Exhibition layout operating - Front or Rear

[37114]

I have done a quick search and not found a thread on this, apologies to the Mods if I have missed it:

 

I am in the process of planning my next 4mm exhibition layout which will be Fiddle yard to terminus style of operation and one of many quandaries is do I go for Front or rear operated? My preference is for front operated as the layout design lends itself to being front operated, and the layout will be only 15" wide with an 8ft long scenic section. I also feel being present at the front allows better engagement with the public, something which I enjoy. My reservations are I use 3 link couplings on stock which are fiddly and thus will obscure the view while I couple/uncouple.

 

I am interested therefore in your experiences as both viewers and operators before I may up my mind. Thanks.

 

 

[beast66606]

Funny you should mention this, we've had the same discussion recently for our new layout.

 

Generally I am a "from the back" man, we have a signalman at the front to chat with people as required but I prefer the operating to be from behind the layout, however our planned American "plank" (20' X 4') will probably be operated from the front, or maybe both again (We used to be indecisive, now we aren't sure)

 

I do think care must be taken to avoid obstructing too much when front operation is used, it can be annoying watching a layout with an operator moving back and forth in your eye line.

[PLD]

There were a couple of threads on the old Forum:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4545&hilit=+front+operator

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=48227&hilit=+front+operator

 

The general conclusion was that "it depends on the design of the layout and how you operate it". Walking up and down in front of the audience was generally frowned upon (so need autocouplings or employ a 'shunter' behind the layout), but having one or more member of the team 'accessible' was a good thing if it can be done unobtrusively...

[grahame]

The general conclusion was that "it depends on the design of the layout and how you operate it". Walking up and down in front of the audience was generally frowned upon

 

Yep, that can be very annoying for the 'public', and so too can be the sitting at controls facing the layout with your back to the audience and blocking a large chunk of the view - as I saw on a small narrow gauge layout at a show once.

 

But basically, so long as the audience's view isn't obstructed and you've time to answer questions (not ignore people because you're too busy fiddling), then front or back operation is not a problem and it's up to the builder/owner.

 

G.

[Kenton]

It depends on you - and in particular how comfortable you are interacting with the audience.

 

I have seen good and bad operator interaction and that usually means pro-action.

If you are able to multi task and strike up a friendly interaction with the audience while continuing to multi-task keeping the layout in motion then you are a true entertainer and so is your layout so operate from the front.

 

If you are the opposite extreme - basically a grumpy old git and view the show as your chance to put up the layout purely for your meeting old friends/operators and that the public is an inconvenience to be tolerated and ignored then hide away behind a big backscene and don't clutter the gangway to the next layout.

 

But to be fair these are few and far between. Some operators are as welcoming and interactive from behind the layout as much as they would be from in front and with some layouts it just wouldn't be practical.

[Coombe Barton]

As a viewer i prefer people operating from the front -- I can see what they're doing. It also enable a complete backdrop rather then the backdrop plus disembodied head. Three link - no problem - it's a model.

 

But in the end it depends if you're showing the model and modelling process or a diorama that attempts to fool you into thinking it's real.

[Kris]

I operate from the front (but off to one side so that I am not obstructing the view of the main layout) for a couple of reasons.

- I can see where the train is on the layout and can observe it for any problems that may occur.

- I enjoy talking to people about the layout, why I built it the way that I have done etc. This has it's down side as some times I do get distracted and the same train might travel round more than once.

[Neil]

Front; an exhibition layout should be (and usually is) planned to present the audience with the A side, don't see why I shouldn't share in some of that. Operating from the back puts me in mind of being a puppeteer, the pleasure of being immersed in the scene is lost as one becomes too aware of the mechanics of putting on a performance.

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

On Hythe, we used to operate exclusively from the back, but now that we have extended it, the operation has moved to both front and back with 2 operators behind and one on the front. I prefer working from the front if the layout's scenic area is wide and it has a tall backscene (because you can't reach derailments from the back), but if it hasn't I'm not fussed.

 

But when we exhibited for the first time with a front operator a few things came to light:

 

1.) The public are more willing to talk to someone at the front

2.) It is much easier to talk to a member of the public when at the front

3.) A operator at the front means that you can look down the layout and did gives a bit of a deterrent for small fingures wanting to touch £100+ locos

 

I would say when operating from the front, you need either someone at the back / a lowish backscene or a highish chair to sit on because, as I found out, you can have, shall we say "untamed" members of the public (mostly 10-14 year olds) who walk upto your fiddle yard and starting playing around, so that's really the only hazard.

 

One rather strange situation I have on Hythe is that the operators are at the back of the layout, but the track diagram on the control box is if you are operating from the front i.e the opposite way round, it has fooled many many operators and something you have to watch out for if I ask you to operate!

 

Another operating position is end on, looking down the layout, I have seen this used on several layouts and at my club, we use this position on Hinton Parva and it works well, it doesn't block the publics view and it lets people talk to the operator.

 

Simon

[kipford]

If its end to end or Terminus to FY then from the front any time. My new home/exhibition layout operates from the front (why not have the best view as well) 3 of the layouts exhibited by club members are operated from the front and dittoour new end to end EM layout. Personally I enjoy the more intimate contact you get with the punters (they just have to accept a few more operator errors because you are to busy jawing ).

 

For roundy roundies then we find the inside is best.

 

Dave

[roundhouse]

I have recently modified one of my layouts to use DCC controlled turnouts and wireless control using iPods and Wi Throttle app etc. This now allows us to operate the layout either from the back or the front for the industrial section depending on the individual operators preference. Something worth considering if you are going down the Digital Command route.

[sixteen 12by 10s]

I have recently started to exhibit a layout again after a brake of some 17 years, I configured the controls, so it could be operated from ether the back or the front, I found both had there ins and outs.

From the back, you tend not to have much interaction with the public and hide behind the back scene. On a terminus to fiddle yard layout, it is possible to hide the off scene area with a screen.

From the front, you are with the paying public, and can easily hold a conversation, but you do get distracted. The fiddle yard needs to be accessible, for this reason, I have made the board, hiding the yard, so it can be hinged down.

Personally, I think at a “relaxed†exhibition, operate from the front, but have the option to disappear behind the back scene when things get busy. (or things go wrong! )

 

Gary

[Michael Delamar]

l like layouts to have high backscenes, with scenic breaks and fiddle yards covered so its a surprise to see the trains, ie your drawn in. and the high backscene helps against destractions from operators moving about in the background, especially if photos are taken of the layout from the front.

 

problem is it makes operating from the back hard work and makes an exhibiton tyring. also if your at the front and the fiddle yard is hidden you need an operator at the back.

 

I like operating from the front, if its a slow paced layout where you can interact, but a layout that needs a lot of concentration like Lime street has problems if your distracted.

 

what was the oo layout of the midland station through station? which was very high, eye level, had sound effects of birds tweeting. the operator had to stand on a chair to operate it.

[KevinWalsh]

Hi,

 

I don't know if this helps or not. Our Club "N" gauge (work in progress) layout is operated from both the front and back. The back operators control the up and down lines that run round the outside of the layout and the front of house operator controls the shunting yard in the middle of the layout. The shunting yard is operated by any children visiting the shows and the front of house operating does the uncoupling, operates the panel and answers any questions from the public and fellow modellers.

 

I've attached a short video of the layout operating at Brighton Modelworld this year, the arm doing the uncoupling, prodding and button pushing belongs to me, the train is controlled by a child.

 

Kev

 

 

for some reason the vid won't attach, if you're interested in it PM me an email address and I'll send it

[37114]

Thanks for all the replies guys, my current layout is rear operated, which is a necessity due to scenics in front of the fiddle yard but the next layout will have full width fiddle yard hence the opportunity to front operate. I think I will probably build in the option of both, and see how I get on. If it wasn't for my love of 3 links I would go for the front option without hesitation, my reservation is I will be needing to uncouple quite a bit hence would be walking in front of the viewers.

[James]

An operator at the front can work providing they don't block anyone's view. However an operator at the front must be a friendly person! A grumpy old git is bad for the hobby as a whole!

 

On layouts such as Widnes, the signaller, can really enhance the overall experience as it does add something to the whole thing.

 

Generally I am a "from the back" man

Bit too much information I feel...

[James]

what was the oo layout of the midland station through station? which was very high, eye level, had sound effects of birds tweeting. the operator had to stand on a chair to operate it.

It was in BRM and I remember it vividly at their first exhibtion at Donny - worked very well and really drew you in!

[newbryford]

An operator at the front can work providing they don't block anyone's view.

 

Echoing other comments above.

Nothing worse than an operator standing in front middle of the layout with his back to you and obscuring the view.

 

If you have to be at the front, at least be to the side.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Michael Delamar]

It was "Brockholes" ...very good it was too, though not Midland Railway..... Built by the L&Y and more or less still there.....

 

thanks very much

 

I couldnt remember the company, knew it was LM region

 

I really liked that layout, anyone got any pics of it?

[mudmagnet]

I like the idea of operating from the front, which is how I operate mine at home. The controller (NCE Powercab) plugs in front of the fiddle yard, so I can stand / sit there without obscuring the viewers from seeing the layout.

The points are operated from the hand set.

My only reservation is the couplings. I am currently using the standard tension locks, but will change to Spratt and Winkles, but involves digging up holes in the track to fit the magnets - a job that I have been putting off!

 

The other comment is that last time I exhibited the layout, my son took over operation (from the back using a Dynamis) and I was able to stand at the front chatting - this could be the same again next time! With the DCC socket at the front of the layout, if I was to operate from the rear then I would either have to run the cable under the the layout, thus restricting the movement / operable length or fit another socket at the rear, but means having another socket which is only used at exhibitions and does seem to be a waste.

[brightspark]

Hi Mudmagnet,

Instead of S&W couplers have you considered Alex Jacksons?

You can work these with DCC so no magnets in the track.

[kipford]

Mudmagnet

 

The other comment is that last time I exhibited the layout, my son took over operation (from the back using a Dynamis) and I was able to stand at the front chatting - this could be the same again next time!

 

I know where you are comming from! To get over this I have installed Big Bear (still fine tuning it) to allow some limit auto running either while I am shunting the yard or more probably gassing with the punters. I use an NCE power cab with the NCE USB interface connected to a notebook. Also gives me a cheap second throttle!

 

Regards

 

Dave

[mike morley]

The king of audience interaction is the Rev. Chris Burch, vicar and N Gauge modeller of Braunstone in Leicester.

He also offers a masterclass in why three-link couplings are not neccessarily a bad thing on an exhibiton layout.

 

I met him a year or two ago at the Sutton Coldfield exhibition, when he was helping Dave Tailby operate Saxlingham.

"On this layout we believe in audience participation." He stated smoothly and handed over the shunters pole to an Innocent Bystander. "Can you couple-up the guards van, please?" He requested.

Instantly the entire audience was transfixed. The Innocent Bystander's attention was concentrated entirely on The Task he had been assigned - as was everyone elses. They were all holding their breath, wanting to offer advice but aware that doing so might break the Innocent Bystander's concentration and make The Task even harder. Other than a dozen failed attempts to couple-up, I doubt if anything happened for the next ten minutes but there wasnt a person there who was even vaguely aware of that, so intent were they on the Innocent Bystander's quest to complete The Task.

Chris kept that up for half an hour or so before Dave returned to resume more conventional operation and I couldnt help noticing that the size of his audience promptly shrank.

 

Saxlingham - like all of Daves layouts - is operated from behind, but if you've got someone who can even approach Chris's level of audience rapport then operating from the front cannot be equalled.

[DaveB]

I operate both of my American switching layouts, Hoxie Harbor and Kuppla Yard from the front. It's a great way to interact with the paying audience, and also to get the young ones engaged in the hobby.

 

Having DCC sound there is no greater pleasure than seeing a tot's face when he presses a button to make a loud American deisel horn blast out!

 

I also let older lads and lasses try their hand at switching (keeping a careful finger on the emergency stop button!).

 

Who knows - interest generated at an exhibition may gain a convert for the hobby in future.

 

The only down side is that it's almost impossible to work a schedule and speak at the same time! ( I admit I can't multi-task!)

 

 

Having said that, my new exhibition layout, Lyndale Junction, will be operated from behind - i wonder if I will enjoy operating it as much - time will tell.

[mudmagnet]

Hi Mudmagnet,

Instead of S&W couplers have you considered Alex Jacksons?

You can work these with DCC so no magnets in the track.

 

Hi brightspark

 

Thanks for input. I looked at AJ's a few months ago, but not seen anything about DCC operation though.