coachmann Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hi Tony, Can I just say that if you don't have toy train curves on your layout, it is a simple matter to prevent the outer pony trucks from swivelling with a spot of glue. The Stove R definitely runs much better. I've gone the extra mile and fitted 14mm Hornby coach wheels (extra weight). Link : http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/30037-stoking-up-a-stove-r/page__pid__318297?do=findComment&comment=318297 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Well, sad to say, I'm another who has had enough and cancelled his order. Time to look at Comet and 5522 methinks................... C'est la vie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hi Coachmann, Thanks, at the moment I only have a test track to test kit wagons and RTR conversions, min rad 24" Peco code 75. The layout when it gets beyond a pile of ply sheets, will be a min of 36" except the fiddle yard which may go down to 24". There is a wealth of good info on the forum to fix various problems with this model, but the point is there should really be nothing to fix, just a little fine detailing for those that want to tinker. We are fortunate that a number of enterprises are commissioning models of rearer prototypes and I for one will definitly going for the LMS twins. I could not justify the cost of the FIAT version, wonderfull though it was but I am certain the Bachmann version will be a good effort and at least it should run. I just hope the Stove R does not put too many off, whether that be manufacturers or customers, otherwise we will all be back to kit building and the layout will never get started! Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hi Tony, Can I just say that if you don't have toy train curves on your layout, it is a simple matter to prevent the outer pony trucks from swivelling with a spot of glue. The Stove R definitely runs much better. I've posted elsewhere on this problem : mine won't entertain the club's single slip under any circumstances. I plan to immobilise one of the end swivelling axles with blue-tak. I'll always have to run that end first, but I'm hoping that it will deal with the problem. Tony [but not the same one !]. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Hi All The whole R stove thing has been bit of a joke ,from the problems with it and the way it has been brought to the market , i feel sorry for IA with this one on their hands. I too had one on order but never heard a thing back, even through I phoned them just before christmas and was told they had sold out of the one i wanted! . So i have told them that i do not want one now. I have a class 22 and the BTW on order and i am getting a little worried that they will just be wrong or not work as they should. So now on with the iorn and out with the brass one i have, Sorry to all involed with this coach , IMO the whole thing has been badly done from the start. Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I'm afraid the Dapol Stove went beyond a joke when the guards door has hinges down both sides! The unguided swivelling outer axles were bad enough. I asked for a refund before the model was received. Shortly thereafter I was offered a refund by Ian Allan Publishing because of the 20 day rule. Emails flowed back and forth with them comfirming my refund was being processed, but they still sent me a van instead of money. That was a mistake, a fatal one as far as I'm concerned, because it displayed a cavalier attitude. My initial expression of interest in the project was offered on trust, as even in my wildest dream I could not have anticipated such a catalogue of errors. Afterall, I was guided by the products of Hornby and Bachmann. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D820 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I found this thread on the old RMWeb site (http://www.rmweb.co....hp?f=11&t=50734) and in particular, this posting:- Re: 00 Stove R from Hornby Magazine by Finelines » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:55 am How glad am I that I had not started to cut metal on the kit RC461 LMS Stove R? Roger Any chance of a rethink here, might still be an opening in the market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I found this thread on the old RMWeb site (http://www.rmweb.co....hp?f=11&t=50734) and in particular, this posting:- Re: 00 Stove R from Hornby Magazine by Finelines » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:55 am How glad am I that I had not started to cut metal on the kit RC461 LMS Stove R? Roger Any chance of a rethink here, might still be an opening in the market. Roger, if you are re-thinking put me down for two before I order a Comet kit (nothing wrong with Comet BTW) Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted February 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2011 Don't go there chaps, please ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 That was a mistake, a fatal one as far as I'm concerned, because it displayed a cavalier attitude. The LMS Stove R which I ordered was supposed to be maroon (leaving out the particular shade) with maroon ends. What I have received has black ends even though it is in a box marked HM001. It seems like I ordered a No.1 but what I got was a No.2 (you can take that whatever way you like ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orcadian Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I'm afraid the Dapol Stove went beyond a joke when the guards door has hinges down both sides! How quickly we've 'forgotten' that even the mighty Hornby did this with one of the well-respected and much commended Maunsell coaches - was it a First Class one, iirc? Please will someone wake me up again when we have managed to move on in life and just accept that at least one person somewhere in a decision-making position got things wrong? Oh how pleased I am that my mistakes, misjudgements and oversights that I must have made during my professional career of 40 years didn't involve producing a model railway vehicle! Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 With respect orcadian, which you did not extend to me, your remarks come over as breathtakingly smug. I didnt make the mistakes! If you are the owner of a Dapol Stove R and are pleased with your purchase..... Good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 How quickly we've 'forgotten' that even the mighty Hornby did this with one of the well-respected and much commended Maunsell coaches - was it a First Class one, iirc? Please will someone wake me up again when we have managed to move on in life and just accept that at least one person somewhere in a decision-making position got things wrong? Oh how pleased I am that my mistakes, misjudgements and oversights that I must have made during my professional career of 40 years didn't involve producing a model railway vehicle! Richard I don't think the criticism aimed at the Stove R is unjust, frankly. Putting hinges on both sides of a door is clearly wrong, and yes, I do remember Hornby being rightly criticized for this same mistake with the Maunsell. Not everything can be perfect out of the box, and certainly there is the benefit of hindsight. But putting hinges on both sides of a door is not just a mistake: it is a failing of the model. Of course there's a line that must not be crossed, but all I see in this thread are entirely accurate observations - call it constructive criticism if you will - of a product which has not lived up to the (rightly, high) standards of its peers, let alone its customers. This is a first attempt by a magazine in the UK to produce a unique bespoke product, and on this occasion, has mixed results. All feedback should be (and most likely, is) gratefully received by the parties concerned, because it means they can move on and do better next time. If the suggestion is that the thread's posts have been of a distinctly unsavory nature, then I must disagree quite pointedly as I don't think anyone in this thread has taken it further than pointing out the errors and how to fix them. EDIT: Though I must add (after a some information has come to light), that I would not condone or support any criticism of the product which is derogatory in any way to the companies involved or the individuals in charge of the product. HM and Dapol made a "first" - made some mistakes - and will learn from them. I hope it's not the last they do together, as I feel there is scope for a better overall product and one which again, will sell out. I might add, the Stove R, despite its failings, is still a better model than many of the modelling community make, myself included! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted February 1, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2011 The LMS Stove R which I ordered was supposed to be maroon (leaving out the particular shade) with maroon ends. What I have received has black ends even though it is in a box marked HM001. It seems like I ordered a No.1 but what I got was a No.2 (you can take that whatever way you like ). I was discussing this with Ian Allen at the weekend and it appears that there has been a further issue with the supply and box labelling of the LMS versions. I understand that ian Allen are discussing with Dapol how to rectify the issue as it only came to light after the first batch of HM001's were despatched (bearing in mind they are currently, in good faith, trying to despatch orders as quickly as they can). In short the HM001 -LMS with marron ends have been incorrectly supplied from the factory with black ends, I would suggest that anyone receiving such, that is not happy to keep the black ended model contact Ian Allen (note: not the Hornby Magazine office, as they are not, nor were ever dealing with the logistics of taking orders or despatch) to arrange replacement. Also the batch of HM002's - LMS with black ends have been suplied in boxes incorrectly stating marron ends but the model and all other details are actually correct! I was also informed that only orders received prior to the start of December are currently being process and monies banked etc. All orders received after that time are being processed as soon as possible. This explains why some members of the forum who ordered after approximatly the start of December and or at Warley will not yet have seen payment taken or goods despatched. I hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted February 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2011 Given that Ian Allan are hardly a 'fly by night' outfit it seems strange that the order fulfillment process is proving somewhat painful. In terms of this latest challenge, in my personal experience the only way to make sure exactly the right product is coming off a production line in the Far East is to be there in person at the time and check everything on the first few 100%. :-/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Given that Ian Allan are hardly a 'fly by night' outfit it seems strange that the order fulfillment process is proving somewhat painful. In terms of this latest challenge, in my personal experience the only way to make sure exactly the right product is coming off a production line in the Far East is to be there in person at the time and check everything on the first few 100%. :-/ Thats one of the problems when production takes place so far away. The Chinese aren't so cheap anymore so maybe production will move to someplace nearer home. I know many places in the British Isles would welcome the jobs. It seems according to the Dapol site they now have a 3rd factory doing production in China so maybe delays are a thing of the past This information was on their site here http://www.Dapol.co.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2011 Given that Ian Allan are hardly a 'fly by night' outfit it seems strange that the order fulfillment process is proving somewhat painful. In terms of this latest challenge, in my personal experience the only way to make sure exactly the right product is coming off a production line in the Far East is to be there in person at the time and check everything on the first few 100%. :-/ Let's not forget that this is the first time the Ian Allan organisation have had to deal with something like this so they are facing a learning curve - before having to deal with the problems presented by the products. As far as 'supervision' of production is concerned we can but presume that the Chinese made what they were asked to make (and no doubt to the price to which they were told to make it) using the information which they were given. It's not the first time Dapol NPCCS has appeared with stupid errors (the Fruit D being the example) and if the Stove R came from the same factory or design team there was clearly no lesson learnt from the past - which is a bit worrying, and we must hope it doesn't happen again.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted February 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2011 Let's not forget that this is the first time the Ian Allan organisation have had to deal with something like this so they are facing a learning curve - before having to deal with the problems presented by the products.[/i] I agree this is probably their first commissioned railway model, but they're a company with a multi-million pound turnover, a number of physical shops and a big mail order business, and they manage hundreds if not thousands of book titles. I don't see why a few hundred or maybe thousand orders for this model should cause issues, which they obviously have to some degree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Please will someone wake me up again when we have managed to move on in life and just accept that at least one person somewhere in a decision-making position got things wrong? I'm with Coach and S.A.C. here, the 'holier than thou' attitude is off the mark here IMHO. The sort of folk posting negatively in this thread arent typically those who expect perfection, and this isnt just one simple 'mistake'. It's a series of errors, poor judgements and good old-fashioned cockups, compounded by the sort of slackness in the ordering process that makes the average call centre look good. Don't go there chaps, please ..... If you mean the possibility of Roger revisiting his Stove project Ian, then I for one would support it. TBH, I thought at the time of the last ruck that he'd overreacted to the announcement of the Dapol/HM model, but with hindsight it looks like he was justified in his concerns. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The sort of folk posting negatively in this thread arent typically those who expect perfection, and this isnt just one simple 'mistake'. It's a series of errors, poor judgements and good old-fashioned cockups, compounded by the sort of slackness in the ordering process that makes the average call centre look good. I haven't seen any negative postings per se, but critiques of what is perceived to be wrong - having read comments on other fora re. the same subject, the reactions are also varied and in some instances rather strange, such as "replace 12mm wheels with 14mm does the trick and that's all that needs to be done" is one I've come across - well, if it were that simple and people are happy, then OK (for them) - it makes you wonder if the 12mm to 14mm swap has actually been effected and tested... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I haven't seen any negative postings per se, but critiques of what is perceived to be wrong - Semantics Dil, and already discussed here - I was trying to use the word most favoured by the apologists (intentions totally TIC, BTW) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Semantics Dil, and already discussed here - I was trying to use the word most favoured by the apologists (intentions totally TIC, BTW) Ah so, so long ago, thought the world had moved on since then... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I agree this is probably their first commissioned railway model, but they're a company with a multi-million pound turnover, a number of physical shops and a big mail order business, and they manage hundreds if not thousands of book titles. I don't see why a few hundred or maybe thousand orders for this model should cause issues, which they obviously have to some degree. Hi, I had a few questions of my own when I spoke to Paul of IA when we visited the Southampton show. He politely explained that the company had not envisaged the problems that had been encountered and were not fully prepared for the response from the paying public. The other problems were late deliveries from their supplier and the split in human resources between their two sites. The company had made a mistake and was learning the lesson therefore I prefer to be patient and will trust his assurances. The Crimson and Blue versions are available but there are shortages of the maroon version due to the wrong coloured ends (not sure what he meant) but the team (two ladies) are picking through the lists and sending out the models as quickly as possible. I hope to receive my crimson model within the next couple of weeks. I hope that this explains some of the problems, I was pleased to be provided with a frank and full explanation by a senior member of the IA staff, maybe it will answer some of our doubts. DesA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted February 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2011 This will be my only words in this subject because I am planning a new topic about where I think I am going in 2011. When we were talking about the Stove R prototype it struck me that there was a great deal of detail differences between the early build and the late build, almost enough for two models. Had I produced my kit it would have been the early build to make it suitable for the widest period. It would certainly have the earlier corridor conector. So I can reply that I do not see the production of a kit beyond the bounds of possibility. The subject of where we go now will be in another thread now I am getting to grips with my depression, but I have got to finish the Thompson 6 wheeler. We'll see how you like it with my simplistic underframe and take it from there. As always trying to keep the dream alive. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted February 2, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2011 I agree this is probably their first commissioned railway model, but they're a company with a multi-million pound turnover, a number of physical shops and a big mail order business, and they manage hundreds if not thousands of book titles. I don't see why a few hundred or maybe thousand orders for this model should cause issues, which they obviously have to some degree. Well I can't comment on your perceived size of IA as a business but as for the number of orders for the Stove R it is in fact a few thousand orders rather than a few hundred, being handled as mentioned by someone in a post above by the usual mail order staff of two ladies! Order processing of course has also been somewhat affected by the late deliveries of products from the manufacturer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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