots for the slide-bars. All of the holes drilled out ready for some parts to be fitted, I've bent the rear of the cylinders to shape before fitting the reducing rings for the valve covers, it's just makes it easer to bend them to shape when the front and rears are still just flat bits of N/S. The reducing rings in place in the rear of the cylinders, the nearest one having been filed flat to the face. I prefer to do it this way rather that try to turn them down to the correct step as my lathe only has 0.5mm steps on the main carriage handle and I've not got around to making a micrometer stop for it yet. OzzyO. PS. good to see some of you at Cleck. on Sat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I like the idea of reducing rings OzzyO, I could have done with them on my cylinder frame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Isn't the whole point of using hornguides that you can drop the wheelsets out? Just like on the real thing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Isn't the whole point of using hornguides that you can drop the wheelsets out? Just like on the real thing? It is a truth universally acknowledged that not everyone thinks like you, Bill! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Isn't the whole point of using hornguides that you can drop the wheelsets out? Just like on the real thing? I thought the whole point of using horn guides was to help keep the wheels on the rails by accommodating for any humps and dips in the track. Bill un-screw six screws and the wheels come out. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I thought the whole point of using horn guides was to help keep the wheels on the rails by accommodating for any humps and dips in the track. Bill un-screw six screws and the wheels come out. OzzyO. I can see how you could take 6 wheels OFF with 6 screws but not three wheel sets OUT as Bill was presumably meaning - or am I missing something too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I thought the whole point of using horn guides was to help keep the wheels on the rails by accommodating for any humps and dips in the track. That's the theory, but the way it's often implemented, especially in 7mm, I sometimes wonder. Bill un-screw six screws and the wheels come out. Just like a car wheel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 I can see how you could take 6 wheels OFF with 6 screws but not three wheel sets OUT as Bill was presumably meaning - or am I missing something too? I don't understand this fascination with wanting to drop out the full wheel sets. One of my builds going back a number of years has now run in excess of a hundred real miles and we've never had to drop the wheel sets, just a bit of oil every now and again. That's the theory, but the way it's often implemented, especially in 7mm, I sometimes wonder. Just like a car wheel? Just like in 4mm as well. Just like a car wheel. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 ....Just like in 4mm as well. Just like a car wheel. ...but without jacking it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Hello all, for some reason work is progressing slowly, the front of the cylinders folded down and the reducing rings fitted, along with the cylinder rears and the bottom slide-bar. Cleaning out the slots in the cylinder covers took a bit of time but it is well worth taking your time over this. and from below. All of the slide-bars now fitted. From the front you can see a bit of the bars sticking out, I'd rather have it this way than only just long enough. Testing the cross-heads for fit, these only need a very small amount of fettling to get them running smoothly. The front cylinder covers, I was not that happy with the marked position for the pressure relief valves so after checking the drawing it worked out that they are approx. 4.5mm from the centre line, the new position was marked out and the old one drilled out to 1.6mm and plugged with some 1/16" N/S. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Hello all, just a quick update. When fitting the cylinders into the slots in the frames I found out the slots were too wide (I did think this when I looked at them). So to keep them central in the slots I fitted some scrap 12 thou brass to the front and rear outside faces only. The rear valve covers are in the correct orientation in having the stuffing box covers sloping in towards the inside, I may have been better of having them the other way around looking at the R/H one. I also added some small bits of 2mm angle brass to the top face of the main cylinder body, this is to keep the cylinders central to the frames, the cylinders now have most of the main castings in place. I'll also cut the 12 thou brass off to match the width of the frames. Checking the length of the piston rod. On the rod you can see two marks, the green one is the stuffing box when the cross-head is in line with the end of the slide-bars and the red one is the inside of the same. The cylinder wrappers formed to shape. Before doing this I annealed them. The cylinder wrappers in place, I've still to fit the following. A length of 2mm square brass to the inside top edge of the wrappers, the drain cock frames and the drain cocks. The wrapper only have two holes in them so I'll have to drill one more for the valve drain cocks. As seems to be normal with me I always seem to cut myself when building a loco kit. This is what I did yesterday while forming the wrappers to shape, nice!!!!!!! One job that I've still to do is check my photos for the position of any oil pots on the top slide-bars. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I do like your builds Paul, detailed and never uninteresting, no matter what loco it is. Plus the injuries add a bit of gore.......LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 That fingernail needs trimming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibateg Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 or reshaping more elegantly... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 That's only a little cut, I thought you lot up north were tough . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendy1 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 OzzyO great post and I love the detailed descriptions of what you are doing. One thing that puzzled me though was the picture showing the cylinders from behind ( the first picture). I was expecting that the orientation of the cylinder assemblies would be symmetrical about the middle but the main cylinder block on the left hand side when looking from behind is not a mirror image of the one on the right hand side. I looked up a photo of a grange prototype(attached -zoom in to the cylinder) and it does look like there is something wrong at the back of the left hand cylinder where the piston rod enters - this should be orientated bottom left to top right??? ie comparing left and right cylinder blocks /.....\ and not \.....\ Does that make sense or did the prototype vary in the orientation? Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 That fingernail needs trimming. It's one of the penalties of working with metal and not paper!!!! That's only a little cut, I thought you lot up north were tough . That was the exit wound!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 .....I was expecting that the orientation of the cylinder assemblies would be symmetrical about the middle but the main cylinder block on the left hand side when looking from behind is not a mirror image of the one on the right hand side. I looked up a photo of a grange prototype(attached -zoom in to the cylinder) and it does look like there is something wrong at the back of the left hand cylinder where the piston rod enters - this should be orientated bottom left to top right??? ie comparing left and right cylinder blocks /.....\ and not \.....\..... There doesn't appear anything wrong with the photo of 6861. There is the main piston rod below, and - slanted to the inside - is the valve rod. OzzyO's assembly is the same as that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 OzzyO great post and I love the detailed descriptions of what you are doing. One thing that puzzled me though was the picture showing the cylinders from behind ( the first picture). I was expecting that the orientation of the cylinder assemblies would be symmetrical about the middle but the main cylinder block on the left hand side when looking from behind is not a mirror image of the one on the right hand side. I looked up a photo of a grange prototype(attached -zoom in to the cylinder) and it does look like there is something wrong at the back of the left hand cylinder where the piston rod enters - this should be orientated bottom left to top right??? ie comparing left and right cylinder blocks /.....\ and not \.....\ Does that make sense or did the prototype vary in the orientation? Tony Hello Tony, thanks for your post. You are right in that the stuffing box should slope down to the outside on the L/H cylinder, if I'd spotted this a bit earlier I could have done something about it by cutting it off and repositioning it. To do it now could cause more problems than it would solve. The way that I'd do it is something like this. 1] drill out the hole to 2.5mm. 2] cut of the stuffing box using a piercing saw. 3] clean up both matting faces 4] fit a length of 2.5mm brass tube in to the main body. 5] fit the stuffing box in place. 6] Open the brass tube out to 2.1mm. Thanks for pointing this out, I'll keep a better look-out for this on other kits. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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