Heljan Beyer garratt

[Stevelewis]

As noted by an earlier poster, when we actually had steam locos in routine service, details of the totem were the last thing I would have been looking at. I am just too young to have seen and remember a Garratt operating in the UK, but am quite certain that had I seen this locomotive equivalent to the 'pushmepullyou', the engine unit at each end would have taken up all my attention, and then some.

 

Regarding the price point, it seems well judged to me. It's the equivalent of two medium sized outside gear tank engines, with a detailed body piece with no running gear to link them. There are savings in packaging and distribution, in that it isn't shipped as three separate pieces, but as a single unit.

 

...Hit the 'go' button by accident...

 

Comparing the price to the (Heljan) O2 isn't very helpful. That model will have been planned in the context of future operational conditions, with allowance made for anticipated increases in labour, materials and other costs. If it is to the same standard as the Garratt that's still good value for anyone wanting an OO RTR model of the class, which is what matters most.

The  price  point  may  seem to  be  well judged  from  the  point  of  view  of  gaining  sales  BUT,  is  there  enough  there  to  ensure  that  construction  in  the  factory  is  not 'rushed'  so  to  speak  ( ie  is  there  enough left  to  pay  the  workers)

[Grovenor]

was  there  not  some  discussion  years  ago  re  the  facing  of  the  Lion on the  BR  Crests?

 

Something  to  do  with  the  Heraldic  rules  which  only  allowed in theory  one  crest ie  left  facing?

 

Must  admit  I did not  take  much notice  at  the  tiime, but  maybe  someone  can  throw  some  light on  this?

This problem with the College of Heralds was only in relation to the late (1957) crest, the early crest as on the Garratts was not affected and was supplied in handed pairs so it could face forward on both sides.

Keith

[Colin_McLeod]

From the Phoenix/Precision paints/transfer web page:

 

 

British Railways

Post 1956 Locomotive Crest.

Right Facing verses Left Facing Lion.

When the British Transport Commision applied to the College of Heralds for an Heraldic Device or Coat of Arms, they were joining a very small group of British Railway Companies to ever have held such.

The actual part of the Locomotive crest that is the heraldic device is the Lion sitting in the Crown holding the Wheel, as shown above, and it is this design that according to the College rules that cannot be changed.

When British Railways were handed the designs for the crests from the British Transport Commision they commissioned the production of transfers for application to both locomotives and coaching stock.

As with the Pre 1956 design of crest the locomotive transfers were produced with both right and left facing lions, so that when applied to the tender or tanks of a locomotive the lion would always face forward.

Whilst the exact time frame is unknown, someone from the College of Heralds spotted the right facing crest and a representation was made to the British Transport Commision to the effect that they were in breach of their agreement with the College and that they were either to stop using the right facing crest or to petition for another Heraldic Device with the Lion facing right.

As petitioning for another Device would have required the outlay of another, not inconsiderable, sum of money the British Transport Commision declined to petition and instructed British Railways to stop using and to remove all of the offending crests. In some cases it took up to eighteen months for the removal of said crests.

Transfers.

Initially Precision Transfers did not produce the short lived and incorrect right facing crest, However, from January 2009 as we produce new production of the correct left facing crest we will also be producing small quantities of the right facing crest.

[Pete the Elaner]

I think it might be necessary to ask for a replacement, sadly.  The broken rod under the smokebox is apparent in the shop website pics too, I think it is a brake rigging rod?

 

The pony brakes never existed on the prototypes after about 1935  possibly earlier, so they can be safely removed on most versions.

 

A pity about a warped chassis,  not an axle with swarf or something?

 

My sympathies.

Thanks for the advice. I'll get in touch with Hattons & ask politely if they can arrange a replacement.

[robmcg]

It's a rather murky morning and a rather grotty 47971 has completed it's running in and is ready to take over it's first service train:

 

GarrattHandOver-01.jpg

 

GarrattHandOver-02.jpg

 

.....maybe 4978 is off to get a repaint into BR livery....wonder which way the lions will be facing?.......

 

Keith

 

Thankyou, we cannot have too many pics of these engines, especially ones which run well.

 

My impatience is getting the better of me, I am tempted to buy another current version to go with my part-weathered LMS fixed-bunker and early BR 47995.

Perhaps the pristine LMS 7983, or maybe BR model 47992 (crest, small numbers)  or part-weathered BR 47971 (crest, large numbers) to suffer my weathering methods of mostly matt black paint, but some rust and scale, especially around the ashpan. 

 

Can a man suffer a likely three-week wait for a factory heavy-weathered version? Can my wallet suffer not waiting?  Who said model railways were boring? 

 

At the moment the LMS 7983 has the running because it is in the form it spent more time in than any other number series, and there appear to be less photos of them in the 1938-48 era when they probably did their best work. There is also a nice picture of 7983 newly shopped outside Crewe's 10 Shop in 1938 in pristine condition on p70 of Irwell's Book of the LM Garratts.

 

On the other hand the BR versions cover a time when I have actual experience of steam railways, if not Garratts themselves (one, the last in BR work, 47996, was pictured in my 1958 'Observers' book).

 

Rob

 

edit; here in any event is a photo-edited version of part-weathered BR 47971... which I have just ordered.

 

Edited July 5, 2014 by robmcg

[dandg]

On the other hand the BR versions cover a time when I have actual experience of steam railways, if not Garratts themselves (one, the last in BR work, 47996, was pictured in my 1958 'Observers' book).

 

According to several sources, e.g. The Book of the LM Garratts, 47994 was the last to be withdrawn on 29/3/58. 47996 lasted until 9/6/56.

[cbeagleowner]

Fitted the decoder and ran mine this morning. The running is very quiet and smooth - I'm very impressed. However, it doesn't like the code 100 single slip except at very low speed, though it's got a bit better the number of times it's gone through it. Interesting to see it next to the 9F!

[Dan Hamblin]

I've run in 4994 now and tested it with a load (23 wagons and 6 Gresley suburban coaches) around my small layout, so it straddles two sets of second radius curves on the inner loop. Performance is excellent, nice smooth control, and the wheels don't appear to slip at all.

 

Now for a 'what if' - 47994 survived into preservation, kitted out with air brakes and all the other equipment for main line running in the 21st century. Occasional use by one of the freight operating companies on heavy infrastructure and container trains...

 

Regards,

 

Dan

[Brian Hawkins]

I'm still in the process of running in 266203, 266204, 266210 and 266212, last week i made a visit to Hattons to return 266210 after a motor seized up and i must say the staff were absolutely superb, nothing was to much trouble and they could not apologise enough, after test running the replacement model i left the shop very satisfied.

I'm now waiting for the final batch to be released, 266208, 266209 and 266211, i believe the two heavily weatherd versions will soon sell out when released, so I'm pleased I have pre-ordered these, now, as the Garratts have appeared to have been very popular and so far sold well, i wonder if Heljan will produce the LNER U1 2-8-0+0-8-2 in the near future ? I know there was only one U1 but I would certainly be interested if it was produced, after all you can never have enough Garratts can you !

[Brian Hawkins]

I have just found this very short film of LNER U1 2395 2-8-0+0-8-2

 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3FvyLkycSyM

[Nelson Jackson]

That's fantastic, nice find, isn't that the Stockton and Darlington anniversary?

[Brian Hawkins]

It may well be Nelson, but I'm very unsure if it is the Stockton and Darlington anniversary, perhaps other members may know more about this very rare film.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Brian Hawkins

[250BOB]

I'm still in the process of running in 266203, 266204, 266210 and 266212, last week i made a visit to Hattons to return 266210 after a motor seized up and i must say the staff were absolutely superb, nothing was to much trouble and they could not apologise enough, after test running the replacement model i left the shop very satisfied.

I'm now waiting for the final batch to be released, 266208, 266209 and 266211, i believe the two heavily weatherd versions will soon sell out when released, so I'm pleased I have pre-ordered these, now, as the Garratts have appeared to have been very popular and so far sold well, i wonder if Heljan will produce the LNER U1 2-8-0+0-8-2 in the near future ? I know there was only one U1 but I would certainly be interested if it was produced, after all you can never have enough Garratts can you !

 

Flippin eck Brian.............so thats seven versions you are getting.????  Thats £1400.........if I was to do that, it would be definitley through the "nothing to declare" channel when I got home.

 

No wonder Hattons treated you well........I hope they got you a cup of tea and slice of cake when you visited.

 

If you dont mind me saying...thats a lot of Garratts.....are you intending to have these on your layout all at the same time, or will you have some as static exhibits.

Edited July 5, 2014 by 250BOB

[Market65]

Hi, I think that the U1 is appearing in the Stockton and Darlington anniversary, for it is carrying No 42 at the front - the 42nd exhibit. It had been finished just in time for that anniversary on 1st July, 1925. It was in workshop grey, after the anniversary, it was repainted in black. In the film it is fairly clearly in grey not black. Also note the people on the trackside as well, which ties in with that anniversary. I hope that this might be of some help.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[robmcg]

According to several sources, e.g. The Book of the LM Garratts, 47994 was the last to be withdrawn on 29/3/58. 47996 lasted until 9/6/56.

 

Ah yes, a mental glitch in my memory there, thanks for the correction.

 

Rob

[robmcg]

....

 

No wonder Hattons treated you well........I hope they got you a cup of tea and slice of cake when you visited.

 

If you dont mind me saying...thats a lot of Garratts.....are you intending to have these on your layout all at the same time, or will you have some as static exhibits.

 

Perfectly normal and acceptable , I have two Garratts, another en route and two (heavily weathered) pre-ordered. The price comes to, by comparison, not a lot of classic car racing or some other 'normal' hobby...it would barely cover tyres for a MkII Jag

 

I say congratulations to Heljan and particularly Hattons.  If there are second third and more batches in the future, it's possible that prices will have to rise, so they may keep good value anyway.

 

Mine live in their original boxes and can be lifted out for photography or running when desired. I do like having the several versions I have chosen;

LMS fixed bunker, early BR (2 versions) and heavily weathered BR (2 versions). I may yet buy a pristine LMS 7-series.

 

I guess that makes me more of a collector than layout operator but each to their own.

[robmcg]

I've run in 4994 now and tested it with a load (23 wagons and 6 Gresley suburban coaches) around my small layout, so it straddles two sets of second radius curves on the inner loop. Performance is excellent, nice smooth control, and the wheels don't appear to slip at all.

 

Now for a 'what if' - 47994 survived into preservation, kitted out with air brakes and all the other equipment for main line running in the 21st century. Occasional use by one of the freight operating companies on heavy infrastructure and container trains...

 

Regards,

 

Dan

 

With bottom-feed lubricant to bearings and long-travel valves, it might even have been a half-decent engine...   but still the lack of suitable sheds and servicing arrangements in LMS and BR days would have had most railwaymen 'agin'

[250BOB]

Perfectly normal and acceptable , I have two Garratts, another en route and two (heavily weathered) pre-ordered. The price comes to, by comparison, not a lot of classic car racing or some other 'normal' hobby...it would barely cover tyres for a MkII Jag

 

I say congratulations to Heljan and particularly Hattons.  If there are second third and more batches in the future, it's possible that prices will have to rise, so they may keep good value anyway.

 

Mine live in their original boxes and can be lifted out for photography or running when desired. I do like having the several versions I have chosen;

LMS fixed bunker, early BR (2 versions) and heavily weathered BR (2 versions). I may yet buy a pristine LMS 7-series.

 

I guess that makes me more of a collector than layout operator but each to their own.

 

Hi Rob, 

I agree with your "acceptable" comment.....not so sure about the "normal" bit.  But I have never been a collector of model trains, I buy them to play with......and the collector market is no doubt very strong, but not my bag.

However, I completely understand the desire to have several versions of this quite unique locomotive....and a big thanks to hattons and Heljan for producing it......but at £200 a go, more than one model is likely to be out of reach for many.

Bob

[Colin_McLeod]

Flippin eck Brian.............so thats seven versions you are getting.????  Thats £1400.........if I was to do that, it would be definitley through the "nothing to declare" channel when I got home.

 

No wonder Hattons treated you well........I hope they got you a cup of tea and slice of cake when you visited.

 

If you dont mind me saying...thats a lot of Garratts.....are you intending to have these on your layout all at the same time, or will you have some as static exhibits.

 

Wait until you see his order for coal wagons!!!  How many would he need?  Say five locomotives in action and two on shed. At 80 locos per train I make that 400 wagons being hauled, plus perhaps another  240 being loaded/unloaded/waiting their turn.

 

I'd love to attend one of Brian's running sessions to see that lot.

[250BOB]

Wait until you see his order for coal wagons!!!  How many would he need?  Say five locomotives in action and two on shed. At 80 locos per train I make that 400 wagons being hauled, plus perhaps another  240 being loaded/unloaded/waiting their turn.

 

I'd love to attend one of Brian's running sessions to see that lot.

 

Now let me see......400 wagons at a conservative £10 each........wow......£4000 pounds worth of coal wagons.

[Colin_McLeod]

Then you have to buy the coal.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Colin_McLeod

[toboldlygo]

Perfectly normal and acceptable , I have two Garratts, another en route and two (heavily weathered) pre-ordered. The price comes to, by comparison, not a lot of classic car racing or some other 'normal' hobby...it would barely cover tyres for a MkII Jag

 

Having just replaced all 4 tyres on the XJ8 it would be very close to the cost of 2 Garratts

Edited July 6, 2014 by toboldlygo

[Brian Hawkins]

Flippin eck Brian.............so thats seven versions you are getting.????  Thats £1400.........if I was to do that, it would be definitley through the "nothing to declare" channel when I got home.

 

No wonder Hattons treated you well........I hope they got you a cup of tea and slice of cake when you visited.

 

If you dont mind me saying...thats a lot of Garratts.....are you intending to have these on your layout all at the same time, or will you have some as static exhibits.

Hi 250BOB,

Actually I have nine versions at present, I had no intention of collecting all twelve when they were first announced but, I thought i would just get the one example with a standard bunker and one with a revolving bunker, however, on receiving my first Garratt, 266201 LMS 4970 and having Olivia's sound fitted and having it superbly weathered by Steve Johnson of Grimy Times I became hooked on these superb models, I have run this loco so much I think its travelled to the moon and back already !

My layout is approximately 11 x 7 and I have a 12 road steam shed with a Fleishmann Ho turntable, unfortunately the Garratts are to long to fit on the table so I cannot have any on display "On Shed".

I only run two Garratts at anyone time but also have a couple a couple of other examples standing spare somwhere on the layout.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Brian Hawkins

[Brian Hawkins]

Wait until you see his order for coal wagons!!!  How many would he need?  Say five locomotives in action and two on shed. At 80 locos per train I make that 400 wagons being hauled, plus perhaps another  240 being loaded/unloaded/waiting their turn.

 

I'd love to attend one of Brian's running sessions to see that lot.

Hi Colin,

I never thought about that ! seriously, my layout is nowhere near large enough to run a train of 50 - 60 coal wagons, I may get a way with around 35 - 40, I have 20 16T coal wagons in my collection at present so I need a few more yet, actually a Garratt headed coal train of 20 wagons looks pretty good in my eyes.

[250BOB]

Hi 250BOB,

Actually I have nine versions at present, I had no intention of collecting all twelve when they were first announced but, I thought i would just get the one example with a standard bunker and one with a revolving bunker, however, on receiving my first Garratt, 266201 LMS 4970 and having Olivia's sound fitted and having it superbly weathered by Steve Johnson of Grimy Times I became hooked on these superb models, I have run this loco so much I think its travelled to the moon and back already !

My layout is approximately 11 x 7 and I have a 12 road steam shed with a Fleishmann Ho turntable, unfortunately the Garratts are to long to fit on the table so I cannot have any on display "On Shed".

I only run two Garratts at anyone time but also have a couple a couple of other examples standing spare somwhere on the layout.

 

Good effort Brian............I know secretly that most of us would maybe like more Garratts.  

 

You havent sound fitted all of them have you....I shall have to revise my figures if you have..!!!!

 

We all spend our money in different ways.....I forget how much I used to throw at motorcycle racing....considerably more than 9 Garratts though.

 

Enjoy the models.......I'm sure you will.

 

Bob.