M G Sharp

[D605Eagle]

 

I do have some sympathy with small retailers up against bigger businesses on the internet. I also think that customers can be lazy, a little bit of proactivity can go a long way.

Yes, but I do feel that because there is a website that enables you to both purchase items and contact the retailer, it should be fair to say you should be able to complete your transaction and also communicate without resorting to other means.

Personally my only dealing with Sharpies have been visits to the shop where I found the staff friendly and helpfull.

[railcardownunder]

Thank you for the response to my post about MGSharp without being aware of this thread.

 

The model railway magazines should be made aware of this by some of you in the UK. It was one of their stories about steel loads that prompted me to buy from MG Sharp and my story would mirror those in the link. I do not have the magazines to check which it was but if someone can advise which one had a new product story about these steel loads I will contact that magazine

 

Cheers Michael downunder

[railcardownunder]

Other small traders and suppliers are courteous and respond to communications.

 

I do not suggest you get rich running a model shop but unless you embrace the internet sales efficiently unfortunately your future is doomed. Of course there as some of the older generation, of which I am a member, that do not use the internet but there numbers are declining for reasons that include grand children helping them become internet savvy. Its at that stage they realise that some shops they visit are charging excessive prices and turn to the internet for all purchases as I have done. Yes I have my black list of Ebay and other sellers of second hand models I will not deal with and also a list of excellent retailers I would always trust. No guessing which list MGSharp is now on.

 

Can anyone tell me which UK Railway Modelling magazine the steel loads from MGSharp were featured in please so I can advise the editor of these problems and suggest that future mention of this retailer need careful reconsideration.

[Kenton]

Thank you for the response to my post about MGSharp without being aware of this thread.

 

The model railway magazines should be made aware of this by some of you in the UK.

I managed to read your other post. In that you expressed an attempt to contact MGSharp by email. Reading this thread you now no doubt realise the issues with email and that it is not the best form of communication and that the best and indicated method of communication is by telephone.

Tou indicated your reluctance to use telephone and that will distance you from many suppliers, not just singling out MGSharp. You will also notice that the proprietor of MGSharp is now a member of RMWeb. This gives you another, possibly more reliable, electronic method of contacting him. So that should answer your original question.

 

On the subject of contacting the editors of magazines to get them to publish opinions from a minority of customers of a supplier, I think you will find that most, if not all, of the UK magazines are fully aware of RMWeb and therefore have already seen this topic. I can understand that an editor may well take a more global and general view of such topics appearing on forums. They will see that the number of genuine complaints about this business are actually quite small and that most seem to be related to the problems with email and the charging of cards to the entire order regardless of back ordered items.

 

The former issue is a problem of personal choice, if you do not wish to use the telephone then that is your choice, if the business sees that as preferred and reliable then obviously you will not be doing business with them - both parties loose out. But there is no justification in an editor of a magazine being involved or making an issue of the matter for this one company.

 

The issue with back ordering has been covered at length here and from the way I read the proprietor's responses here that system has now been changed. But it remains in place for many other companies. So once again an editor of a magazine is not going to be interested in "attacking" one single supplier on this issue.

 

On a wider issue one has to be very wary of topics of complaints made on Forums, even on RMWeb. Not wishing to impart any ulterior motives, the people who lodge complaints are usually in the very small minority of the customers of any business. That is not saying they have no right to air their genuine complaint and that, to them, it is personal, but a certain level of balance needs to be exercised. There are probably far more customers who are content with the service of a particular supplier and probably many more who just do not read the complaint in the first place.

 

Rather than placing this business on your personal "black list", I would suggest you followup on your first question, now you have the answer, and contact the proprietor. You may become one of the happy customers and could then be so forthcoming in posting your support in a topic like this.

 

But regardless of your choice of using this business I object to your implied suggestion that a magazine should "black list" or that I, one of the vocal satisfied customers, should "black list" this business.

[railcardownunder]

Please note that it not that I do not wish to use the telephone but I have great difficulty in doing so due to my significant hearing problem.

 

Also if a business publish an email address they should respond to emails. If they do not wish to respond to emails they should not include their email on their headed invoices. In this case in much bolder type than the telephone number.

 

Further I have no idea who you are but you used the word "attack" not I and I did not attack them although I note others could be interpreted as doing so. I was merely trying to carry out normal business with a business that does not have the courtesy to reply to an email address they publish.

 

Further magazine editors need to be made aware directly and purely and 100% factually of issues that arise after they have featured a product from an individual supplier.

 

I reiterate that if MG Sharp Models had replied to an email after several emails and a goodly time period, and to an email address they publish I would not have needed to follow other avenues and I would not have been aware that I was not alone in having some issues with this specific supplier.

 

Further if you read my original post I was merely enquiring whether others had had difficulty receiving a reply from this business by email, it was not an attack or a complaint. However having read a post, presumably from the owner / proprietor I feel it would be prudent not to consider dealing with anyone with the attitude they portray in that post. While if they do not deliver, and I have no reason until now, to consider they will not deliver, I may have just written the loss off to experience. Now I shall pursue the matter until I receive the items I have paid or a full refund.

 

Finally my original post in no way suggested they do not or would not honour a purchase but merely I had had difficulty contacting them by email and I am not able to telephone them due to my hearing loss, in other words I am fairly deaf. Further being a widower I do not have anyone to make the telephone call on my behalf.

 

It would be appropriate if you had read what i had written before "attacking" (your word) myself.

 

Michael Downunder and happy to chose who I deal with.

[Andy Y]

It would be appropriate if you had read what i had written before "attacking" (your word) myself.

 

I'm sorry; the posts in here and the other topic certainly did look like an aggressive approach to whip up support amongst the media for an individual issue. You'll have had time to read now that it's a bigger picture and seen MG Sharp's response and the advice already offered to them. You can of course make your own choices but it does seem that you want to bang your drum harder and louder than has already been done. Please just wind it in a bit.

 

 

 

[railcardownunder]

When I wrote my enquiry, as that's what it was and still it, I had not located posts on MG Sharp as I searched for MGSharp as on their letter head. My issue was, and is, only I am deaf they have an email address they publish and do not respond to queries about a partial order received.

 

No aggression, simply enquiring, and hoping for assistance with my communication problem.

 

Some assistance would be appreciated please.

Michael

[ozzyo]

Please note that it not that I do not wish to use the telephone but I have great difficulty in doing so due to my significant hearing problem.

 

Michael Downunder.

 

 

 

Michael,

 

as has been pointed out why not send Biil or is it Ken a personal message (PM) via RMweb. All you have to do is use the drop down box at the top right, then open new messages, all you need for the name is MGSharp.

 

HTH

 

OzzyO.

[plarailfan]

If you take the time to read my replies you will see that I clearly explain why this situation has arisen...

 

It's not how we want to do business, but it's how we now have to conform with the new DSS-PCI regulations.

 

We don't have the infrastructure in the hobby to operate like the Argos, Dixons, Asda Etc do, so we have to do the best we can with what we have... Whilst complying with the law. Which we do...

 

I would like to ask you guys a serious question....

 

How much money do you think we actually make out of this hobby???

 

Do you think we make MILLIONS, Hundreds of Thousands, Tens of Thousands or just a few Grand, or do YOU just not care!! - But expect us to offer a premium service for a pittance???

 

I would be interested to have your replies... As Unlike most of you I have been in this industry for over 30 years and I am still waiting to make my fortune.

 

As a further point of interest for you, my 18 Year old Son wanted to come into the family business and I told him not to - as I see no long term future in it. It may last me out but I doubt that - So I suggested that he go and get a proper job in something else, like accountancy or the NHS Etc.

 

I would also add that this is not just a thought that I have had it is one that a number of my close friends in the industry have also had...

 

 

Thanks Ken, for taking the time to respond to our various comments.

I've been in your shop sometimes when it's busting to the gunnels, after you've had a delivery. Quite honestly, it's breathtaking, a week later, to visit again and find a lot of it gone, presumably sold.

I thought with having a niche market (mostly continental / American etc) you would be enjoying a good living, after all, it's not cheap stuff, all that Kato, Meho stuff DCC sound etc.

It's rather worrying that you don't see much of a future for your son, in this line of work. Where's it all going wrong, are all your customers older people, with not many youngsters around, or is everything getting so expensive, that a lot of people have cut back their spending habits ?

I've been visiting your shop since I left school in the 1970's and it's still got the 'wow' factor I felt all those years ago. (back in those days, I came by bus, when it was still the "peoples republic of South Yorkshire" - the fare from Sheffield to your shop was about 10p - cheap even then)

Oh those were the days, I've moved house since then, so don't get in the shop quite as much, I'm really sorry your'e struggling now after all these years though.

Simon.

[Tim Hale]

Carbootnut wrote

Thanks Ken, for taking the time to respond to our various comments.

I've been in your shop sometimes when it's busting to the gunnels, after you've had a delivery. Quite honestly, it's breathtaking, a week later, to visit again and find a lot of it gone, presumably sold.

I thought with having a niche market (mostly continental / American etc) you would be enjoying a good living, after all, it's not cheap stuff, all that Kato, Meho stuff DCC sound etc.

It's rather worrying that you don't see much of a future for your son, in this line of work. Where's it all going wrong, are all your customers older people, with not many youngsters around, or is everything getting so expensive, that a lot of people have cut back their spending habits ?

I've been visiting your shop since I left school in the 1970's and it's still got the 'wow' factor I felt all those years ago. (back in those days, I came by bus, when it was still the "peoples republic of South Yorkshire" - the fare from Sheffield to your shop was about 10p - cheap even then)

Oh those were the days, I've moved house since then, so don't get in the shop quite as much, I'm really sorry your'e struggling now after all these years though.

Simon.

 

Well said, that man.

 

I have always enjoyed good service with Sharps, if the item isn't in stock then that is OK, I can wait and buy it later.

 

Tim

[kevinlms]

Other small traders and suppliers are courteous and respond to communications.

 

 

 

Can anyone tell me which UK Railway Modelling magazine the steel loads from MGSharp were featured in please so I can advise the editor of these problems and suggest that future mention of this retailer need careful reconsideration.

 

Michael

 

The answer to that question is actually very easy to find. It took me about 2 minutes to Google & another 2 minutes to locate the article in the designated magazine. It wasn't long ago at all.

 

The article mentions the manufacturer & one retailer. I would expect such items as described (steel loads) would not normally be huge sellers and it would seem unsurprising that such items would run out of stock very quickly, when featured in a major magazine. Perhaps the supplier & other retailers are also out of stock?

 

 

 

As far as I can see, MG Sharp has done nothing significant wrong, except not answer your email promptly. Not good business practice maybe, but that alone doesn't make the business a crooked one. In fact, the owner has stated here that if anyone contacts him (successfully, somehow), he will offer a refund. Hardly evidence of a crook, is it?

 

I can understand that a retailer may not be able to say precisely when new stock will arrive, but it is something that he has to manage, somehow - It is up to them to choose the method of advising, but choose they most certainly must do, if they have taken payment for it.

Apparently ignoring, requests for that information is certainly no solution, as has occured to start this thread.

 

 

 

In the old pre-internet days, I'm sure the magazines (big 3 then) didn't rush off to print on the first warning from 'a reader' about "dodgy" traders. They would have built a file up first & contacted the business concerned for their version of events.

 

Only if unsatisfactory answers or none were received would they have gone off to print.

 

After 3 or 4 (at most) issues, there would be a note along the lines of "This correspondence is now closed".

 

 

Kevin Martin

 

Also downunder & who hasn't purchased from MG Sharp, so no vested interest.

[Kenton]

Please note that it not that I do not wish to use the telephone but I have great difficulty in doing so due to my significant hearing problem.

I'll respond to this point only, although it has been covered.

I am truly apologetic for your position regarding telephoning any supplier. I also appreciate that telephoning from abroad, if that is your case, is also difficult. I have conversed with this company in the past by email, by telephone and by RMWeb's PM system. It is not that they do not communicate by email and I am pretty certain that they do not ignore emails, it is just that some emails are commonly blocked by some systems. Sure there are some ways around this some available some only possible by implementing other software that may not fit in or be cost effective to the business. The fact that MGSharp acknowledge that there is a problem with some incoming emails and clearly indicate telephone service is preferred is quite clear on the web site but of no use to you.

 

Just like the snail mail postal system there is no real assurance of delivery - or more specifically delivery into the sight of the recipient. Using email providers such as those I listed early often comes with it the increased risk of being recognised as spam and until your specific email address has been "approved" by the spam filter you will remain unknown. Many (if not most) of the "free" emails come with baggage that indicates potential spam and spammers frequently use these "free" and "anonymous" email servers. On top of that, some servers will deliberately be set to "ignore" foreign domains (thereby limiting their trade to only uk/us business. I know that seems short sighted, unfair, and I am not suggesting is the case here, but it is a fact that some small suppliers may just not wish to do business outside the UK with all the potential hassle and risks it may involve.

 

Clearly your inability to use the telephone presents you with a real problem with some suppliers, to the determent of both parties. But it is just a fact of life that there are two sides. I could just suggest that you get a friend to phone on your behalf. But, I think if I were in your position, I might also simply take my trade elsewhere. What I would not be doing is trying to change the way the company operates or the way a magazine featured that company.

[Guest dilbert]

Ok they aint the most punter -friendly shop in the world, but (in my experience!!) few model shops ever are......its the autistic trait in this hobby - but thats what it is a hobby shop...

 

Whilst I agree that there appear to be polarised views on this subject that will never budge, I've read this statement a couple of times, and still do not understand what message is being conveyed... dilbert

[railcardownunder]

Michael,

 

as has been pointed out why not send Biil or is it Ken a personal message (PM) via RMweb. All you have to do is use the drop down box at the top right, then open new messages, all you need for the name is MGSharp.

 

HTH

 

OzzyO.

 

Thank you I will have a look as to how to do that.

Suggestion appreciated

[ozzyo]

Thank you I will have a look as to how to do that.

Suggestion appreciated

 

 

If you click on the box that has your name in it you will get a drop down menu, click on messages this will open a new page, click on compose new, you will get a new page, type in your recipient's name (MGSharp) put something in title, them write your message.

 

OzzyO.

[meil]

There are a number of suppliers that I deal with who take the money on order; Rapid Electronics being one. The difference however is their stock-taking system is obviously more sophisticated than MGSharp's and you can see if an item is on back order (and the approximate time). You therefore have the choice in the knowledge of its status.

 

The problem with MGS is there is no indication of an item being on back order.

 

I would suggest that MGS either improves their stock status, and record that on their web site, or use a less sophisticated web site that does not give the impression that MGS is a much more sophisticated outfit than they apparently are.

 

 

[MichaelB]

I never actually received the Kato Unitrack items I'd ordered from M G Sharp.

 

More than six months after ordering I managed to get someone there on the 'phone (I'd rung or emailed every month in between with no answer or response) and had to settle for some other items they had in stock at the time instead. Before then I'd spent hundreds of pounds with them, never again.

 

There seems to be an attitude prevalent within some railway model shops and providers that because for us (the consumer) this is a hobby then they can treat our business as some sort of hobby as well. Well they can't, they're taking are hard earned money and should provide a decent service. Before I retired I worked in public service, if I'd been as slap dash as (in my experience) M G Sharp and for example Dapol, I would have been sacked, yet raise a word in criticism I bet you there a load of responses here having a go at the critic for daring to say something bad about the miscreant firm. In contrast firms like Traintrax (for Unitrack) or Union Mills are just brilliant, they're still tiny (I think almost one man bands) but provide real personal service. It can't be easy but they obviously care, whereas some others I'm afraid are playing us for mugs.

[Kenton]

yet raise a word in criticism I bet you there a load of responses here having a go at the critic for daring to say something bad about the miscreant firm.

Perhaps that happens because some of us question the motives of a new member (with only 7 posts at this date) coming on a forum like this and then using most of those posts slagging off the hobby's suppliers and even opening up an old thread just to stick a knife in the mix.

 

It is not denying that you have had a grievance, or that we doubt that you did phone once a month without the phone being answered.

 

As has been pointed out in this thread, which you may have bothered to read before resurrecting it, email can be a waste of time with this supplier.

 

Also, I don't think the implication that you were forced to settle for something you didn't order

and had to settle for some other items they had in stock at the time instead.

is appropriate. That was almost certainly only a suggestion to you, which you then accepted of your own free will. You could have asked for a refund.

[Pennine MC]

Perhaps that happens because some of us question the motives of a new member (with only 7 posts at this date) coming on a forum like this and then using most of those posts slagging off the hobby's suppliers and even opening up an old thread just to stick a knife in the mix.

 

 

From an earlier post by this member:

 

I've worked in professional complaint handling for most of my career and my experience is that if someone complains (with some notably often bizarre exceptions) they personally think they have a good cause for doing so (how they go about it is another question)

 

IMHO some recent complaints (this and the Dapol one) are well enough presented for the number of posts to not be an issue.

 

I'm not grinding any axes here for or against either firm, but I do like to see people treated fairly

[PhilH]

From an earlier post by this member:

 

 

 

IMHO some recent complaints (this and the Dapol one) are well enough presented for the number of posts to not be an issue.

 

I'm not grinding any axes here for or against either firm, but I do like to see people treated fairly

 

But when this member's only real contribution to the forum is this crusade I think it is legitimate to question their motives.

[Pennine MC]

But when this member's only real contribution to the forum is this crusade I think it is legitimate to question their motives.

 

Legitimate to question Phil, yes, but (as I said) as long as it's done fairly and isn't prejudged. I've seen more than my share of chancers on here; all I'll say is some posters fit the profile, some don't.

[dave_long]

I'm sorry to bring this thread out of the darkness. But I've just had an appalling conversation over the telephone after ordering some items over the phone on the 25th Jan 2012.

I've umb'd and arr'd for quite a while after reading all this thread last year and finally thought I'd give them a go and order over the phone as suggested. When I ordered the items I was given no inclination that the stock I wanted was not in stock or that anything would be on back order.

I called 10 days after placing an order. All I got from that conversation was yes I think my partner has just packed your items and sent them out, but didn't check at the time. So I thought ok I wait a little longer.

 

I call today, stating the above, and was told point blank 'Well we didn't have them they're on back order' but I said that you'd stated that they had been packed and shipped. reply 'well they hadn't they'll be on back order'. I asked wouldn't it be an idea to inform the customer of this and not have them sitting around waiting for something that isn't going to turn up? I should have sent you an email was the reply. I then said I ordered over the phone 'oh well then you wouldn't have got an email then would you!'

 

I then asked for my order to be cancelled as I did not like the way things were just put on back order. 'Ok your order is cancelled!' phone went down!

 

I waited a few moments and rang back, said I wasn't looking for an argument but how can you cancel my order you haven't even taken my name? Well I can tell from my phone I have your details ( my phone is ex-directory and would have displayed withheld ) I said you haven't taken my name and I don't want 6 months down the line to be billed for some items when they've come in stock. Answer was 'Well they wont be coming instock!'

I then asked for him to find my details to make sure they were cancelled he said can you wait 30 minutes? I said you can call me back can't you, Whats your name then ' Mr Long' I said. Reply 'Right your order has been cancelled' Phone slammed again.

 

I'm sorry but I thought I'd give them a try, there are hundreds of US detailing parts listed on their site, I know some are going to be out of stock I'm not bothered by that, but if they are it would be nice to be told that, or atleast on the second call, instead of being told that they had been dispatched. To put the phone down on customer is disgusting, He obviously knew that their was no stock in, but from what he said it doesn't look like he can be bothered to actually order any in now or in 6 months time!

 

I tried to give them a chance, but I'm not going near them ever again!

 

Dave

[RedgateModels]

hmmmm, so after all the posturing about using the 'phone it seems the same level of customer service applies to email/on-line orders.

 

I wouldn't say I won't go near them again though, I might even wave as I go by on my way to Marcway

[Talltim]

Last time I went, the bloke was swearing at the woman for parking her car wrongly. I'm not going back either

[Ohmisterporter]

Having just waded through this entire thread I conclude that it seems a place to avoid. Having said that, they must be doing something right or they couldn't have stayed in business this long could they?