Coombe Barton Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 The area is a SSSI but that designation no longer seems to afford protection from such developments. Porthustock Quarry on The LIzard had an SSSI designation, but it didn't prevent the resumption of quarrying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted August 12, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 12, 2011 Porthustock Quarry on The LIzard had an SSSI designation, but it didn't prevent the resumption of quarrying. I assume that this quarry already had existing mineral extraction permissions. The are 2 or 3 others that I can think of that have had reopening proposed using very old permissions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted August 12, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 12, 2011 Will a heliport in that area "Slight(ly) interfere" with the bird reserves around the Hayle estuary? No. It will significantly affect them. The area is a SSSI but that designation no longer seems to afford protection from such developments. The SSSI designation for this site mainly relates to overwintering birds and the vegetive habitats. Given the lower levels of winter flights I suspect that the planning application will state that the impact will be minimal especially if combined with a flight route that takes them away from the main SSSI areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I assume that this quarry already had existing mineral extraction permissions. The are 2 or 3 others that I can think of that have had reopening proposed using very old permissions. It was - but it was touch and go - I understand that there was extension after extension prior to the resumption of quarrying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted August 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2011 This idea has been rattling about for years.... As far as I recall one of the main motivations for doing the P&R from St Erth was so the Railway could keep all the monies taken....The Carpark at Lelant Saltings is either privately owned or run by the council... There is another reason/benefit - the relocation of the P&R to St Erth and the down-grading or possible closure of Lelant Saltings station would mean trains not having to stop there, certainly not at the current frequency. This in turn means that the current half-hourly timetable is more robust from a performance/reliability point of view, and that some of the currently missed stops at Carbis Bay could possibly be reinstated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonhaynes72 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Kerrier District never included St. Erth. That was always in Penwith which also included all of Hayle and Connor Downs. Kerrier started at Horsepool on the Camborne road. Yes, they are now part of the County Council and work across the County, hence being involved in this. They were part of Kerrier, and at present are still based in Dolcoath Ave, and were leading consultation about work along the line. This has been cancelled due to funding cuts. There has been recent local lobbying around St. Erth on this as it is vital for the Scillies, bringing in welcome income. Hope a decision is made sooner rather than later Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 British International Helicopters operating from Newquay to the Isles of Scilly from July 2012 "until a new base is found" BBC website - http://www.bbc.co.uk...rnwall-15902741 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Thats going to add a fair bit of time to the journey wont it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 British International Helicopters operating from Newquay to the Isles of Scilly from July 2012 "until a new base is found" BBC website - http://www.bbc.co.uk...rnwall-15902741 Thats going to add a fair bit of time to the journey wont it? Hi, I suppose you are taking about the Helicopters lmsforever. As nice as the S-61's are, we are starting to go off topic! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 So whatever the park and ride at St Erth was going to be, that BIH are now not going to partake means that Lelant will still be the PAR for some time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I guess the amount of time added to the journey will depend on where you are coming from. If you're travelling from Penzance to the Scillies, yes, it'll take longer. If you're travelling from anywhere east of Truro (and indeed some places west), it will be a shorter journey time-wise as the helicopter is faster than surface transport! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Depends on what surface transport you are talking about. If you're travelling by train then sometimes it would be quicker to go on to Penzance than wait for the train to Newquay! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 28, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2011 The helicopter service between the mainliand and Scilly will vacate Penzance heliport in June 2012 and relocate to Newquay airport. The flight time would increase from around 20 minute to at least twice that. As well the fares would have to rise to cover the increase in fuel yet BIH has suggested they "had" to sell the Penzance site to remain viable. Something doesn't stack up there. And Newquay will be mightily inconvenient for rail passengers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I use this service once a year from Penzance to St Mary's, whilst staying in Falmouth. A move to Newquay however I fear will be the final nail in the coffin of this service, as Skybus run a competing service from Newquay and Lands End which will be cheaper than the chopper from Newquay. Why would I drive to Newquay from Falmouth when I can drive to Lands End and get a cheaper flight? I am sure there are many people like me who will do the same when the choppers leave Penzance? A more pragmatic solution would be to look at the feasibility of providing a high speed ferry service (linked to the rail service!) similar to the Red Jet to the Isle of Wight. I do however accept that the boats would have to be more of a substantial design, given the sea conditions at times around Lands End. I have been on the Scillion 111 in a Force 8 gale a very interesting experience and one I would not recommend to the faint hearted! IMO, this change will damage the already fragile economy in the South West which relies heavily on tourism. XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 28, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2011 A good many of my friends still in the Penzance and surrounding areas share the opinion that the departure of the helicopters is a "Bad Thing". Equally they would much prefer an in-town supermarket rather than another one out of town which relies upon use of a car to access from many areas. But those decisions have been made and nails driven into coffins already. Lands End airport is fogbound for too many days of the year to offer a reliable service. Skybus is unable to fly form there on such days. Scillonian III was designed and built for the often very rough seas on the Penzance - St. Marys crossing and seldom fails to complete or make an advertised crossing. Likewise the Gry Maritha cargo ship. Either might be sighted riding stormy seas in conditions which many would consider too much of a challenge. Replacement shipping (which is itself the subject of a hotly-contested argument) would need to be at least as substantial and not a multi-hull of lighter weight as has been proposed. Penzance is the logical terminal for such operations. It has an adequate harbour (barring 2 or 3 low tides each years) for the shipping and suitable flat land for the heliport. It is the end of the main rail line and effectively the end of the road (though the A30 meanders on to Lands End). What has been done may be terminal to the BIH business and may harm the interests of Penzance in the longer term but is not now going to be undone. My question remains as to why, if BIH feels a need to cash-in their assets to support the business, do they then feel they can ask passengers to pay massively increased fares plus arrange less convenient transport links for a Newquay service? Even if that is only intended as an interim measure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted November 28, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2011 BIH abandoned their plans for the terminal at St Erth a couple of weeks ago, at that time they did not announce where they would be flying from. Their need to restructure is not based on the flights to the Silly's but on their need to replace aircraft operated on Scottish (oil field?) routes. Plans for a new ship to replace both the Scillonian III and the Gry Maritha seem to be more or less on hold whilst the planners and locals are arguing over the redevelopment of Penzance harbour (something that would be required for the new boat). There have also been proposals to move the boat from Penzance to Falmouth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Plans for a new ship to replace both the Scillonian III and the Gry Maritha seem to be more or less on hold whilst the planners and locals are arguing over the redevelopment of Penzance harbour (something that would be required for the new boat). There have also been proposals to move the boat from Penzance to Falmouth. I was aware of this ludicrous proposal too. This would be a double whammy for both Penzance and the Scilly Isles - What next cut the WOE mainline back to Truro or Plymouth? I despair that the incompetence and stupidity of both local and national politicians of all colours who stand back and allow vital transport links to degraded in such a way. XF .. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 28, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2011 Without wishing to detract in any way from the topic at hand the suggestion to use Falmouth for the surface link was based upon a commercial case being made for only one all-purpose all-weather vessel which would draw more than the current ships and be unable to make use of Lighthouse Pier at Penzance as it exists currently. The proposal was to redevelop the Barbican area and have the ship berth on a new outer face to the pier in deeper water, or if that were rejected (possibly as a political ploy) the alternative was to be shifting to Falmouth. St. Erth as a park and ride site may not be dead in the water. The heliport proposal as it existed for that location is. The future of the surface link has not been determined and both the Scillonian III and Gry Maritha currently remain in service though cannot last for ever even with the regular annual refits. Another consideration in Falmouth's favour is the size of Penzance dry dock. A new all-purpose ship would be too large to make use of that; the Scillonian III is a very tight fit but being designed for the route was also designed with that facility in mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Press release from British International Helicopters they will be leaving Penzanceat the end of October 2012 and then will operate from Newquay Airport. I would like to think that something positive will come of this change however as hard as I try i so far drawn a blank. I would say that the long future of the Helicopter service to the Isles of Scilly is very much in the balance now http://www.islesofscillyhelicopter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Press-release-BIH-continue-service-16-1-12_final.pdf XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 26, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2012 The only upside is that the Helicopters will be staying in Penzance a little longer. The plan had been intended for them to go before the summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 26, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2012 The hopes were that they would be out early in the year but operating from St. Erth. Neither will now happen. The helicopter link must be considered at risk since Newquay requires more than double the flying time and consequently much more fuel, hugely increasing the cost per passenger. It is also not a logical terminal in the context of having no rail link (as opposed to being a very short hop from the main line terminus), very few scheduled buses (as opposed to a frequent daily service) and is not even situated adjacent to a major town or trunk road. The only connectivity is with incoming flights from elsewhere. Not too many trips are made between St. Marys and Alicante or Dublin and Tresco although it might be of some benefit to those travelling to or from London. The flip side, and one which has been argued and fallen on largely deaf ears, is that the Penzance heliport site is to be redeveloped as a supermarket. There already is one next door to the heliport and another less than half a mile east. Penzance town centre is crying out for investment (and the local residents would dearly love to have a big supermarket back in town) yet everything possible is done to draw business out of the town and cause further depression. It is small consolation that Tesco, operator of the supermarket next door to the heliport, has seen fit to re-enter the town itself having closed their store when they moved to the present site. Tesco Express now trades in the main Market Jew Street. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Those of us to the west of PZ would like to have seen the supermarket our side of PZ, if there HAD to be one more in the PZ area. I thought it a great pity a few years ago when Harvey's wanted to move their fish processing plants out of Newlyn up the Coombe to the area adjacent to the A30, that somebody objected and Harveys withdrew their application spoilt that opportunity, at least we would have had a roundabout to the A30 there which is a very bad junction at present to exit/cross the A30, and if the County Council had given some long term thoughts to the infrastructure around Newlyn, they could have built a bypass from that junction of the Coombe/A30 over the hill to join the road to Sheffield, Lamorna etc.,, thus relieving the busy junction at Newlyn Bridge - and possibly a site for the western Supermarket, although we do have the Co-op(s) west of PZ..... Mention of the increased cost from NQ to the Isles, well at present a return from PZ is £190 period return, £162 Saver and £110 day return. A single is £100. I can fly to Dublin return for £60 from NQ. So how much more can a Return flight from NQ to the Isles be and still be viable to the public? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Access to Newquay by bus will probably get worse as the bus cuts come into effect ,how about a tunnel to the Scillys? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2012 This whole sorry tale smacks of greedy developers and planners/politicians indifferent to local needs. No doubt it would suit them all if the Scilly Isles were to be forcibly depopulated.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 26, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2012 This whole sorry tale smacks of greedy developers and planners/politicians indifferent to local needs. No doubt it would suit them all if the Scilly Isles were to be forcibly depopulated.... It may smack of greedy developers but British International Helicopters actually sold up rather than having the site sold out from under them. The move will potentially kill off the day-trip market which is at present quite buoyant. Higher fares may make that much less attractive. Those fares should not be compared with flights from Newquay to destinations served by larger fixed-wing aircraft which often have many more seats and are able to spread costs over a greater payload. The trains have never connected with the helicopters in the sense of stopping side-by-side. But the helicopter (and ferry) times used to be included in the BR WR timetables with a note advising there was a bus link between the station and heliport. It was - and currently still is - possible to make a day trip to St. Marys arriving at Penzance on the overnight train from London, having most of the day on Scilly and returning to Penzance in time for dinner and, perhaps, a return on the up "beds" as well. Trains, ferries and helicopters do liaise closely with each other. It is normal to be asked upon boarding the Night Riviera at Paddington if one has a helicopter or ferry connection to maintain for instance and the information phoned forward in the event the train is delayed. The dedicated bus link was withdrawn some years ago as it was little-used but there is a regular timetabled bus every few minutes and the cost of a taxi is hardly likely to trouble the pocket of someone who can afford both train and helicopter fares already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.