robmcg Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Indeed the scene described above as an air of authenticity about it. Commercial sensitivity you know... I doubt that much profit would be generated by this model if lots of time (=money?) was spent on detail changes like not fitting pony truck brakes.. maybe most or all were manufactured and assembled in one or two runs (fixed bunker 2000, rotary bunker 5000... halve or double that as desired) and delays have been in set-up for paint runs. Just guessing. And very curious as to future production runs, price and so on. Probably stay at £199 with tooling being wholly or partially paid-for, but the accounting principles used vary between manufacturers, and who knows which versions will remain popular? One could speculate that the market is quite limited by the size of the models and attendant limitations on running realistic trains, although for me they look great even standing still. Certainly future production is going to cost more to assemble and ship. Maybe Hattons have enough faulty versions to supply spares forever. Better have a quiet cuppa.... and think of new ways to depict the early 50s atmosphere. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Like this further attempt to recall the days of collieries, smoke, and steam, I bought currently-available BR-era pristine 47992 and have proceeded to weather it by editing this photo. It is interesting to add grime here and there, water stains and so on. I look forward to the 'official' heavily-weathered versions which cannot come soon enough... The scene is somewhat romanticised, or a driver showing off for the camera, sanders on, dragging 80 or so loaded coal wagons onto the Midland main line off an adversely-graded siding. Well, that's my excuse anyway. Edited July 11, 2014 by robmcg 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger5591 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Ivan Can you confim this solution for wandering pony trucks works please, once you have tried it please? I have the same problem. I tried releasing the screw thast holds the pony truck on, but that didn/t make any difference. Brian Mine arrived yesterday and also had a problem with one of the bogies constantly derailing. After a bit of investigation I found that one of the guard irons was too long - it was actually touching the surface of the rail. I snipped it back a bit and have had no problems since. It also has some small parts not glued on straight, a skewed hand rail and one footstep missing its step, but all fixable and it runs very well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I have to agree with ROBMCG, the fact is this locomotive has been built to a price, my intuition and the fact I have been part of an R & D team suggests a conversation went something like this.... Hattons rep ' look guys I love your pickled herrings and strong beer however w need to keep the price below £200 otherwise we will not sell it in sufficient numbers to make the tooling worthwhile'. Heljan rep ( I won't attempt the accent ) ' the problem is with everything you want and at that detail it will have to retail at £250 to £275' Hattons rep, ' OK lets drop the rotating coal hopper, lose some of the detail and have it fitted out at sourse rather than in your workshops.' Sorry tongue in cheek but I bet its not far off. Don't also forget the time lag between announcing it and it finally being produced. All sorts of things have effected the Chinese factories since then, not to mention fluctuations in the exchange rate. I suspect you can add 'Oh No! - we have announced it at £200 and taken the cash. We cannot change it to the 'correct' price now!' from the Hattons rep. I don't think there will be any further production runs after this lot are sold. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Mine was delivered yesterday. Can anyone tell me if the cab roof is complete or have I something missing? There are 2 large square hole, which suggest there should be some form of ventilator fixed in them. Any pics? If they are missing, I'm of a mind to fabricate something rather than send it back, so a picture would help. Stewart 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ive595 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Not sure mine are 2 large holes, so assumed that was it. Ivan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Hawkins Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Hi Stewart, the cab roof is complete, the models are manufactured as such, no need to return the loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 The model is represented with the roof hatches open which slid sideways rather than the more normal fore and aft movement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 The model is represented with the roof hatches open which slid sideways rather than the more normal fore and aft movement. Yay, the original fore and aft roof hatches kept sliding open at 125mph hence the alteration..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Mine was delivered yesterday. Can anyone tell me if the cab roof is complete or have I something missing? There are 2 large square hole, which suggest there should be some form of ventilator fixed in them. Any pics? If they are missing, I'm of a mind to fabricate something rather than send it back, so a picture would help. Stewart The model comes with two large holes. The prototype had 2 horizontal sliding sections for each hole, quite thin, and the holes were usually open, it being a warm cab. In this view note the front water filler cap is missing. Note also the amount of coal spilled. Photo section from Irwell book of LM Garratts P.23. Edited July 11, 2014 by robmcg 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Don't also forget the time lag between announcing it and it finally being produced. All sorts of things have effected the Chinese factories since then, not to mention fluctuations in the exchange rate. I suspect you can add 'Oh No! - we have announced it at £200 and taken the cash. We cannot change it to the 'correct' price now!' from the Hattons rep. I don't think there will be any further production runs after this lot are sold. Tony That's my feeling too. It was a brave move by Hattons. It explains the apparent lack of 'hands-on' for minor production run changes. When the current models show 'less than 10 in stock' then 'limited stocks but can be ordered for immediate delivery' or whatever the usual is for 1-4 in stock, I doubt they will last long. I'd love to know what percentage of sales have minor issues or major faults. I have bought two extra versions, safe and secure in the knowledge that my £199 investments will in five years be worth, maybe, £201, or £100, if in five years there is anyone left who can recall such steam engines in the real world... I will also take some photos of the real models without editing when the heavily weathered versions arrive, as per the first rotary bunker versions about two months ago, warts and all. Edited July 12, 2014 by robmcg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Hawkins Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Thanks for posting the aerial view of the Garratt Rob, this is the first time I have seen a Garratt from above, interesting to see the coal spillage, i'll incorporate this when I get them weathered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Thanks for everyone's reply re: the cab roof. I've now bit the bullet & started work on the loco, no pics (yet - maybe later?) I'm afraid. I had originally reserved 47981 in heavy weatehered finish, as I have photographic proof of that loco in the Pterborough/Whittlesey area, and well, was any BG really clean?. However I cancelled the order a long time ago; recently having changed my mind again, I last week re-ordered but for a pristine 47992 instead. With all due credit to Hattons, the delivery was fantastic. I am a previous account customer of Hattons, but due to home circumstances, couldn't gaurantee a signed for delivery, so rang the order in. The address postcode came up as Network Rail Waterloo (!) for my works address, which is certainly wrong, though we are buried underneath the taxi road , next door to the W&C depot. Postie found it ok though. Just to complicate matters, I added a temporary new email, my 'emergency' Hotmail account, as I can't access the btinternet one at work. All worked 100%, well done Hattons. Anyway after checking the loco over, I found it ran beautifully, apart from one minor point. Under the centre section, there is a piece of brake rigging(?) which is basically a twist of wire; one end was pointing down and caught on the track sometimes. Soon sorted that, along with the loose filler cap as normal. I then took the loco apart as much as possible. This was to allow me to respray it with Railmatch Weathered Black, a colour I prefer for most black locos. Before this however, I removed the last two digits of each number, leaving the remainder in the hope they would show a faint outline through the spray, to aid positioning for renumbering. A good soak in meths, and scraping with a cocktail stick did eventually shift them. Before re-assembly I decided to simplify the wiring so there wasn't so many wires underneath. I actually removed all lights (external and the internal led's), along with the speaker, and all dcc wiring. This just left 2 wires from the pickups to the motor for each bogie, and a pair connecting the bogies together. Much tidier. I'm now in the throes of fitting it back together, then the detail bits go on along with new headlights (dummy) at one end (H class goods). Then some heavy weathering. Even in plain Weathered Black she looks much better. More soon. Stewart 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) Thanks Stewart, I think the plain all-over Railmatch weathered black or something very close will be my choice for weathering one or two of my models, going by the many b+w pics in Irwell Press' 'Book of the LM Garratts' the predominant colour of the Garratts was working grime/soot and some rust and scale, a few had inexplicably shiny smokeboxes, and some, most in fact, had visible numbers, I suspect few were ever actually cleaned. Usual scale and rust here and there, sometimes leaking tanks, I think you could get away with almost anything but my feeling is that the overall flat grime was the general 'look'. Suited the feel of the age, really, with goods engines rarely cleaned, except when repaired/overhauled/numbers made visible at times. I just read MRE reaction to the quality of these models and there seems to be a general feeling that details are a bit sloppy here and there but most run well, it's just loose or poor assembly which annoys. Roll on Heljan's version of 'heavy weathering'. It won't matter if our own versions are different because no two working steam engines were ever the same. Here for instance is my weathering effect by photo-editing alone on the LMS 7983 version I bought a week ago. Edited July 13, 2014 by robmcg 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 ............... a few had inexplicably shiny smokeboxes,........................ They would be shed repaints, where the smokebox had previously got red hot and blistered the paintwork, so needed re-painting before rust set in. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) Thanks for that Tony. As mentioned in a couple of previous posts there is a suspicion that the lightly-weathered version currently available 47971 in BR 1950-55 form has slightly less weathering than the earlier two LMS fixed bunker and early BR 47995. Here are two pics of 47971 straight out of the box (filler cap placed in position... was on top of front tank). Slight mods to background and foreground, nothing done to the model at all. ..and with a few liberties taken, brakes removed, 3-link coupling added, rods darkened, and very little else, I think we have a very fine model for £199. Edited July 14, 2014 by robmcg 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted July 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2014 Can anyone recommend a suitable DCC chip for these beasts? I stuck a standard Lenz into mine and after a couple of hours one of the loco's motors (at the front) gave up the ghost. I thought it was a motor issue as the rear motor was still working correctly. However, I switched it back to DC to test before returning it to Hattons and it ran perfectly. So it looks like a chip issue (or possibly a PCB issue?) I recalled that before the loco failed the chip wasnt responding to my commands (slowing down, speeding up etc.) as quick as it should too. just wondering what experiences people were having when it came to DCC and decoders that work well with them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) While I cannot help with the DCC chip question, I can announce that there is a rearward-facing lion on the crest of 47971... which I suspect fractionally too large. I am fiddling with more pictures, and might fix this, as well as imminent LMS pics where the models do not have this vexing issue! edit; hey presto, who said modelling was difficult? I have changed the reflections on the bunker and a few other things. Wouldn't it have been nice if Hattons could have got such as three-link couplings, removed the pony-truck brakes, and done a little more weathering and motion-blackening? It still adds up to a phenomenal model, when done in this way. Also I hope readers will bear with me as I gradually put together photos of my increasingly large collection of Garratts, it is very enjoyable for me, redolent as they are of the 30s 40s and 50s industrial scene, its idiosyncrasies, success and failures. Another Crewe-like scene coming up soon, based on p58 of the Irwell Book of LM Garratts. Edited July 15, 2014 by robmcg 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted July 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) I wonder if the current draw was too much for your chip? However the Lenz chip should handle the current. It would be worth trying the chip in another loco to see if it works. It sounds as if the problem is in the DCC part of the circuit board. Can't remember what the current capacity is on a Lenz Standard, but you could do worse than check the current draw of the Garratt and see if there is any descrepancy. IWhen I get my version ( hopefully by the end of the month) I am going to fit the Olivia's trains sound chip, I know it's another £100 but you know the saying.....in for a penny Edited July 14, 2014 by 7013 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I received 47992 today - I asked for deferred posting as I was on holiday; well done Hattons. I have to say that the Beyer Garratt is by far the smoothest-running steam loco that I have ever purchased - or built! Would that all RTR models (and my kit-built locos) were as good! The bogie brakes are easily removed with a little leverage from a scalpel blade- they plug onto the main pony-truck frame but are retained with glue. The sandpipes are VERY fragile, but can be strengthened with thicker superglue and an accelerant spray. The shiny handrails will need overpainting, and the valvegear will be 'subdued'. The numbers and BR symbols are oversized, but are easily replaced - I may even respray the body with dirty black and apply new markings. OK - not perfect, but the running qualities offset any cosmetic deficiencies. Altogether my best RTR steam outline purchase in many a long year - and there's been a few good 'uns recently. Regards, John Isherwood. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) Here is another view of my version of factory lightly-weathered 47971 based on a pic of newly repaired 47978 at Crewe, and I agree with many of John's comments above. Subdued handrails, brakes removed, and motion subdued . Emblem reduced and reversed. In the photo upon which this is based even the rivets on the tank sides are visible. Perhaps 47971 is being fired for the first time after repairs and paint. Apologies if I have overdone the pictures, I promise to restrain myself... Edited July 15, 2014 by robmcg 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) I feel somewhat uncomfortable with the livery of 47971. Has anyone come across photos of this livery? The livery would definitely be correct with LMS on the cab, as the numerals are in postwar LMS style. I can imagine BR painting out the LMS insignia but did they really put totems on the cab without re-doing the running numbers in BR Gil Sans? Intriguing. Edited July 15, 2014 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 21C123 Posted July 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2014 hi all has anyone tried fitting Kadee couplings to their Garratt ? The NEM pockets appear to be about 2 mm too high when I fit a number 19. Thanks Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted July 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2014 Can anyone recommend a suitable DCC chip for these beasts? I stuck a standard Lenz into mine and after a couple of hours one of the loco's motors (at the front) gave up the ghost. I thought it was a motor issue as the rear motor was still working correctly. However, I switched it back to DC to test before returning it to Hattons and it ran perfectly. So it looks like a chip issue (or possibly a PCB issue?) I recalled that before the loco failed the chip wasnt responding to my commands (slowing down, speeding up etc.) as quick as it should too. just wondering what experiences people were having when it came to DCC and decoders that work well with them? The following link should take you to the happy ending of my DCC problem with my Garratt. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87587-what-could-cause-my-decoders-to-misbehave/&do=findComment&comment=1508549 The replacement (very quickly replaced without fuss) works perfectly. Unlike the first one the replacement has access to all speed settings and the lights respond instantly. I had originally bought a Lenz Standard + as advised by others but I don't think any decoder would have worked properly. If you do plough through the thread you will see I tried 2 Lenz and a Hattons own brand. It has A TCS T1 in now. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) I feel somewhat uncomfortable with the livery of 47971. Has anyone come across photos of this livery? The livery would definitely be correct with LMS on the cab, as the numerals are in postwar LMS style. I can imagine BR painting out the LMS insignia but did they really put totems on the cab without re-doing the running numbers in BR Gil Sans? Intriguing. p.39 of Irwell Book of LM Garratts shows 47971 at Crewe in 10/48 with in the writer's words 'that curious block style' renumbering. It is unclear because of reflection whether it had a totem or LMS or nothing on the cab side. Other photos of the era show LMS on the cab side with BR 4-prefix LMS-style large numerals on the tanks. Other liveries in the Hattons range are shown in the book (I got mine from Amazon about a year ago) such as 47995 cab-side numbers with blank tank sides, and I think the book shows similar research material/photos as Heljan/Hattons used. p.s. note; The Book Depository has the Irwell Book of the LM Garratts for £15 or so UK only at the moment, other offers are around via Amazon. Ian Sixsmith is an excellent author. warning buying and reading this book may induce Garratt purchasing fatigue edit; here is a quick edit of the cab side into a possible LMS/BR 1949 appearance. Edited July 16, 2014 by robmcg 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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