London Bridge re-development

[roundhouse]

I was messing about with my camera phone just over a week or so ago one evening.

 

 

[roythebus]

Looking back on the previous conversation about the stuck unit, the main problem of dragging it out with another electric unit is the very real danger that the assisting unit could get gapped in the process, making the situation even more difficult! The other problem is that assuming the whole show moves, the dead unit then bridges the gaps between the isolated/defective section and transfers the problem to the live section, which then shorts out.... Thunderbirds are GO!

[unravelled]

More changes at London Bridge this weekend. With the first section of new viaduct for the through platforms in place, a direct entrance to the subway is being opened/reopened. I think work will now  move to the section of viaduct across the forecourt.

 

Pictures from the last few weeks at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/unravelled/sets/72157632556184415/

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[jonathan452]

It looks as if the overhaul of escalator No.7 at Canada Water is now nearing completion.

 

Just as well as Canada Water is going to be an absolute road block during the week following the late August Bank Holiday.

 

Noting that the additional London Overground services to Crystal Palace are at the expense of the New Cross service.

 

Can someone please remind me what the scope of works are at London Bridge during the upcoming blockade.

 

And any significant activities in connection with the Bermondsey dive under?

 

Many thanks in advance.

[cornelius]

 

Can someone please remind me what the scope of works are at London Bridge during the upcoming blockade.

 

 

I think its mainly opening platforms 12 - 13 and closing 10-11.

[ZippyHG]

Yes, they are closing platforms 10 and 11, finish the construction of the new platform 12 and 13 and also bring them into use. They are also slewing the tracks on the approach to London Bridge Low Level into what will be its final configuration, This reduces the number of approach roads down to 3, by merging the Up and Down Main lines. The advance starting signals, L501/3/5 also move to there new position on the next gantry towards country.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

...This reduces the number of approach roads down to 3, by merging the Up and Down Main lines.

 

 

Oh dear. It is already mayhem getting trains in and out of London Bridge low-level; how on earth are they going to cope with a reduced number of approach roads?

 

 

The advance starting signals, L501/3/5 also move to there new position on the next gantry towards country.

 

 

Hopefully these ones won't fail with the alarming regularity the current signals seem to. Recently there has been at least signalling problem every week either at, or on the approaches to, London Bridge.

[phil-b259]

Hopefully these ones won't fail with the alarming regularity the current signals seem to. Recently there has been at least signalling problem every week either at, or on the approaches to, London Bridge.

I wouldn't bet on it. Yes the signals themselves and the tail cables may well be new BUT they will have to be 'bodged' onto the existing relay interlocking which will have to have to undergone some pretty extensive alterations to cope with the revised approaches. Given only takes a single relay contact having a slightly high contact resistance to bring things to a halt the chances of that happening are reasonably high,especially in the first few weeks.

 

Eventually the entire area will be resignalled with a SSI interlocking and be transfered to Three Bridges but that date is a few years away yet because at the moment the south eastern side remains untouched. Only once construction of the new Charring Cross through platforms are complete and trains need to start calling there does the need for a new interlocking start becoming a necessity

[John M Upton]

Be aware anyone who has picked up the green with cogs leaflet that Southern/FCC/NR have been handing out concerning the week long shut down that it only contains details of the regular frequency daytime services.  If you travel on any peak London Bridge trains from the Sussex Coast, and indeed some of the ones to Victoria as well (which I have referred to as being the modern equivalent of the old City trains) there is some diversions and retimings going on that are not in the leaflet so if you are a regular then please check carefully.

 

Example: The 05:48 Southampton Central to London Bridge (attaches to the 06:57 Bognor Regis to London Bridge at Barnham) is diverted after Barnham to terminate in Littlehampton.  There are also changes to the big peak trains from Littlehampton, the 06:31 and 06:41.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Be aware anyone who has picked up the green with cogs leaflet that Southern/FCC/NR have been handing out concerning the week long shut down that it only contains details of the regular frequency daytime services.  If you travel on any peak London Bridge trains from the Sussex Coast, and indeed some of the ones to Victoria as well (which I have referred to as being the modern equivalent of the old City trains) there is some diversions and retimings going on that are not in the leaflet so if you are a regular then please check carefully.

 

 

Southern have handled this particularly badly. A travelling colleague has emailed Southern three times now asking about the direct Arun valley line train to London Bridge (which is 12 carriage train, often standing-room only from Horsham). Will it run? Will it be terminated at East Croydon? etc. Nothing at all in response. I hope for their sake the 'Managers' won't be doing their meeting sessions at London Bridge when he is travelling...he, and a fair few others, aren't best pleased with the way they have been treated.

 

 

Example: The 05:48 Southampton Central to London Bridge (attaches to the 06:57 Bognor Regis to London Bridge at Barnham) is diverted after Barnham to terminate in Littlehampton.  There are also changes to the big peak trains from Littlehampton, the 06:31 and 06:41.

 

Which is the train in question. I am grateful for you posting this, as nobody I know on the train appears to be aware of what the situation was with it, but I find it absolutely appalling that I find out about this on this forum when Southern have been asked directly a number of times and have not had the common courtesy to reply. Very poor show indeed.

 

I appreciate this work needs to be done, and Southern have to make these alterations to the timetable to accommodate; but yet again they have not got it right with the communication (despite all the jazzy pamphlets and vague announcements - yes we know there will be disruption, but not all of us are on holiday in August). 

[John M Upton]

Just been checking.  The 06:57 Bognor Regis to London Bridge (i.e.the front eight coaches of the attachment at Barnham) seems to have been retimed to a 06:56 departure,  Departs Barnham at 07:03 (vice 07:11, no attachment which is where the rear bit from Southampton disappears into Littlehampton) then all stops to Horsham, then Crawley, Three Bridges, Gatwick Airport, Redhill, Coulsdon South, East Croydon, Clapham Junction and London Victoria.

 

The preceding Arun Valley, the 06:41 Bognor Regis to Victoria is also significantly altered.  Still 06:41 off Bognor then Barnham, Ford, fast to Horsham where it sits for five minutes (attachment?) then Crawley, Three Bridges, Gatwick Airport, Horley, Redhill, Merstham, Coulsdon South, East Croydon, Clapham Junction and London Victoria.

 

Before that, the popular fast 06:37 off Barnham is still same time but will be all stops up the valley (except Ford) and also stops at Gatwick, Horley, Redhill, Coulsdon South and Merstham on the way up as well.

 

That is just from a cursory glance at the altered timings for the two key morning peak Bognor trains.  

 

All those extra stops north of Three Bridges where normally it is fast from there to Croydon strike me as a bit odd, indeed it seems almost everything that is normally fast will be stopping at Gatwick and all stops between Redhill and Coulsdon South with Horley thrown into some of them as well.

 

Littlehampton's two big 'City' trains:  The 06:31 to London Bridge as far as I can tell ceases to exist for the duration, the 06:41 to London Victoria is as booked but likely to be extremely busy if it is also carrying the 06:31's passengers (been there, done that, full and standing by Lancing. Not pleasant!)

 

Not had a chance to check the evening trains yet.

[ZippyHG]

I wouldn't bet on it. Yes the signals themselves and the tail cables may well be new BUT they will have to be 'bodged' onto the existing relay interlocking which will have to have to undergone some pretty extensive alterations to cope with the revised approaches. Given only takes a single relay contact having a slightly high contact resistance to bring things to a halt the chances of that happening are reasonably high,especially in the first few weeks.

 

     They are in the process of wiring in a new Westpac interlocking to control the new alterations as the mods to convert were so great it was easier to wire in and offline test a new interlocking

 

Eventually the entire area will be resignalled with a SSI interlocking and be transfered to Three Bridges but that date is a few years away yet because at the moment the south eastern side remains untouched. Only once construction of the new Charring Cross through platforms are complete and trains need to start calling there does the need for a new interlocking start becoming a necessity

 

    London Bridge Low Level control transfers to the 3Bridges ROC in january 2015, which will replace both the London Bridge (Low Level) interlocking and New Cross Gate interlockings together into one Westlock computer based interlocking, with Westcad control from 3Bridges. Charing Cross goes in December 2015 taking over control of the new Borough market viaduct in doing so, Cannon Street moves in August 2016 to 3Bridges ROC respectfully, they will then as each stages progreses start to take over more and more of the new installation eventually controlling as far as New Cross. The remaining panels transfer during 2017 and 2018

 

Also from january the Spa Road crossings and lines 3 and 4 are taken out of use, leaving only Line1, 2 Reversible, Line 5, line 6 and the Up Passenger Loop, trains will be routed via the Up Passenger Loop and via platform 4 whilst they start the demolition of platforms 5/6 in January also.

 

This is to allow the lines 3 and 4 to be reconfigured and signalled as if they are lines 5 and 6, this will allow them to remove lines 5 and 6 after august 2015 to allow construction of the Bermondsey flyunder/flyover. this will also incorporate the removal of the up fast and down slow/fast between Bricklayers arms and Spa Road with all services using the Bermondsey Spur to reach London Bridge, there will be a 3rd line installed during the December Blockade and more reversible working lines provided.

[ZippyHG]

Oh dear. It is already mayhem getting trains in and out of London Bridge low-level; how on earth are they going to cope with a reduced number of approach roads?

 

 

 

 

Hopefully these ones won't fail with the alarming regularity the current signals seem to. Recently there has been at least signalling problem every week either at, or on the approaches to, London Bridge.

 

Well we have had some cable damage caused during various stages over the past 18 months, some of which is only starting to come to light now, we lost a set of points, the crosover from SE to SC last week which prevented use of the Up passenger loop and D section on the central side, that had a big impact!

[phil-b259]

 

I wouldn't bet on it. Yes the signals themselves and the tail cables may well be new BUT they will have to be 'bodged' onto the existing relay interlocking which will have to have to undergone some pretty extensive alterations to cope with the revised approaches. Given only takes a single relay contact having a slightly high contact resistance to bring things to a halt the chances of that happening are reasonably high,especially in the first few weeks.

 

     They are in the process of wiring in a new Westpac interlocking to control the new alterations as the mods to convert were so great it was easier to wire in and offline test a new interlocking

 

Eventually the entire area will be resignalled with a SSI interlocking and be transfered to Three Bridges but that date is a few years away yet because at the moment the south eastern side remains untouched. Only once construction of the new Charring Cross through platforms are complete and trains need to start calling there does the need for a new interlocking start becoming a necessity

 

    London Bridge Low Level control transfers to the 3Bridges ROC in january 2015, which will replace both the London Bridge (Low Level) interlocking and New Cross Gate interlockings together into one Westlock computer based interlocking, with Westcad control from 3Bridges. Charing Cross goes in December 2015 taking over control of the new Borough market viaduct in doing so, Cannon Street moves in August 2016 to 3Bridges ROC respectfully, they will then as each stages progreses start to take over more and more of the new installation eventually controlling as far as New Cross. The remaining panels transfer during 2017 and 2018

 

Also from january the Spa Road crossings and lines 3 and 4 are taken out of use, leaving only Line1, 2 Reversible, Line 5, line 6 and the Up Passenger Loop, trains will be routed via the Up Passenger Loop and via platform 4 whilst they start the demolition of platforms 5/6 in January also.

 

This is to allow the lines 3 and 4 to be reconfigured and signalled as if they are lines 5 and 6, this will allow them to remove lines 5 and 6 after august 2015 to allow construction of the Bermondsey flyunder/flyover. this will also incorporate the removal of the up fast and down slow/fast between Bricklayers arms and Spa Road with all services using the Bermondsey Spur to reach London Bridge, there will be a 3rd line installed during the December Blockade and more reversible working lines provided.

 

 

Interesting stuff there - especially the use of westpac for 'stageworks' rather than RRI, I take it that the existing London Bridge installation is WestPac then but what of the others you mention? News from the "Kent" section doesn't tend to reach us in "Sussex" and we have heard very little about the plans for the transfer to the ROC other than by the end of the rebuild London Bridge will be controlled from Three Bridges

 

(For those not in the know, upon privatisation the maintenance contract for  everything north of Norwood Junction was let as part of the Kent IMC contract (won and held by Balfour Beatty) while the lines south of there (as well as the lines to Victoria via Selhurst & Crystal palace, etc were let under the Sussex IMC contract (won and held by AMEC))

 

 

Well we have had some cable damage caused during various stages over the past 18 months, some of which is only starting to come to light now, we lost a set of points, the crosover from SE to SC last week which prevented use of the Up passenger loop and D section on the central side, that had a big impact!

 

Earth faults galore then ;-)

[cornelius]

Looks like the 7:15 (ish) Eastbourne - London Bridge that I usually catch at Hampden Park ceases to exist for the week as well - fortunately we're making a strategic visit to family at the other end of the country.

[The Lurker]

Yes, as I understand it, Charing Cross trains will no longer stop at London Bridge from the December blockade (at least not for passengers to get on and off).

 

It will be interesting to see what this does to the timetable, and whether there will be trains diverted to Cannon Street, or speeded up on their inward journey. I catch Charing Cross trains to and from LBG because they are quicker than Cannon Street trains (fewer stops and no diversion via Lewisham) and more frequent (and half of them start at Sidcup in the rush so I get a seat )

 

Without changes I foresee that there is a year of unpleasant travelling ahead. Still, my boss uses Thameslink and is going to have to walk from Blackfriars so "mustn't grumble"!

[ZippyHG]

Interesting stuff there - especially the use of westpac for 'stageworks' rather than RRI, I take it that the existing London Bridge installation is WestPac then but what of the others you mention? News from the "Kent" section doesn't tend to reach us in "Sussex" and we have heard very little about the plans for the transfer to the ROC other than by the end of the rebuild London Bridge will be controlled from Three Bridges

 

(For those not in the know, upon privatisation the maintenance contract for  everything north of Norwood Junction was let as part of the Kent IMC contract (won and held by Balfour Beatty) while the lines south of there (as well as the lines to Victoria via Selhurst & Crystal palace, etc were let under the Sussex IMC contract (won and held by AMEC))

 

 

 

Earth faults galore then ;-)

 

The majority of London Bridge is Westpac interlocking, the only ones that are not are Angersteins, Forest Hill, Old Kent Road and Elmers End which are all RRI. Hither Green and Cannon Street are SSI.

When the works are completed the 9 panels will be replaced by 5 workstations, along with 5 new Westlock interlockings which will still be at London Bridge, with the workstations in the ROC.

[unravelled]

A bit of an aside. I don't know if this is of any interest, but it's a sketch of what (I think) is going to happen at the Bermondsey diveunder site, and which is affecting London Bridge. These diagrams are work in progress, and not accurate in details of pointwork etc.. At the moment we are still almost as shown on the top diagram, albeit with one of the viaduct tracks adjacent to South Bermondsey Station removed. I think the next blockade will allow for the bridge spans of this viaduct to be replaced, as well as all the other works at and around  London Bridge. Once this bridge work has been completed, the second diagram comes into play, and one of the  viaducts will be taken out of use while the diveunder bridges are constructed. During this stage there will be no access from New Cross Gate to the through side of LB. The final diagram gives an indication of  the finished layout.

 

 

 

Bermondsey Divender sketch by unravelled, on Flickr

 

There are a range of photos taken of the work going on at:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/unravelled/sets/72157633053354298/

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[jonathan452]

Once this bridge work has been completed, the second diagram comes into play, and one of the  viaducts will be taken out of use while the diveunder bridges are constructed. During this stage there will be no access from New Cross Gate to the through side of LB.

Dave

Thanks for the diagrams.

 

What I found on the net to date didn't quite tell me the full storey re the phasing of the works.

 

This may also explain the 'reducing of four tracks to three' as previously mentioned.

 

So this will be the period when there are no First Capital Connect (sorry I mean Go Via Thameslink Railway) services from London Bridge to Gatwick and Brighton.

 

Just that dreadfully slow detour from the Elephant and Castle via Brockwell Park and Tulse Hill.

[jonathan452]

Dear Mr Rix,

 

I am writing to remind you that from Saturday 23 until Sunday 31 August, National Rail’s First Capital Connect and Southern services will not serve London Bridge mainline rail station. This is due to Thameslink Programme engineering work to increase capacity and improve connections. London Bridge Tube station will not be affected.

 

Some Tube and London Overground stations will be busier than usual, especially during peak hours while National Rail customers take alternative routes. London Overground services will not serve New Cross station from Tuesday 26 until Friday 29 August.

     

Canada Water travel advice

 

 

If you normally use Canada Water station, your journey may take longer during this 9 day period; please also note the following:

 

• Canada Water station is expected to be busier than usual for both London Overground and Jubilee line services

• An enhanced London Overground service will operate between Crystal Palace and Canada Water, to help meet increased demand, with four additional trains per hour during the weekday peaks

• London Overground weekday services between Sydenham and Canada Water are expected to be busier than usual, with crowding and queuing on platforms, especially during peak hours

 

For more information and to know your travel options from Canada Water, please click here

     

Yours sincerely,

Vernon Everitt

Managing Director,

Customer Experience, Marketing and Communications

 

[cromptonnut]

Not a lot of use when you are unable (for medical reasons) to use the tube...

[Dave Scott]

I am new to this forum but one thing not mentioned regarding pre 70s changes is that the low level platforms adjacent to plat 7 were actually South Eastern in origin. The old SE tin roofed bridge linked to these platforms but not through the wall to the Brighton side. For those wondering why in pre 70s there was no p5 this was actually a through road between 4 and 6 that had to be removed when platforms were lengthened in the 50s. Our local station as a lad was Catford Bridge and I missed the pre 70s station with its subteranian passageways and shops as much as people are now missing the 70s station. Between 76 and 92 commuted between Staplehurst and Cannon St / Waterloo East but hardly used LB as we simply didnt stop during rush hour. My regards to those still batling it out at LB.

[eastwestdivide]

NR's timelapse video of recent work at:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/News-Releases/Timelapse-and-pictures-Thameslink-Programme-on-track-as-new-platforms-arrive-on-time-at-London-Brid-2140.aspx

[The Lurker]

See also the pictures of the work on Big Jim's thread in this part of the forum. A view the public don't get.

[jonathan452]

See also the pictures of the work on Big Jim's thread in this part of the forum. A view the public don't get.

 

Yes I think I caught a glimpse of a Colas Class 66 on the above mentioned timelapse video.

 

Also I dont know if the below link has been mentioned here yet - someone kindly posted it on the latest London Reconnections thread.

 

http://www.infrarail.com/_downloads/presentations/IF14_Thameslink.pdf

Page 65 onwards for future works timelines, and the Dive-under.

 

 

Very informative.