Fotopic

[35005CP]

Hi all,

 

It seems that this is now official news;

 

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Fotopicnet_owner_going_into_liquidation_update_news_306622.html

 

Best Wishes

 

Andy

[Pugsley]

Don't forget that they pulled the plug without any prior warning and were still happy to recieve peoples subscriptions, despite their business model showing signs of failing for some time.

That was down to Snappy Designs though, not Joel, who looked like the only lifeline that the Fotopic users had for recovering their galleries.

[Etched Pixels]

And there goes the parachute...I suspect that's the last person with an interest/inclination to do something positive with this. I think it's maybe time to say "that's all folks" on Fotopic.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh I doubt the game is over. The site will appeal to at least three groups of companies

 

- Big ones wanting to boost their own rather flagging photo sites by absorbing another one (and stopping the rivals doing it).

 

- Opportunists who figure that they can make charging for all accounts mandatory on the basis enough people will pay for a year at some suitable "fee" to get their photos back, then either continue or close it depending what happens longer term.

 

- Junk advertisers - who will buy the domain so they can serve viagra adverts in response to any fotopic request from old pages all over the net - lot of links to that domain so lot of junk advertising potential

 

Now the process is officially under way the opportunity exists to pick up the assets without the liabilities so it becomes interesting to them

[298]

Oh I doubt the game is over. The site will appeal to at least three groups of companies

 

- Big ones wanting to boost their own rather flagging photo sites by absorbing another one (and stopping the rivals doing it).

 

- Opportunists who figure that they can make charging for all accounts mandatory on the basis enough people will pay for a year at some suitable "fee" to get their photos back, then either continue or close it depending what happens longer term.

 

- Junk advertisers - who will buy the domain so they can serve viagra adverts in response to any fotopic request from old pages all over the net - lot of links to that domain so lot of junk advertising potential

 

Now the process is officially under way the opportunity exists to pick up the assets without the liabilities so it becomes interesting to them

 

Surely if there was a chance of another company taking the site on, we'd have heard at least the directors promoting the viability of the business...? But the again, every time I looked at the homepage the recently uploaded images were either buses or trains, with the odd "arty" shot, so they probably lost alot of users who merely posted images of drunk people on a night out to Facebook. That's why I see it as being a bit like "Friends Reunited" or whatever, that site's popularity soon went downhill and with Fotopic's limited customer base it'd struggle to attract external advertising or a new buyer.

[john new]

I haven't followed all the history on this as closely as some but from what I have read there seemed to be two issues ongoing -

 

1) The original source code writer for the system had left (Joel?) and the new owners had not got the expertise to maintain that source code, using Joel from time to time as a consultant to do maintenance changes etc.

 

2) Viability of the business model adopted.

 

Problem (2) should have been foreseeable and possibly even fixable if the free users had been given notice and offered a nominal charge. However Snappy Designs appear to have done what many other businesses have done just kept going until the inevitable no warning shut down locked door situation. Liquidation or administration has happened many times recently over wedding dress suppliers, caterers, pubs, fitted kitchen suppliers, football clubs etc., etc., so nothing unique with that and some of those businesses do rise from the ashes in some form or another.

 

However IF anyone is to take over fotopic then issue (1) is the critical item to resolve, if it is bespoke software the ability to maintain the source code is vital to success. Given that Joel is starting an alternative in Pikfu I doubt that his input back at fotopic is a likely option unless the price is right, so back full circle to (2) as it would appear there either a) wasn't the money to pay a top source code writer or ( b ) the code is unique and complex and was unscrambleable without the knowledge of the original writer!!

[Glorious NSE]

I believe you're correct John that it's bespoke software, written by Joel, originally to provide gallery pages on a personal website but then converted to a standalone, commercial, photo hosting website - so some kind of straight reincarnation would likely still have the same issues.

 

Depending on how the info is stored I guess it *should* be possible to write something to extract the actual content and add it to a new site if it were taken over by the operators of another service, but i'm still not convinced that's at all likely. I'm not sure this is a marketplace that's so competitive that there is a rush to buy out the competition. I've been through one failure before and that was that - just gone. No rescue. No bail out.

 

And all a new owner would really inherit is lots an angry "customers" - some of whom *might* be willing to pay for continuing service, some of them definately will not, either because they wouldn't have ever paid for the service before anyhow, or because they have already started rebuilding somewhere else...some of the existing "customer" base are also vocal and we've seen they don't do logic, or planning, or thinking but do do abuse, personal attacks and vendetta's.

 

Even if I had spare money, this wouldn't jump out at me as a good investment.

 

The spam magnet theory unfortunately is rather more credible - but I would disagree and say it's most definately game over (from the point of view of the image archive) if it goes that way.

 

 

[spamcan61]

 

- Opportunists who figure that they can make charging for all accounts mandatory on the basis enough people will pay for a year at some suitable "fee" to get their photos back, then either continue or close it depending what happens longer term.

 

 

That sounds like it could be a viable business model, I'm sure there's plenty of angry Fotopic punters (me included) who would pay 10 - 20 - 30 quid to avoid the hours/days hassle of starting from scratch.

[Dudley]

That sounds like it could be a viable business model, I'm sure there's plenty of angry Fotopic punters (me included) who would pay 10 - 20 - 30 quid to avoid the hours/days hassle of starting from scratch.

 

HEAR HEAR!

 

SmugMug beckons but I just can't be bothered to sit in front of another computer for hours uploading and adding accurate captions...

 

Dudley

[Karhedron]

The following may be of interest and comes courtesy of Cpatain Electra.

 

OT but possibly of interest to those of us with Fotopic galleries - taken from aposting on another Yahoogroup...

 

FOTOPIC.NET BOSS TELLS PHOTOGRAPHERS: IT'S NO TECHNICAL PROBLEM

 

Thursday 31st March 2011

Chris Cheesman

 

The boss of image-sharing website fotopic.net has today failed to reassure users about the fate of thousands of their images.

 

NEWS UPDATE: Fotopic.net heads for liquidation

 

It is estimated that up to 70,000 images have vanished from fotopic.net without warning - many users paying a premium rate for an account with the website.

 

Yesterday we photographers' fears that the company behind the site has hit the buffers and ceased trading.

 

This morning Amateur Photographer (AP) tracked down Stephen Dyer, director of Snappy Designs which owns fotopic.net.

 

AP relayed photographers' outrage over the apparent loss of their images as they clamour for information and try to contact the website's owner without success.

 

Here is a transcript of AP's call to Dyer, made at 8.30am today, in which he refused to answer many of our questions.

 

AP: You are the director of the company that owns fotopic.net. Do you know what's happened to the website and why it has disappeared?

 

Dyer: Yes I do, and I'm hoping to make a public statement about it. There are legal matters to be sorted out.

 

AP: Is the company in financial trouble? There is concern that it has ceased trading.

 

Dyer: I understand where you are coming from. I don't want to make a comment. [until the legal matters are resolved].

 

AP: There's a lot of people complaining because thousands of their pictures have disappeared. Do you know how long they will have to wait to get them back? Is the site going to reappear?

 

Dyer: I don't know. Obviously I'm doing my best. I would rather speak to you later today.

 

AP: People have paid a lot of money for a premium account. Will they get a refund?

 

Dyer: I will happily speak to you as soon as I can.

 

AP: Can you confirm that the company is still trading?

Dyer: I will give you all the information I can, when I can. I'm not being difficult.

 

AP: So it's not a technical problem with the website server then?

 

Dyer: It's true to say it's not a technical problem.

[Glorious NSE]

Erm, you might want to catch up with the thread, we reported that over a week ago (part of #123, 31/3)

 

Since that was posted the company has appointed a liquidator and Joel has ruled himself out of being part of any rescue attempt, making that much less likely IMHO...

 

 

[Etched Pixels]

Oddly there is still nothing at companies house or in the London Gazette on the subject that I can find

[AMJ]

Amateur Photographer has news but it's from 31/3 http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Photography_website_Fotopicnet_heads_for_liquidation_update3_news_306622.html

 

Perhaps it's time that I consider hosting my own photos as I have quite a reasonable sized hosting package.

[Glorious NSE]

Really need to sort this invisible ink issue...

[AMJ]

Just a trial with Picasa

 

[35005CP]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for all the previous posts regarding Fotopic. I have a question with regards to its demise. Is it possible or do you know of a way I can get hold of the company/people so that I can possibly get back 2 set's of photos that I uploaded to my Fotopic site/ex fotopic site.

I will certianly learn from this lesson in future. Some of these were great shots; of which I will probably never beable to capture again. All the others I have backed up - Apart from 2 sets. At least which I cannot find amongst my CD's.

 

Many Thanks

 

I hope someone can help???

 

Best Wishes

 

Andy

[MarkSG]

Thanks for all the previous posts regarding Fotopic. I have a question with regards to its demise. Is it possible or do you know of a way I can get hold of the company/people so that I can possibly get back 2 set's of photos that I uploaded to my Fotopic site/ex fotopic site.

I will certianly learn from this lesson in future. Some of these were great shots; of which I will probably never beable to capture again. All the others I have backed up - Apart from 2 sets. At least which I cannot find amongst my CD's.

 

You will not be able to do that unless and until the administrator finds a buyer for either the company as a whole or the individual assets. At the moment, the equipment has been removed from the data centre where it was once housed and is not connected either to power or to the Internet. It will not be connected again to either until it has been paid for.

 

You might be lucky and find your photos still in either Google's cache (although it's a bit old for that now) or at http://www.archive.org. Otherwise, your chances of getting them back are close to non-existent in the short term and pretty slim in the long run.

 

What was your gallery name?

 

Mark

[35005CP]

You will not be able to do that unless and until the administrator finds a buyer for either the company as a whole or the individual assets. At the moment, the equipment has been removed from the data centre where it was once housed and is not connected either to power or to the Internet. It will not be connected again to either until it has been paid for.

 

You might be lucky and find your photos still in either Google's cache (although it's a bit old for that now) or at http://www.archive.org. Otherwise, your chances of getting them back are close to non-existent in the short term and pretty slim in the long run.

 

What was your gallery name?

 

Mark

 

Hi Mark,

 

Thanks for the reply. I hope something happens soon? My site was here; http://andysteamgallery.fotopic.net/

 

It is unbelievable that fotopic have done this to their users. You would have thought an email would have been sent to tell people that the site was going to close down? And surely they have all the Hard Drives with our pictures and data on it?

 

Thanks once again.

 

Andy

[Etched Pixels]

It is unbelievable that fotopic have done this to their users. You would have thought an email would have been sent to tell people that the site was going to close down? And surely they have all the Hard Drives with our pictures and data on it?

 

Most likely the hosting company has those (if indeed it was ever its own set of disks not just part of some managed storage arrangement, and if so I would assume they won't be giving them to anyone until they've been paid anything owed, or will blank and flog off the disks if they can't get anything back other ways.

[35005CP]

I only wish I knew about this tool.... http://www.joel.co.uk/fpbackup/

[MarkSG]

Hi Mark,

 

Thanks for the reply. I hope something happens soon? My site was here; http://andysteamgallery.fotopic.net/

 

It is unbelievable that fotopic have done this to their users. You would have thought an email would have been sent to tell people that the site was going to close down? And surely they have all the Hard Drives with our pictures and data on it?

 

They do have the drives. But the drives aren't connected to anything which would allow the data to be retrieved.

 

The data isn't stored in a normal file format, as it would be on your PC. It's in a custom format optimised for storing millions of images. But what that means is that the files can't be copied off the drives unless they're part of the entire system. And that won't happen again until the company or assets are sold.

[MarkSG]

Most likely the hosting company has those (if indeed it was ever its own set of disks not just part of some managed storage arrangement, and if so I would assume they won't be giving them to anyone until they've been paid anything owed, or will blank and flog off the disks if they can't get anything back other ways.

 

Fotopic owned its own equipment, it wasn't using managed storage or shared hosting. There are discussions going on regarding the possible retrieval of the data from the disks, but that won't happen any time soon.

 

Now that the company which owned Fotopic has been placed into administration, the administrator is legally bound to follow a certain process. Firstly, he has to try to sell the company as a going concern. If that happens, then Fotopic will come back online and you'll get access to your photos again. If it doesn't happen, then his next task is to try and maximise the assets of the company. That's the point at which it may be possible to retrieve the data. The key here is that the disks are worth more with the data on them than they are blank, provided that the data is worth something to someone. It's feasible that the data may be purchased separately to the equipment, in a way which will allow it to be made accessible again. But that can't happen until step one (trying to find a buyer for the business as a whole) has been tried and failed, as selling of any part of the assets (including the data) before then could prejudice any future sale.

 

The administrator has up to a year to try to find a buyer, although he isn't obliged to wait that long if it becomes clear sooner that there's no practical probability of it happening. But it's still more likely to be a matter of months rather than weeks. Until that phase is complete, there's very little chance of getting access to the data in any shape or form.

 

Mark

[Etched Pixels]

They do have the drives. But the drives aren't connected to anything which would allow the data to be retrieved.

 

The data isn't stored in a normal file format, as it would be on your PC. It's in a custom format optimised for storing millions of images. But what that means is that the files can't be copied off the drives unless they're part of the entire system. And that won't happen again until the company or assets are sold.

 

Unless the architecture changed somewhat since I last knew about it they were standard Linux systems at the bottom level, so actually they *would* in the same format as my PC 8). The indexes might be a bit of a pig.

 

Alan

[JeremyC]

I've been reading this thread as things develop, but am in the fortunate position that those few images I did have on Fotopic were all scanned from slides so I have the originals.

 

Regarding the comments about a possible sale of the the business. If I understand the terms and conditions correctly [and the explanation elsewhere in this thread] Fotopic could use the pictures to promote the service, but the copyright and owership remained with the photographer, so would the data i.e. the pictures have much/any value to a third party buyer as they wouldn't own them?

 

Slightly OT, I'm, quite frankly, surprised how many people haven't got back-ups of their photos. I have at least three electronic copies of everything, one 'in use' copy on an external HD plus two more back ups, also on hard drives, [one not kept in the house] and also burn a copy at regular intervals to a DVD. That's in addition to also having the original slides/negatives of those taken before digital photography days. The keeping of at least 3 copies was advised to me by a IT person at work, as he put it, "if you have two copies and one fails you no longer have a back up". You can buy 1TB [edited from 1GB] hard drives for under 100GBP and that'll store a lot of photos!

 

Jeremy

[Glorious NSE]

Regarding the comments about a possible sale of the the business. If I understand the terms and conditions correctly [and the explanation elsewhere in this thread] Fotopic could use the pictures to promote the service, but the copyright and owership remained with the photographer, so would the data i.e. the pictures have much/any value to a third party buyer as they wouldn't own them?

 

They wouldn't have a value in their own right (they wouln't "own" your images) but they do have a value to a potential buyer as part of a service to host your images.

[beast66606]

You can buy 1GB hard drives for under 100GBP and that'll store a lot of photos!

 

You can get a lot more on a 1TB drive

 

Backup, backup, backup thats the important point, I am also dismayed by people using fotopic as their only copy - if anyone is doing this with flickr or zenfolio or ... then get a backup done now.