M G Sharp

[beast66606]

Although a very good interim and temporary solution it does not prevent the new email address being farmed from the customer's unwitting use of malware specifically designed to collect this information from address books.

 

Kenton - I think you need to understand that there are thousands and thousands and thousands of companies that use email as a communication method and therefore there has to be a solution to this, I have had the same email address for nearly 10 years and my spam filters work 99.9999999999% of the time, yes it takes a short while for them to get to "know" what is and what isn't spam but this is a 10 minute job every day or two, and doesn't last for long.

 

I think your apparent paranoia regarding computers sometimes tarnishes common sense.

[status quo]

I've dealt with MG Sharp for a number of years and never had any bother with them. Yes I've had to wait on orders but to me thats not a problem they have let me know and have had the chance to cancel. In the current climate shops will run out of stock nobody can afford to carry huge stocks. So why pick on this particular shop there is loads of shops that have the same practise as this?

 

Cheers

Steve

[MGSharp]

having read this topic after posting mine today i can only sum the service from sharps up with 2 fiting words,TOMMY TANK. in todays times i dont think i have ever dealt with such a poor service,no reply to mail,how in todays times can a firm take money straight away for items they dont even have in stock? if you dont have it in stock,dont allow the web user to order it!!! regards,bob

 

If you take the time to read my replies you will see that I clearly explain why this situation has arisen...

 

It's not how we want to do business, but it's how we now have to conform with the new DSS-PCI regulations.

 

We don't have the infrastructure in the hobby to operate like the Argos, Dixons, Asda Etc do, so we have to do the best we can with what we have... Whilst complying with the law. Which we do...

 

I would like to ask you guys a serious question....

 

How much money do you think we actually make out of this hobby???

 

Do you think we make MILLIONS, Hundreds of Thousands, Tens of Thousands or just a few Grand, or do YOU just not care!! - But expect us to offer a premium service for a pittance???

 

I would be interested to have your replies... As Unlike most of you I have been in this industry for over 30 years and I am still waiting to make my fortune.

 

As a further point of interest for you, my 18 Year old Son wanted to come into the family business and I told him not to - as I see no long term future in it. It may last me out but I doubt that - So I suggested that he go and get a proper job in something else, like accountancy or the NHS Etc.

 

I would also add that this is not just a thought that I have had it is one that a number of my close friends in the industry have also had...

[kevinlms]

Kenton - I think you need to understand that there are thousands and thousands and thousands of companies that use email as a communication method and therefore there has to be a solution to this, I have had the same email address for nearly 10 years and my spam filters work 99.9999999999% of the time, yes it takes a short while for them to get to "know" what is and what isn't spam but this is a 10 minute job every day or two, and doesn't last for long.

 

I think your apparent paranoia regarding computers sometimes tarnishes common sense.

 

I agree. I use Popfile to sort my spam out. It is a learning piece of software and it needs to be monitored & corrected for about the first 10-14 days. For the first 3-4 days, it gives VERY strange positives & negatives, making you wonder what Popfile is trying to do to you. Perserver & suddenly it comes good.

 

You need to create 2 'buckets' only (despite what the instructions say) one called 'Personal' or 'Business', the other called 'Spam'. Tick the boxes to show/modify the header on the 'Spam' box only - first 3 options.

Finally, set up a filter in your email program to send those deemed as spam (based on the subject containing the word 'Spam' - put there by Popfile) to a dedicated sub-folder (called "Suspected Spam" or similar) and your done. Any 'genuine' emails will depend entirely on your normal filtering & importantly, the header won't be changed.

 

 

By far the vast majority of the emails will be correctly seperated (as I stated after about 10-14 days approx), after that a cursory check, once a day in the 'Suspected Spam' subfolder should be made to ensure no 'genuine' emails are lost. Delete the dross - time taken 5 minutes or less. I don't bother with Web Mail or anything to pre-sort what I download.

Certainly correct any wrongly classified email by changing it in the History 'bucket'.

 

 

Looking at my statistics, it has classified over 22,000 emails, with an error rate of 172 or 99.23% - OK, there may be some more that I haven't corrected and just deleted.

All for free.

 

Kevin Martin

[kevinlms]

If you take the time to read my replies you will see that I clearly explain why this situation has arisen...

 

It's not how we want to do business, but it's how we now have to conform with the new DSS-PCI regulations.

 

We don't have the infrastructure in the hobby to operate like the Argos, Dixons, Asda Etc do, so we have to do the best we can with what we have... Whilst complying with the law. Which we do...

 

I would like to ask you guys a serious question....

 

How much money do you think we actually make out of this hobby???

 

Do you think we make MILLIONS, Hundreds of Thousands, Tens of Thousands or just a few Grand, or do YOU just not care!! - But expect us to offer a premium service for a pittance???

 

I would be interested to have your replies... As Unlike most of you I have been in this industry for over 30 years and I am still waiting to make my fortune.

 

As a further point of interest for you, my 18 Year old Son wanted to come into the family business and I told him not to - as I see no long term future in it. It may last me out but I doubt that - So I suggested that he go and get a proper job in something else, like accountancy or the NHS Etc.

 

I would also add that this is not just a thought that I have had it is one that a number of my close friends in the industry have also had...

 

So why don't you stop bashing good & honest companies that are trying to do their best in some very difficult circumstances, Most of which are beyond our own control...

 

Well, I run my own business too (nothing to do with model railways, I'll admit), but I can see nothing to gain out of shouting at my customers like the above.

 

Obviously, you don't care about the basic complaint that most of the posts at the start of this thread have been. Namely, no follow up to uncompleted orders (back orders). Sometimes you have waited months with the customers money in your hands, without contact. You say that your 'email doesn't work properly' - is that your customers' fault? How are they expected to know that? Although I do agree, if you didn't respond after a couple of follow up emails, I'd ring up, albeit allowing for time difference, as I'm in Australia.

 

You know who the back order customers are, presumably?

 

If so, why is it so hard to contact (email or whatever is the most convenient to YOU), those waiting for the balance after a 'reasonable' time scale (I would suggest 1-2 months max) to ask them if they want to wait a bit longer (another 2 months or a specific time period of your choosing) or to offer a refund? After all, you have their money and that is one thing almost guaranteed to annoy customers - to have paid for goods & not received them, whatever the reason or whose control its under.

 

Blaming the banking code has got nothing to do with holding onto customers money, without informing them. What percentage of the comments at the start are relating to none supply of back orders, with no feedback from you? It seems that this is the fundamental problem that created this thread.

 

I have seen your company advertised for many years (although never as a customer) & assumed it was a good & friendly business to deal with, but it seems that theory is wrong at this moment. It is something that is under your control to change this viewpoint. No one else (not even Kenton) can change it.

 

 

Regards

 

Kevin Martin

[dave_long]

You would make more money by not treating your customers the way you do and IMO you don't offer a premium service. I have an item on backorder with you from 2008 and have you made an effort to contact me? NO. Its no wonder you see no future in it the way you act. I also thought your email issue had been solved, but clearly not as per big bobs post.

[Kenton]

Well, I run my own business too (nothing to do with model railways, I'll admit), but I can see nothing to gain out of shouting at my customers like the above.

I would support that statement - despite the fact I can understand the annoyance at "customers" putting up a stink about your business. Any public response must retain total dignity and not sink to their level. A reply should be consolatory and seeking positive resolution even if the Mr Nasty you have acquired as a "customer" swears, stamps feet or otherwise abuses their freedom.

 

I think that now there is another alternative communication route open (PM) then this should be used, by both parties. I think any further addition to this thread (having "read" it through) to me is just suspect of another one of those who take pleasure out of using forums to issue "customer complaints" to denegrate any company.

 

Obviously, you don't care about the basic complaint that most of the posts at the start of this thread have been. Namely, no follow up to uncompleted orders (back orders). Sometimes you have waited months with the customers money in your hands, without contact. You say that your 'email doesn't work properly' - is that your customers' fault? How are they expected to know that? Although I do agree, if you didn't respond after a couple of follow up emails, I'd ring up, albeit allowing for time difference, as I'm in Australia.

 

You know who the back order customers are, presumably?

As stated the email problem is not specific to this business and it is perfectly clear to users of the site of problems with it.

Sure there may well be some solutions to that but they cost and are not total and may well be incomparable with other systems in use. Popfile being a perfect example of a solution that works in some email clients but doesn't in others. Then we have seen this issue of email problems seen with RMWeb where AOL in the past and Hotmail do not work.

 

Finally the idea of a business telephoning its customers to follow-up on back orders is a great idea and would be possible but how many businesses take that item of detail on their customer - and how many customers are routinely prepared to disclose it?

[beast66606]

As stated the email problem is not specific to this business and it is perfectly clear to users of the site of problems with it.

Sure there may well be some solutions to that but they cost and are not total and may well be incomparable with other systems in use.

Popfile being a perfect example of a solution that works in some email clients but doesn't in others. Then we have seen this issue of email problems seen with RMWeb where AOL in the past and Hotmail do not work.

 

But there are many solutions which DO work, and if I was running a business I would be trying them, so maybe Popfile doesn't work with all clients, change the client, it's not rocket science (and popfile works at the transport level so will work with most clients anyway)

[The Stationmaster]

I have followed this thread with a sort of semi-detached interest as I've never been a customer of M.G. Sharp but I do buy from other traders either directly from their retail premises or remotely (usually by 'phone in the latter case but occasionally electronically). While I can understand any business getting fed-up with being slated in public (after all I worked for one such for over 30 years) I do think that retailers have a level of care to look after their customers' interests and I would take great exception to being charged for everything I have ordered if only part of it is delivered - not that I have ever experienced that with any of the model railway traders who have had my custom. In fact any business which even tried to charge me for something they have promised but have not delivered will, as has happened with one in the past, find themselves in the Small Claims Court if they do not rapidly rectify any miss-selling or over-charging. That might sound harsh (it was - he went bust) but the message is simple - if traders take the whatsit by charging for something they don't deliver they are sitting on my money and that idea does not appeal to me, even at current miserables rates of interest, and I'm not interested in their excuses.

 

Equally I can understand the multitude of problems and bureaucracy which are faced today by small businesses working against often slim margins but many of them seem to manage despite those hurdles, sometimes without even moaning too loudly about them. And we have read in this thread of various ways of dealing with both spam emails and compliance with the Distance Selling Regulations (a compliance which seems not to present any difficulty at all for three traders I know personally - all of them charge only for what they despatch/deliver and do not charge in advance for any goods they have not delivered). Perhaps there is room in the retail trade for some sort of 'help forum' for small businesses and while that is not necessarily the business of RMWeb it might in due course be beneficial to the membership.

[MGSharp]

Well, I run my own business too (nothing to do with model railways, I'll admit), but I can see nothing to gain out of shouting at my customers like the above.

 

Regards

 

Kevin Martin

 

Sorry if my reply comes across as I was shouting at customers, that's not what I was trying to say, or do I was just trying to put a point across.

[MGSharp]

I have followed this thread with a sort of semi-detached interest as I've never been a customer of M.G. Sharp but I do buy from other traders either directly from their retail premises or remotely (usually by 'phone in the latter case but occasionally electronically). While I can understand any business getting fed-up with being slated in public (after all I worked for one such for over 30 years) I do think that retailers have a level of care to look after their customers' interests and I would take great exception to being charged for everything I have ordered if only part of it is delivered - not that I have ever experienced that with any of the model railway traders who have had my custom. In fact any business which even tried to charge me for something they have promised but have not delivered will, as has happened with one in the past, find themselves in the Small Claims Court if they do not rapidly rectify any miss-selling or over-charging. That might sound harsh (it was - he went bust) but the message is simple - if traders take the whatsit by charging for something they don't deliver they are sitting on my money and that idea does not appeal to me, even at current miserables rates of interest, and I'm not interested in their excuses.

 

Equally I can understand the multitude of problems and bureaucracy which are faced today by small businesses working against often slim margins but many of them seem to manage despite those hurdles, sometimes without even moaning too loudly about them. And we have read in this thread of various ways of dealing with both spam emails and compliance with the Distance Selling Regulations (a compliance which seems not to present any difficulty at all for three traders I know personally - all of them charge only for what they despatch/deliver and do not charge in advance for any goods they have not delivered). Perhaps there is room in the retail trade for some sort of 'help forum' for small businesses and while that is not necessarily the business of RMWeb it might in due course be beneficial to the membership.

 

I understand what you are saying about taking money upfront for items we don't have in stock, but as I have said before I don't like this situation either. I wish there was another way we could comply with the regulations and only charge for what we have supplied, but as far as I am aware there is nothing out there that we can use, unless we installed our own secure server, but the cost of this could run into tens of thousands of pounds.

 

Like I also said before if our web hosting company have walked away from a Million pound turnover because they feel that it was not able to comply, what chance have we got?

 

The only way I see around this problem is to go back to placing orders over the phone, then if you don't want the item or items backordering then that's up to you.

 

We have offered the backordering service for years as it was what people wanted at the time, maybe we now have to re-evaluate this situation, and just sell people the items we have in stock and not carry any backorders.

 

I do see all of the sides of all of the discussions and we are only trying to do our best and offer customers a service that they want - but also one that we can work with, and remain in business.

[PhilH]

Using their website as a guide I rang up to see if the items I wanted were in stock. The lady on the phone took the details, my phone number and said she'd check stock status and ring me back - which is exactly what happened. To my mind a very satisfactory way of doing business.

 

I do have some sypathy with small retailers up against bigger businesses on the internet. I also think that customers can be lazy, a little bit of proactivity can go a long way.

[Edwin_m]

I still think everyone would be much happier if MGS took the stock levels, e-commerce and email address off the website and requested potential customers to phone. Then customers wouldn't be misled into thinking items were in stock, and MGS wouldn't have to spend time and money maintaining these features and answering the flak when those pre-orders go wrong. PhilH and others have confirmed that ordering by phone seems to work fine for everyone.

 

As someone who has spent around £500 at MGS over the last few years, and received good service every time (mostly in person at the shop and exhibitions), I'm sorry to see MGS being pilloried in this way. However I do think there is a genuine problem at the root of the thread, and the answer is to solve the problem not to bite back at those who are pointing it out.

[Andy Y]

I wish there was another way we could comply with the regulations and only charge for what we have supplied, but as far as I am aware there is nothing out there that we can use,

 

Sagepay should be able to do exactly that (even though RBS Worldpay cannot) so it may be worth corresponding with them. I know it works on that basis for some other major retailers in the hobby and I've just confirmed it with someone who uses it on a much larger scale (£8m business) outside the hobby.

 

However this necessitates maintaining accurate stock levels and that is a commitment that should be considered a basic foundation in e-commerce.

[Kenton]

ADMIN edit - removed quoted reference to post deleted above

 

Come on, let's be fair here. Earlier in the thread everyone was demanding that this supplier should respond, and now that he has you criticize any effort to explain the situation. Isn't that just another example of trying to "get at" this supplier for no reason?

 

If that is the type of response a supplier gets for trying to help and get involved in RMWeb then what do we expect other suppliers to think of this forum. Either we want suppliers to take part and help our hobby or we get what we deserve.

[MGSharp]

Sagepay should be able to do exactly that (even through RBS Worldpay cannot) so it may be worth corresponding with them. I know it works on that basis for some other major retailers in the hobby and I've just confirmed it with someone who uses it on a much larger scale (£8m business) outside the hobby.

 

However this necessitates maintaining accurate stock levels and that is a commitment that should be considered a basic foundation in e-commerce.

 

 

Thanks for the info; I will look into this next week.

 

The only issue I can see is the last statement, if we were just an ecom shop this would be easy as stock would be stacked in boxes and stored in a stockroom, but we also have a shop & at present we don't have an EPOS system in place, and I don't know if one can be integrated with our web site software..

 

That said I will look into it and see what we can do.

[dave_long]

Kenton, I can't really see where this supplier has helped or got involved with rmweb. Several questions have been asked and the response just seems to have been ' thats just the way it is', several of the responses from the supplier have come across as angry and aggressive ( of which the supplier has apologized for on more than one occasion ). It took lots of prompting to get some kind of apology to those that have had major issues, which came somewhat begrudgingly. I would not want to see anyone go out of business but there are ways of securing your business for the future. I even posted a comment about having a backorder outstanding from 2008, but it was either not read, ignored or a reply wasn't even considered worth it. ( I'm not bothered about it much but it would have been nice to know that the order would not be fulfilled due to the other company probably not restocking the item).

[Guest dilbert]

All these posts to resume what the Americans call "the customer experience" (I hate the expression as well)...

 

As a purchaser of toy model railway related items, I'm always attentive to vendor behaviour - some would call this the "differentiation factor" - a factor that cuts both ways - good and bad - but people have an annoying tendancy to remember their bad experiences.

 

Concerning using the forum's PM facility to address issues 'cos email isn't working correctly - that's OK to a certain point, but fixing business related issues requires business software solutions.- as such, using the PM functionality should at best be seen as stop-gap measure and nothing more... dilbert

[Kenton]

Kenton, I can't really see where this supplier has helped or got involved with rmweb.

Please. You have it very wrong if you think I am suggesting MGSharp has contributed to the running, managemment or even sponsorship of RMWeb. I am most certainly not. Though that is purely between ANdy and any such sponsor. ADMIN edit - he wasn't, as I read it. Only referring to 'help' in a general sense, and not related to the 'with RMWeb' bit; and 'got involved with' as in contributing to this topic.

 

My point was that the start of this thread near demanded a response from MGSharp as if MGSharp was an active member and able to respond. In addition much was made of the "customers's" insistence and expectation that a supplier should do things the way they wanted. A;so that the same customers couldn't be bothered to simply read the directions on the site to telephone.

 

By simply coming on RMWeb and explaining what should have been already read (ok perhaps more tact could have been employed) that was a positive contribution. We have now progressed from being able to not only using the telephone to being able to PM this supplier, that is also positive. (I wonder just how many of the genuine complaints on here have even bothered - and been civil in their communication)

 

When you go back through this thread and actually count, there are not so many "real" complaints of bad service - there are more complaints about the approach to business T&C and to the failure to suit the whims and expectations of the customer. Far more froth than actually warrants this thread. That makes me wonder if the majority of customers actually do exactly like PhilH - follow the current T&C, pick up the telephone and do business, or go online and when a back-order problem arises then they pick up the phone.

 

There are plenty of businesses (some run by RMWeb members) that I find have cr@p websites, are not especially communicative, but I don't have problems with them. Most customers just haven't a clue how to run a business and many who do no a clue how to run a small internet business. That doesn't make their business bad or justify the negativity shown in this thread.

 

I am all for positive suggestions - Andy Y's last post had such a constructive suggestion. (though I have my own views on SAGE's products - they are not known for being small business friendly - though that depends on your definition of "small business", integration is not a word they understand unless it has a SAGE badge on it - when it works quite well)

[shortliner]

Kenton - there are however more than one comments from users about still waiting two years on - and so far there has been absolute silence about those comments from Mr E - either with regards to offering a refund, or doing something about the missing back orders - sorry, but that certainly isn't the sort of business practice that makes me revise my opinion and want to spend money there. Customer friendly it isn't!

[MGSharp]

Kenton - there are however more than one comments from users about still waiting two years on - and so far there has been absolute silence about those comments from Mr E - either with regards to offering a refund, or doing something about the missing back orders - sorry, but that certainly isn't the sort of business practice that makes me revise my opinion and want to spend money there. Customer friendly it isn't!

 

I don't feel that going into detail on a forum about personal stuff is the proper way of dealing with some of the issues you refer to, but I will say that the early complaint has now been resolved and I have spoken to the customer in person. A refund was issued by us as soon as he contacted us and a further refund was also issued by RBS Worldpay, which we have spoken about and we will resolve this over the next few weeks.

 

As for the one raised today, this is the first I have seen about it and I will be contacting the customer by PM to get more info, but I doubt he has been charged for these items as the PCI-DSS rules only came into force in Oct 2009, when we started to use RBS Worldpay.

 

As for any other issues from customers about outstanding items that have been raised on here I have to date only had one PM and that was one that I have been waiting for an update from the supplier (A1 Models) who has not been in full swing as he is moving premises and deliveries and supply updates have been somewhat erratic to say the least.

 

Regards

 

Ken

[Bernard Lamb]

I have on the odd occassion ordered items from MG Sharp and I Have received excellent service. I would have thought that any one ordering imported items would be aware of the erratic nature of supplies and would phone to check the situation rather than simply order on line. With the retirement of a person with the same first name as myself, getting hold of certain imported items has become very difficult. We were so fortunate that he would always go far beyond the expected level of service. Even to the extent of sending me a replacement loco some time after he had retired and the shop had closed. Then there was another excellent shop north of the border that packed up. Basically it's a case of no M G Sharp, no products. To put it rather bluntly. They run their business the way they think fit. If any one can do a better job then why not have a go? The reason why not? No money in it. Simples. I am afraid that it is a situation that we are going to have to get used to. If you think that M G Sharp are bad then there is a major importer who is far worse. There has been the odd comment on here if any one wants to know who they are.

Bernard

[deltic56]

You will never please all the people all the time. Dammed if you do and dammed if you don`t. I too had an experience with a "reputable" web design company whose name is similar to Con [and was free]. They proudly boasted that their credit card acceptance system took the money as soon as a customer paid for anything . Ah said I what happens if it is out of stock/not released how do we do a refund??? Response from a senior manager Eh what do you mean???. It took me at least twenty minutes to explain to him that I only wanted to charge customers for WHAT I COULD SUPPLY not what I could not. He still couldn`t grasp the idea. Hence no web site. I feel that the best method is to ring and check and then place an order the interweb is NOT the be all and end all that some people think it is. Use it properly and it is great, to solve a problem for goodness aske use your common sense and maybe use a TELEPHONE to speak to somebody, I normally find this makes me feel better.

[MGSharp]

You will never please all the people all the time. Dammed if you do and dammed if you don`t. I too had an experience with a "reputable" web design company whose name is similar to Con [and was free]. They proudly boasted that their credit card acceptance system took the money as soon as a customer paid for anything . Ah said I what happens if it is out of stock/not released how do we do a refund??? Response from a senior manager Eh what do you mean???. It took me at least twenty minutes to explain to him that I only wanted to charge customers for WHAT I COULD SUPPLY not what I could not. He still couldn`t grasp the idea. Hence no web site. I feel that the best method is to ring and check and then place an order the interweb is NOT the be all and end all that some people think it is. Use it properly and it is great, to solve a problem for goodness aske use your common sense and maybe use a TELEPHONE to speak to somebody, I normally find this makes me feel better.

 

I'm glad its just not me...

 

This sounds just like the conversation I had with various online processing BANK's... They just didn't seem to grasp the concept of the type of business we run, where we list a complete product range and keep it listed so customers can see what items are available from that company, but that we might not have it all in stock at any one time... When I pointed this out then we got the response of "Just issue them with a Refund" you get 125 free transactions a month!!!

 

I then asked about putting the balance of an order on Hold "Nope you can't do that" Why "Because the customer may not have the funds in the account at the time you want to take the money, it's to complicated & we (The Banks) Might lose out".

 

I am so glad it's not just me who has had the same issues with the online clearing banks!

[ToothFairy]

I've only just chosen to look at this thread - I've never used MGS myself, for a reason that is relevant to Ken's own responses. He says it's the user's fault if you don't read what's on the website. I find the website actually quite painful, because of the way every word begins with a capital letter. This is not a matter of pedantry; it's a matter of well-established communication theory. (I'm a lecturer in linguistics at a university, so I do claim to know something about this.)

 

The point I'm trying to make is that the way the MGS website is presented makes it extremely difficult for users to see and read everything they need to know. The information might be there, but it's hard to find and hard to process.

 

- Michael