antrobuscp Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 This week's St Ives Times and Echo includes an article about a projected new park and ride scheme based on St Erth Station. The idea seems to be to create a 750 space car park to encourage the public to use trains to travel to Penzance, Truro, and St Ives. It would appear to replace the Lelant park and ride base. Improvements to the station include "a step free access between platforms, and improved cafe, and a new toilet block". Listed Building consent will be required. Road access to the station will be improved, as getting out onto the A30 at the moment is not easy. If this actually succeeds in its aim, I hope there is further space for expansion as 750 spaces doesn't seem a lot to cover travel to Penzance, holidaymakers travelling to St Ives, and local/visitor travel to Truro. I know the branch has a frequent train service in the summer, but how frequent is the Truro-Penzance local service? Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Truro - PZ is an average of 1 1/2 per hour but there is a bit of a break in the PM and returning from Plymouth can be abit crowded. TR - PZ as a purely local service on its own however does not get overcrowded. This P&R upgrade is really aimed at the tourest trade for St. Ives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrobuscp Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 Truro - PZ is an average of 1 1/2 per hour but there is a bit of a break in the PM and returning from Plymouth can be abit crowded. TR - PZ as a purely local service on its own however does not get overcrowded. This P&R upgrade is really aimed at the tourest trade for St. Ives. I thought the local Truro/Penzance service was not particularly frequent, so thoughts of St Erth becoming a hub for local travel seem a bit optimistic without a substantial increase in frequency. I would think the main target, as you say is to reduce traffic entering St Ives, but the Times & Echo did play on the local travel point as well. As regular visitors, we might be tempted to use the train St Ives to Truro if the service was frequent. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 7, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 7, 2011 If my recent experience - pre-school holidays - is any guide the Cornish mainline local trains are well and truly overdone and will be 'once bitten twice shy' for many local travellers who will get fed up with having to stand in a very crowded train. The St Ives branch and possibly penzance are good ideas and should work but travelling eastwards, and returning, on trains which seem to F&S west of Truro on a good day hardly strikes me as an attractive proposition - and then add the hike back up to the station in Truro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I think there is potentially another aspect here as well. British International Helicopters which run the service the Isles of Scilly are planning to relocate from Penzance to St Erth as well so it makes sense have some joined up thinking for a change. I also think that a 2 train service with as loop on the branch will have to be considered at some point in the future. Xerces Fobe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted August 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 8, 2011 If you are in Cornwall and want to go to St Ives by train (good idea given the parking or lack of it in St Ives) there is the crazy situation that it is cheaper to go from Hayle (ok so you do need to change) than it is to go from Lelant Saltings or St Erth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I think there is potentially another aspect here as well. British International Helicopters which run the service the Isles of Scilly are planning to relocate from Penzance to St Erth as well ... Have things changed since May - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-13435910 - when a move to Newquay from October was seemingly certain? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted August 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 8, 2011 I thought the local Truro/Penzance service was not particularly frequent, so thoughts of St Erth becoming a hub for local travel seem a bit optimistic without a substantial increase in frequency. Watch this space (in due course, not straight away...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrobuscp Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Watch this space (in due course, not straight away...) The article didn't say it, but I wondered if an increase in frequency was "in the pipeline". It really needs to be frequent enough not to have to consult a timetable - say every half hour, or better. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I haven't seen the article, but I thought most 'Park & Ride' schemes involved frequent bus services too. I can see why they may want to keep traffic out of St Ives. There would have to be a decent roundabout outside St Erth Station on the A30 to start with, coming out from there at present, especially to travel back towards Hayle, is not easy. If for Penzance, a Park & Ride at Marazion seems a more practicle site, though of course for buses, not trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 More details http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=28802 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Have things changed since May - http://www.bbc.co.uk...rnwall-13435910 - when a move to Newquay from October was seemingly certain? Yes they have I was in Cornwall at the end of June St Erth Heliport Xerces Fobe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I can see why they may want to keep traffic out of St Ives. So why did BR cut back the track alongside the platform at St Ives to make room for a car park? Not their finest hour! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 So why did BR cut back the track alongside the platform at St Ives to make room for a car park? Not their finest hour! Chris Car Parking is easy money, just look how station car park costs have rocketed since rail privatisation! Xerces Fobe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted August 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 8, 2011 There have been problems with the Lelant P&R site over the years. From a lack of signage to a distinct lack (in some years) of stopping trains and sometimes even a car park operator. The access is not directly off the main road either which comes down Nut Lane off the A30 roundabout. It is necessary to double-back along Griggs Quay to the somewhat obscure entrance. For St. Ives users a P&R at St. Erth has potential benefits. It would be located right beside the main A30, at a staffed station with proper facilities and with the same service level (or better since late evening trains have to call there but skip Saltings). That said another major roundabout so close to the big one at the end of the Hayle by-pass will go down about as well as a rectal emission in the rush hour tube among the locals even though they acknowledge the difficulty of turning right from St. Erth station onto the A30. On the other hand if the Crowlas by-pass were ever built, which is badly needed in summer, then the "old" A30 (the existing road) could more easily be reconfigured to create a safe access to the station. The Penzance - St. Erth train service is roughly hourly. Very roughly. There are more up trains in the morning and more down in the late evening. That is the reverse of what makes for an attractive service towards Penzance for day visitors and workers. To make St. Erth an attractive and viable P&R option for Penzance and surrounding towns will require the provision of at least a 30-minute headway train as St. Ives has. Perhaps by the extension of the branch service into a Penzance - St. Ives all-day service though that will require at least two more units and several more train crews. It might also cause an issue of pathing particularly on the Long Rock single line section with its speed-limited approach to the terminus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Many thanks edwin_m for the reference. quote: The A30 junction with Station Approach would become signal controlled with localised widening to improve junction capacity and improve safety for traffic emerging from Station Approach. Oh yes, that sounds great, considering the problems in Crowlas, I don't see a signal controlled junction helping at all. If they have money to spend, better up County on the A30 by Temple, the single lane bit, having heard reports on local radio on a 'good' day it's like a long car park, dualling the road seems to be an urgent need. Meanwhile back at St Erth, I can see it may be viable from a design teams point of view, and probably used by tourist, but locals, they are to independent for this sort of thing.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted August 9, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 9, 2011 Signal control is the last thing that place should have unless the Crowlas by-pass goes in. The jams already back up to Penzance and Loggans Moor (Connor Downs by-pass) on the A30 on a regular basis now. An attractive alternative to private motoring is badly needed yet no-one seems interested in promoting the current P&R scheme which has been the case almost since it began. Even the local bus service is not a realistic option in the opinion of many locals. Penzance - St. Ives via the A30 has been cut from 3 to 2 trips an hour; the "main line" from Truro to Penzance reaches Camborne every 10 minutes yet only one an hour goes on to Penzance. One an hour also diverts into St. Ives. With cash fares which require the yielding of an arm and both legs those who are not lucky enough to qualify for free travel find it cheaper to drive specially if more than one person is travelling. A P&R at St. Erth will only be successful as a part of a much larger package of transport enhancements whether or not the heliport moves from its current location. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterbournecm Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 It certainly seems the Council have St Erth in mind as the transport hub for South West Cornwall. I agree that 750 car parking spaces doesn't seem enough to cope though. Some timetable re-working will probably happen. Maybe more frequent trips into Penzance from St Ives as the branch is now at saturation point with small turnround with 2 drivers at times at St Ives. The heliport being nmoved to St Erth is a relatively new idea, and one wonders if that was invisaged with the new plans for St Erth station. I'm surprised the environmental folk havent objected to helicopters disturbing the wildfowl on the nearby estuary. Still - it's a win - win for the railway. It looses the time absorbing Leleant Saltings stop, so speeds up the branch timings, and all the additional passengers for Penzance. The A30 this Summer season has to been ssen to be believed. The lack of sunny days has led to "wandering sydrome" when all the lovely visitors get into their cars and plod between towns. I think it will take a lot to convince people that they should let the train take the strain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 ......... The lack of sunny days has led to "wandering sydrome" when all the lovely visitors get into their cars and plod between towns. I think it will take a lot to convince people that they should let the train take the strain. Ah, so that's why our village (think someplace cat! ) has been a nightmare since Easter, and no trains here either. Of course it would help if visitors could reverse with confidence, pass on the other side of the road and appreciate the roads/lanes are only 1.5 vehicles wide, oh and that's not a hedge, but a Cornish Hedge (stone wall covered in green, they don't give). A couple of weeks ago I had to go to Guildford for one of my son's wedding, took me 1.5 hours to reach the start of the Truro Bypass (A30) - Chiverton Cross because it was an overcast day, above 'wanderers' - normally 35mins. Have you ever noticed how you come onto the tail of queue after a road junction when it's just to late to turn back, be it the A30, Motorway etc., One of our problems with the local buses - only the small shopper ones visit us every half hour - is that from Penzance they are full before halfway through PZ, then 50 % have left the bus before the edge of PZ, thus not much room for visitors (which tend to be family groups) and the village is renowned for no parking places anyway......... then a big lorry uses it SatNav to deliver a load.... oh what joy. I agree about the current hold ups around Crowlas etc., and why they are having a Sainsbury's on the existing Heliport site, I don't know, one west of Penzance would be much better for Penwith - there's already Tesco and Morrisons within a few hundred yards of the existing Heliport. I think they are looking at St Erth for the Heliport as there was so much derision from locals when they proposed using Lands End airport (grass runway, don't think Heathrow etc.,) - there's days of mist etc., down there, let alone the practicalities of transfer of people from PZ station to Lands End airport. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Whereas I can appreciate the reasons for the train service, the moving the helicopters to St Erth takes a bit of believing. Currently they take off and head out over the bay, reducing noise pollution than if it were over land. What is the logic, apart from flogging the site to Sainsburys, of moving from Penzance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Whereas I can appreciate the reasons for the train service, the moving the helicopters to St Erth takes a bit of believing. Currently they take off and head out over the bay, reducing noise pollution than if it were over land. What is the logic, apart from flogging the site to Sainsburys, of moving from Penzance? I agree Penzance is the ideal location for the Heliport however this is a commercial service and it is currently struggling - so regrettably Sainsbury's to the rescue! Xerces Fobe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 So why did BR cut back the track alongside the platform at St Ives to make room for a car park? Not their finest hour! Chris BR made the car park space in the late 1960s by knocking down the complete station and building a new halt on the former goods dock siding in order to try and resolve parking problems in the town. The platform subsequently had to be extended to take longer trains. The park and ride came when the platform was extended. The P&R move to St. Erth was mentioned to me two years ago when I wrote about the St.Ives branch for RAIL. The impression that I got was that the Lelant Saltings car park is inadequate. Access to it is appalling, with speed bumps down a residential road through a new housing development.I got the impression it was resolving the issue between the householders and holidaymakers that is the main reason for moving it - plus the availability of surplus land at St. Erth where, I guess the train operator might well get the money, rather than the local council. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonhaynes72 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 There was a proposal from the former Kerrier, now Cornwall Council, landscape architects about this. A fair amount of work has gone into it. The heliport would be well sited there, but slightly interfere with the birds on the estuary. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted August 11, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 11, 2011 Kerrier District never included St. Erth. That was always in Penwith which also included all of Hayle and Connor Downs. Kerrier started at Horsepool on the Camborne road. Will a heliport in that area "Slight(ly) interfere" with the bird reserves around the Hayle estuary? No. It will significantly affect them. The area is a SSSI but that designation no longer seems to afford protection from such developments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Nimby's'll probably stop the development anyway...................Choppers are noisy. Best, Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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