Heljan Beyer garratt

[Brian Hawkins]

Good effort Brian............I know secretly that most of us would maybe like more Garratts.  

 

You havent sound fitted all of them have you....I shall have to revise my figures if you have..!!!!

 

We all spend our money in different ways.....I forget how much I used to throw at motorcycle racing....considerably more than 9 Garratts though.

 

Enjoy the models.......I'm sure you will.

 

Bob.

 

 

Thanks Bob,

 

I agree mate, you can't take it with you, at least i'm spending it wisely, my first love is following Portsmouth FC having done so since the age of six, hate to tally up how much iv'e spent following them through the good and bad years :-(

[robmcg]

Hi 250BOB,

Actually I have nine versions at present, I had no intention of collecting all twelve when they were first announced but, I thought i would just get the one example with a standard bunker and one with a revolving bunker, however, on receiving my first Garratt, 266201 LMS 4970 and having Olivia's sound fitted and having it superbly weathered by Steve Johnson of Grimy Times I became hooked on these superb models, I have run this loco so much I think its travelled to the moon and back already !

My layout is approximately 11 x 7 and I have a 12 road steam shed with a Fleishmann Ho turntable, unfortunately the Garratts are to long to fit on the table so I cannot have any on display "On Shed".

I only run two Garratts at anyone time but also have a couple a couple of other examples standing spare somwhere on the layout.

 

That's more-or-less how I started; one fixed bunker LMS and one revolving bunker BR, and the two are so impressive to behold, stationary or running, that more versions in different styles are a highly attractive proposition. I just have a diorama so actual running is minimal.

 

Of course those who want realistic trains of coal wagons will need both private owner types and wooden and steel BR versions... in my photos I have hunted out my 9-or-so Hornby weathered private owner wagons for trains up to around 1949 and various weathered BR versions for later scenes, around 1950 there were still plenty of private owner wagons still in use.

 

What interests me is the size of Hattons' production runs for each variant and whether-or-not the price will remain the same into the future, compared to, say, a Bachmann or Hornby highly detailed large engine for which R&D and tooling has already been done, 9F and A3/4 come to mind, these are in the £150 area are they not?

 

In any event a heavily weathered LMS revolving bunker version may just simply have to be done, ...   and if Hattons don't do it, well, I will just have to get my paint brush out!     Doing it myself I can put the rust and scale just where I want, too...   See?  I've talked myself into it.

 

Nurse!  Where are my anti-enthusiasm pills?

Edited July 6, 2014 by robmcg

[250BOB]

That's more-or-less how I started; one fixed bunker LMS and one revolving bunker BR, and the two are so impressive to behold, stationary or running, that more versions in different styles are a highly attractive proposition. I just have a diorama so actual running is minimal.

 

Of course those who want realistic trains of coal wagons will need both private owner types and wooden and steel BR versions... in my photos I have hunted out my 9-or-so Hornby weathered private owner wagons for trains up to around 1949 and various weathered BR versions for later scenes, around 1950 there were still plenty of private owner wagons still in use.

 

What interests me is the size of Hattons' production runs for each variant and whether-or-not the price will remain the same into the future, compared to, say, a Bachmann or Hornby highly detailed large engine for which R&D and tooling has already been done, 9F and A3/4 come to mind, these are in the £150 area are they not?

 

In any event a heavily weathered LMS revolving bunker version may just simply have to be done, ... and if Hattons don't do it, well, I will just have to get my paint brush out! Doing it myself I can put the rust and scale just where I want, too... See? I've talked myself into it.

 

Nurse! Where are my anti-enthusiasm pills?

Forget the pills Rob, both you and Brian are beyond help......and with a bit of luck, I'll be joining you.

Bob

[JZ]

 a Garratt headed coal train of 20 wagons looks pretty good in my eyes.

 

My one nod to the present era is a FHH class 66. I have 7 HHAs to go behind it and that still looks a pretty good train.

[Brian Hawkins]

Hattons are showing only two 266201 LMS 4970 with standard tender left in stock

[Ive595]

Second time of asking, all seems well, no motor problems, Dcc fitted and running fine, both front and rear bogies seem a little 'light' and are fond of wandering off following their own agenda, back to backs were out but still have same problem. I think a little lead fixed to the bogus should do the trick.

Let's see what the other one is like, then its out with the weathering stick to reduce its resale value by half!

Happy days

 

Ivan

[rover90]

Second time of asking, all seems well, no motor problems, Dcc fitted and running fine, both front and rear bogies seem a little 'light' and are fond of wandering off following their own agenda, back to backs were out but still have same problem. I think a little lead fixed to the bogus should do the trick.

 

Ivan

 

Ivan

 

Can you confim this solution for wandering pony trucks works please, once you have tried it please? I have the same problem. I tried releasing the screw thast holds the pony truck on, but that didn/t make any difference.

 

Brian

[Ive595]

I will Brian, I will have a look tomorrow evening, I also tried the fixing screw and as you say nothing happened.

I had the opportunity to try out 5 other Beyers this afternoon, they all suffered from the same problem and not all at the same part of the layout. One did it on a straight piece of track but at different parts down the straight, even more confusing not every time it went down it. 

One of the guys I was with made a quiet comment that I ignored at the time but picked up on later, he said put a load behind it and it will calm it down. 6-0! Sorry Germany still scoring goals.

Anyway back to the Beyer, we put a 30 wagon load behind the one that let go in a straight line and it did improve things, not cure it but improve it.

Not had a chance to try it with mine yet.

 

Ivan

[robmcg]

Funny you should mention weathering, I have just bought my first pristine version and created a pic rather like the one of p70 of the Irwell Press 'Book of the LM Garratts'  which shows LMS 7983 outside Crewe Shops...    and I have darkened the rods and handrails a little and added a few work-stains here and there but nothing major.

 

Reminds one of the bomb damage and other decrepitude of building around sheds frequented by Garratts for many years after the war..  the background being based loosely on Crewe.

 

Edited July 9, 2014 by robmcg

[Ive595]

Rob, let's have a couple of pics

 

Ivan

[robmcg]

ok here's a second,   well, it was the first one really, and I wanted to see how a pristine model could be made to look with a few mods like darkening the rods and handrails, the Crewe shed pic came afterwards. I think it looks great.

I added a tad of incipient rust and heat stains to the lower firebox, but not too much... also 'opened' the driver's window and a touch of matt-look finish here and there, edited.

 

Definitely wouldn't have stayed clean for too long after its 'light intermediate' overhaul. But it shows how a pristine can look with a little bit of weathering, or in this case, picture editing.

 

Edited July 9, 2014 by robmcg

[Ive595]

Nicely done sir, I have trouble with lightly weathered, they all seem to end up heavily weathered rusted and in need of the scrapper! Must hold something back or hide some paints.

 

Ivan

[Tony_S]

I mentioned recently my Garratt had to be returned to Hattons as it was behaving very strangely after DCC decoder fitting. Hattons arranged  collection from a nearby shop on Friday and I had the replacement this morning. Installation of decoder was as easy as before but this time everything worked perfectly.

I am very pleased with and impressed by Hattons efficiency in dealing with the problem,

Now having had my hands on two of these I can confirm that the light weathering is light, and this one seems a bit lighter light than the first one. Not any problem though, I'll add some more subtle grime at some future date.

Tony

[Riddles]

Has anyone else had experience of reverse running, after fitting a decoder? The decoder appeared to have been fitted correctly (i.e. red and orange end at the pin marked "1"), but it ran chimney first when set to reverse, and coal bunker first when set to forward. The lights don't work either. I have checked CV29 and the decoder is set for normal running (CV29=6).

 

I have contacted Hattons about this and other matters, but so far I have not received a reply from the "Product Specialist" to whom it has been referred,

Edited July 9, 2014 by Riddles

[JZ]

Has anyone else had experience of reverse running, after fitting a decoder? The decoder appeared to have been fitted correctly (i.e. red and orange end at the pin marked "1"), but it ran chimney first when set to reverse, and coal bunker first when set to forward. The lights don't work either. I have checked CV29 and the decoder is set for normal running (CV29=6).

 

I have contacted Hattons about this and other matters, but so far I have not received a reply from the "Product Specialist" to whom it has been referred,

I've had this with the odd loco from Bachmann. Turn the decoder plug and see how it goes then.

[250BOB]

Has anyone else had experience of reverse running, after fitting a decoder? The decoder appeared to have been fitted correctly (i.e. red and orange end at the pin marked "1"), but it ran chimney first when set to reverse, and coal bunker first when set to forward. The lights don't work either. I have checked CV29 and the decoder is set for normal running (CV29=6).

 

I have contacted Hattons about this and other matters, but so far I have not received a reply from the "Product Specialist" to whom it has been referred,

 

The lights not working is the give away that the decoder is in the wrong way round.

[Riddles]

The lights not working is the give away that the decoder is in the wrong way round.

That is certainly what you would expect but, as I said previously, the red and orange wires of the decoder plug, are at the pin marked "1". This suggests to me that the DCC socket may be wired wrongly. If it's not that, it may be the decoder loom. I paid Hattons to fit their own decoder just so that the loco would have a test run before they sent it.

 

Running in reverse and non-operation of lights appears not to have been noticed. I am not "having a go at Hattons" as I am sure that they will sort the problem out.

[250BOB]

That is certainly what you would expect but, as I said previously, the red and orange wires of the decoder plug, are at the pin marked "1". This suggests to me that the DCC socket may be wired wrongly. If it's not that, it may be the decoder loom. I paid Hattons to fit their own decoder just so that the loco would have a test run before they sent it.

 

Running in reverse and non-operation of lights appears not to have been noticed. I am not "having a go at Hattons" as I am sure that they will sort the problem out.

 

Yep, they will sort alright..............they will just turn the decoder round.

 

I have come across the same problem with some decoders occasionally.......just accepted something was wrong, spun the decoder round and got on with it.

 

You are quite within your rights to return it for Hattons to put right.....but at least you know what they will do to resolve it.

 

I'm hoping to visit hattons in a few weeks time, to collect my heavily weathered version............I'll fit my own Lenz Standard Plus decoder. ( so the lights work ).

 

Bob

[250BOB]

Funny you should mention weathering, I have just bought my first pristine version and created a pic rather like the one of p70 of the Irwell Press 'Book of the LM Garratts'  which shows LMS 7983 outside Crewe Shops...    and I have darkened the rods and handrails a little and added a few work-stains here and there but nothing major.

 

Reminds one of the bomb damage and other decrepitude of building around sheds frequented by Garratts for many years after the war..  the background being based loosely on Crewe.

 

7983_LMS_Garratt_portrait2_3abc_r800.jpg

 

As a Crewe lad born and bred in 1948......I'll settle for that as a likeness for the works.....my Grandad was a motion fitter in the famed erecting shops, he retired just as steam finished.

 

Really great work Rob..............you do realise I completely blame you for me ordering a Garratt, you've got a lot to answer for ...........I hope you will do the same for the Hornby Crosti when the time comes.

 

Bob.

[Riddles]

Yep, they will sort alright..............they will just turn the decoder round.

I have come across the same problem with some decoders occasionally.......just accepted something was wrong, spun the decoder round and got on with it.

You are quite within your rights to return it for Hattons to put right.....but at least you know what they will do to resolve it.

I'm hoping to visit hattons in a few weeks time, to collect my heavily weathered version............I'll fit my own Lenz Standard Plus decoder. ( so the lights work ).

Bob

 

I don't know why you think I haven't tried that!  The lights do not work, whichever way round the decoder is fitted.

[robmcg]

As a Crewe lad born and bred in 1948......I'll settle for that as a likeness for the works.....my Grandad was a motion fitter in the famed erecting shops, he retired just as steam finished.

 

Really great work Rob..............you do realise I completely blame you for me ordering a Garratt, you've got a lot to answer for ...........I hope you will do the same for the Hornby Crosti when the time comes.

 

Bob.

 

Thankyou Bob, I have connection to similar railway workshops in New Zealand, the Hutt Shops where 4-8-4s were built 1932-1952 after an abortive affair with imported Beyer Peacock 4-6-2-2-6-4 Garratts in 1927, which were 3-cyl conjugated valve affairs,  they were impossible to maintain and reviled by fitters and crew alike. They could pull though, and break couplings..

 

 ...    Some similarities to the LMS versions. Ours were rebuilt as 3-cyl 4-6-2s but were a failure at that, too, with inadequate boilers (unlike the Beyer Peacock version) and that appalling valve arrangement.

 

At least the LM Garratts could get heavy loads up and down the LM main line without too much drama.  At times!

 

I knew the workshops well from the late 1950s, my parents met there in the late 30s. I can well imagine the erecting shop at Crewe.

 

The recent Garratt pics above I like because the tones remind me of recently 'shopped' heavy steam engines.

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

 

p.s. I see today that the LMS fixed bunker version has disappeared from Hatton's website today.

Edited July 10, 2014 by robmcg

[robmcg]

...

 

I completely understand the desire to have several versions of this quite unique locomotive....and a big thanks to hattons and Heljan for producing it......but at £200 a go, more than one model is likely to be out of reach for many.

Bob

 

I find myself wondering about the balance between price and quality, they are a large complex 00 model for £200  actually £165 to we outside the EU., and I notice the running issues experienced by some (a few?) and the sloppiness of assembly evident in broken brake rods, incorrect persistently fitted pony truck brakes which simply not be there on post-1933 versions, loose/missing filler caps on tank, and many have rear top lamp bracket missing altogether, small details I know. Overall I love the models and wonder how they can do it for £200.

 

Hattons are great with service and replacement, but I still wonder why these small details and errors persist. Perhaps it is a price thing that if priced over the magic £200 they may have been harder to sell in the UK. I myself like the price and will accept some assembly errors so long as they are few and minor.

Edited July 10, 2014 by robmcg

[250BOB]

I don't know why you think I haven't tried that! The lights do not work, whichever way round the decoder is fitted.

Simply because you haven't said that you had tried turning it round. We are only trying to help..!!

[Brian Hawkins]

Another film clip (silent) of LNER U1 2395 2-8-0+0-8-2 under test in the works yard at Gorton in 1925

 

 

Edited July 10, 2014 by Brian Hawkins

[Ive595]

I have to agree with ROBMCG, the fact is this locomotive has been built to a price, my intuition and the fact I have been part of an R & D team suggests a conversation went something like this....

Hattons rep ' look guys I love your pickled herrings and strong beer however w need to keep the price below £200 otherwise we will not sell it in sufficient numbers to make the tooling worthwhile'.

Heljan rep ( I won't attempt the accent ) ' the problem is with everything you want and at that detail it will have to retail at £250 to £275'

Hattons rep, ' OK lets drop the rotating coal hopper, lose some of the detail and have it fitted out at sourse rather than in your workshops.'

 

Sorry tongue in cheek but I bet its not far off.

 

If done 'properly' this should have cost £300.

 

I am pleased with mine but its not gone to the top of my favourite model list as I thought it would.

 

Ivan