bike2steam Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Yep considering that many traders, at shows, do not accept credit cards, by just taking a credit card, as well as enough change for entry, is a good way of making sure you don't spend too much . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torkardlane Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I've always preferred cash but if small traders are forced to have machines to except cards costs will rise on the stuff they sell. The few times I used a card at shows they charged a small fee which would be better than price rises all round. On the plus side, if you use a credit card its insured till you get home "normally" so if you drop it in the car park you can claim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 But how would you give a relative a gift for birthday/xmas if you can't send a cheque? Cash? The Bank wants to reduce cash but getting rid of cheques might ensure that there is more cash in circulation. Bring out the £50's! Postal Orders? - they used to be fashionable and Grannie's favourite method of sending cash through the post. I don't think it is just the banks who are driving the change to electronic means of payment, I think there is a general push in the direction by all governments. It is all about financial control and traceability. They also have the general intentions of removing cash as it is the mainstay of a sub economy. £000s are lost to the Exchequer every year due to the inability to trace cash within the economy. Replacing cash with a card or telephone system is already trialed and I would expect to see within a decade its use throughout the country. But I still don't like the idea of loosing cheques. When I think about it, the only time I need cash is to make purchases at model railway shows ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Hi, on talking to a certain trader who does most shows the length of the country, he tells me that there's been an upsurge of cash transactions in the past six months, He thinks it could be that people are watching what they spend on credit and are taking a certain amount of cash and when that's spent that's it, unlike a credit card!!!!! Takings are up on previous years but so too are the number of cheques, maybe that's the standby when the cash runs out, instead of the 'card'!. I've looked into hiring an electronic card machine to do just one EMGS members day, and we've decided the cost is just not worth it, so it's cheques or cash at the EMGS members day on the 19th February. I have been asked but I don't intend to start doing shows again, other retailers are stocking most of our products anyway and for all the mail or phone enquiries we get again it's not worth buying a card machine, we are afterall just the manufacturer, it's cheques only for mail order but when the new website goes live it will have card facilities. One thing no-one has mentioned yet is the Postal Order, I've had a few over the past years for mail order and these seem to be as good as cash. I suppose it's a bother having to go the the post office, if you still have one, but for me I've got to go to post the parcel anyway and I can cash the PO instantly. Regards, Dave. Lanarkshire Models & Supplies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 No one complained, not even the trades unions, about wages being paid into the bank each month in place of a pay packet every week. Placing the money you had worked for into the hands of banks so they could use it and charge you interest? Workers must have been away with the fairies when that happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ian Posted February 8, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2011 One thing no-one has mentioned yet is the Postal Order, I've had a few over the past years for mail order and these seem to be as good as cash. I suppose it's a bother having to go the the post office, if you still have one, but for me I've got to go to post the parcel anyway and I can cash the PO instantly. And it only costs you 10% of the face value to get one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 it's cheques only for mail order but when the new website goes live it will have card facilities. One thing no-one has mentioned yet is the Postal Order, I've had a few over the past years for mail order and these seem to be as good as cash. I suppose it's a bother having to go the the post office, if you still have one, but for me I've got to go to post the parcel anyway and I can cash the PO instantly. Well good luck with the website - if you intend doing PayPal then I'll give this a visit - pure plastic, no thanks. Isn't a crossed Postal Order the equivalent of a cheque as well ? Due to be removed in 2018 ? In France, the discussion of making the cheque an obsolete financial instrument is underway, however the banks are stuffed to a certain extent ... writing and cashing cheques (at a national level) do not carry processing charges - these are borne by the banks ( a cost to them, that is not directly rebilled back) I pay an annual premium for having a plastic card, the traders I deal with pay a monthly charge for card readers and also a %age on sales generated When I propose to a trader a discount if I pay cash or cheque, this is nearly always accepted - most traders would willingly put a sign in the window stating a discount if paying cash but they cannot do so, because of contracting arrangements with the credit card companies - the take is often that customers are in part attracted into the shop because the shop accepts plastic. My bank manager has already asked me what I thought of being charged for cheques - my reply was that's OK, but then I expect that the plastic cards I have would incur no direct costs ... not possible was the reply, built-in insurance etc... My retort was, the day you charge me for a cheque is the day I close down all my accounts with you... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ian Posted February 8, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2011 When I propose to a trader a discount if I pay cash or cheque, this is nearly always accepted In the UK you are not allowed to offer a discount for cash - trading standards would be after you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 dilbert, said: When I propose to a trader a discount if I pay cash or cheque, this is nearly always accepted. Ian replied - In the UK you are not allowed to offer a discount for cash - trading standards would be after you. TIC - Which is probably why dilbert proposes the discount, unless of course the trader is also not allowed to accept the discount!!! PS - What's the difference between a discount and an item offered at a sale (reduced) price? Just wondering as I sup a nice 'Brains' 'Firkin Great' pint.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ian Posted February 8, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2011 An item offered at a sale price iis available to anyone who wishes to buy it. Offering a discount for cash discriminates against people wishing to pay by other means which is, in these enlightened times, not acceptable. Dilbert is in France where the laws are, no doubt, different. But in the UK trading standards would be likely to try a 'sting' operation if they had evidence that a trader was offering discounts for cash. It is, however, OK to haggle over a price provided that the means of payment is not involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted February 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2011 So how come the DVLA are allowed to charge £2.50 MORE for using your credit card? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 But in the UK trading standards would be likely to try a 'sting' operation if they had evidence that a trader was offering discounts for cash. I think my use of the word 'discount'' is not correct - I propose a price whereby the transaction can be done immediately without the financial intervention of a 3rd party. I note also that in the UK, some traders apply a %age uplift on price when using PayPal... to be honest this is generally something that is made known upfront - however they appear not to accept credit cards as a means of payment... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 In UK law a discount for cash is not illegal, as the charges involved in accepting other means of payment may charge more. Trading standards just insist that the means of payment and the costs are known to the buyer before the completion of the sale. The same applies to surcharges for cheques, credit cards etc, which are closely regulated, and again must be made clear before completion, and includes service charges and tips. The Price asked for any item is open to the seller to set out, and they may lower the price to whatever level they care to charge, but must be open and above board, and must comply with all relevant taxation regulations. What is problematic is setting the price, completion, and then offering further discounts or surcharges. This is the area that Trading Standards are involved with mainly in the building and repair trades, where other issues like Income tax may be involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted February 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2011 Bob Diamond of Barclays suggests it's time to stop bashing the banks. Au contraire, Bob! Him & his like sadly underestimate the frustration the general public has with banks and their failure to recognise the need to provide a public service. If the cheque system is going to be withdrawn, a viable replacement needs to be in place and proven well before 2018. Never a truer comment there Mark. Now I hear that the bosses are whinging and furious about George Osborne's additional bank profits tax. It used to be journalists and estate agents that were held in the nation's lowest esteem...not any more..... but the bank bosses and their investment banker cronies still continue taking the **** and their bonuses. The running of the clearing side isn't much better. Ads telling us that they now are the 'friendliest' bank...to whom?....certainly not their customers. I won't go into the recent time when I wanted to withdraw £5000 cash of my own money to buy a car and they said that I couldn't have it because the ID required (my passport) was invalid because it was one week out of date, despite having credit cards, domestic bills etc....Bah..I'll stop my rant now!...and when I hear Angela Knight the patronising spokeswoman of the clearing banks defending the decision of scrapping the cheque. When pressed by John Humphries a while ago that the replacement would have to be a paper based system and that we had one already (the cheque) so why replace it she evaded every aspect of the question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I won't go into the recent time when I wanted to withdraw £5000 cash of my own money to buy a car and they said that I couldn't have it because the ID required (my passport) was invalid because it was one week out of date, despite having credit cards, domestic bills etc....Bah..I'll stop my rant Though you should target the rant at the people responsible. That is not the bank it is the government (GB as it happens) for implementing the law* on such transactions. The law was more to do with preventing or identifying transactions of large sums of cash in the "black" market. These same laws prevent you from purchasing a house (for example) with cash. Everyone is fast to blame the bankers for everything including the weather. Whereas the "banking crisis" was in part caused by people taking cheap credit (OK, the banks shouldn't have offered it in the first place) but now we complain that they do not offer cheap and unsecured mortgages, or extend overdrafts and loans to small businesses that are unable to demonstrate that they can afford it. If you are, like the majority of people in this country a depositor to the bank, do you really want them to be irresponsible with their lending again. I certainly do not. I want them to lend money to individuals against solid security and to businesses with a proven ability to repay their debt with interest. I want a share of the profit they make and I want the employees to be incentivised to increase that return on my investment. *[Ed] the laws on money laundering - allegedly to track down criminals "laundering" stolen cash, but actually used more in 1984 style to follow cash transactions of all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 ....It is all about financial control and traceability. They also have the general intentions of removing cash as it is the mainstay of a sub economy. £000s are lost to the Exchequer every year due to the inability to trace cash within the economy..... I have a feeling that they won't be able to eliminate traditional / historic money transfer systems like "hawala". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2011 I can't remember the last time that I used a cheque when face to face with a retailer, it's just not something that I would consider doing now, as such this does not overly effect me at shows (when I go to them). I do occasionally pay by cheque via post for items so that might be a pain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 No one complained, not even the trades unions, about wages being paid into the bank each month in place of a pay packet every week. Placing the money you had worked for into the hands of banks so they could use it and charge you interest? Workers must have been away with the fairies when that happened. Oh yes we did, at the time I was working for Marconi Radar, but in those days the unions were (or seemed ) very complicit with management, and we had no choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Hi, on talking to a certain trader who does most shows the length of the country, he tells me that there's been an upsurge of cash transactions in the past six months Could be because of the increase in the black economy. Always increases during recessions, as people attempt to hide income from the taxman. Or perhaps the hiding of such transactions from the "authority" in doors, where household credit card and bank statements come under closer scrutiny. "How much!! :schreak: on your model railway .... that is more than I spend on clothes and food combined!" One thing no-one has mentioned yet is the Postal Order, I've had a few over the past years for mail order and these seem to be as good as cash. I suppose it's a bother having to go the the post office, if you still have one, but for me I've got to go to post the parcel anyway and I can cash the PO instantly. Post #29 (one above yours) but I've slow keyboard skills too. Placing the money you had worked for into the hands of banks so they could use it and charge you interest? Uh! you must be with the wrong bank. My bank gives me interest on my salary when it is placed with them - they don't even charge me for the use of the account/cheques/withdrawls/transfers. Now the interest might be a paltry 2% but at least it earns a little more than stuffing it under a mattress before I spend it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted February 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2011 I happen to know a senior bank computer expert and his opinion is that 2018 is a done deal, whatever happens other existing systems will simply have to cope, unless Government forces the banks hands. Hi Stephen Unless he sits on the Payments Council (or is regularly talking to them) then he I suspect he is a bit out of touch. As I said, the latest from the Payments Council is that they recognise the problems with withdrawing cheques (particularly for the elderly, people without internet access and particularly for charities and voluntary organisations) and will not do it without a viable alternative. Of course time is running out to come up with an alternative. The motivation for the banks is clear - maintaining cheque clearing when there has been a massive reduction in the use of cheques is not financially viable. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Of course time is running out to come up with an alternative. But there are alternatives - it is just that there is opposition to using them. As it only affects a minority there is either encouragement or compulsion or a subtle mix of them both. Benefits and pensions are already managed through a card so the elderly and those without internet access could understand their use. Charities and similar organisations could make use of other methods of transfer. As I said in my first post I'd rather see the cheque retained. But if I am in a minority I don't see why the majority should pay for my stubbornness to use cheques. If cheques are disappearing for lack of use, some one has to pay for the clearing process. Start charging me for using cheques and I will soon stop using them, that's all the encouragement I'd need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 If the goat signal is a bit weak, you can always fall back to fattened pigs. many a true word etc etc Lets just say a good friend of mine who kept pigs at the time did a barter of a half pig in exchange for certain scratchbuilding items with a very well known trader. The exchange of good took place on the concourse at Kings X as the trader was dahn sarf and my friend had grandfather rights free travel on the railways. Difficult for HMRC to get a cut.......... I'll get me coat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2011 As I said in my first post I'd rather see the cheque retained. But if I am in a minority I don't see why the majority should pay for my stubbornness to use cheques. If cheques are disappearing for lack of use, some one has to pay for the clearing process. Start charging me for using cheques and I will soon stop using them, that's all the encouragement I'd need. Absolutely and wait till they start charging for cash machine withdrawals too.Its coming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 If everybody then went into a branch for their money in protest, they might rethink that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foulounoux Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 What I don't get is why the UK's agencies etc have decided that cheques serve no purpose and we can all go digital because its more secure etc etc etc So why then when I go to France do they take the opposite view and almost always traders and shops prefer to take a cheque from me with photo ID to confirm I am who I say I am in fact I write more french cheques now than I do english ones. Now either the French are missing something ( doubt it) or we in the UK are being persuaded to save the banks more money and add to their profits Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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