Guest dilbert Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 No, but an acknowledgement of receiving the letter would have been courteous. I would have been happy with that. You received a reply from Hornby, and from what I can make out, it was at a personal level (if not please correct). If you had sent it to ten people in Hornby, would you expect one reply and nine acknowledgements ? I don't think Hornby have done anything wrong in this instance and I'm sure that Bachmann and the rest would have done the same - otherwise they would get choked on the amount of polite messaging (might bring the unemployment figures down and would certainly drive up the price even further... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 You received a reply from Hornby, and from what I can make out, it was at a personal level (if not please correct). If you had sent it to ten people in Hornby, would you expect one reply and nine acknowledgements ? Dilbert, it was indeed at a personal level (Mr Kohler very courteous in his reply), but this isn't the same as sending it to ten random people. It was to the marketing manager, and the CEO. Both letters carefully worded for each other's positions, and both polite whilst firm in my view. I went out of my way to write it up, photograph and document the problems, and it came to five pages of A4, neatly printed with colour photographs, and send next day recorded delivery. It did also go out in various forms to two particular magazine editors: no replies from them either. I think - whatever position you hold - when you get a formal, written letter, it is courteous to acknowledge your receipt, even if you have little in the way of a pertinent response to said letter. I don't think Hornby have done anything wrong in this instance and I'm sure that Bachmann and the rest would have done the same - otherwise they would get choked on the amount of polite messaging (might bring the unemployment figures down and would certainly drive up the price even further... dilbert I have had correspondence with Bachmann before and have had a written reply within the same week, so no, I can't say that my experience of Hornby and Bachmann are the same. It may be for others, I cannot say either way and I doubt I could say with any conviction that was so when I have no evidence to the contrary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Interesting thread. I've held back on criticism in the past as I've felt it could be misconstrued as just bashing the companies who, frankly, keep this hobby going. But... If a model is poor we shouldn't refrain from saying so as paying customers and constructive criticism is fine. I've been to some shocking films this year (Green Lantern anyone? No seriously, it was truly appalling) and felt I've wasted my hard earned money, so I have a great deal of sympathy for those poor chaps who have bought the 4VEP or might be sucked into that abomination that is the Gresley buffet. Hornby is great, produces some stunning gems like their Maunsell coaches and Southern locos, but what on earth makes them slip up so badly with the duff models? I mean, how can they go from one extreme to the other so rapidly? On the plus side, Bachmann I want to marry you. Alright, so it's looking into the future, but if they produce that SECR C class to a good standard, I'm joining the polygamous queue! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 SAC, it's not a question of random people - you could have also sent the letter to the Head of Engineering/R&D, the Finance Director, Production/QC... the point is you received a reply (regardless of whatever the timeframe was) from Hornby. It's just that I think your are taking a non-reply from the MD as a personal sleight and you shouldn't - as SK did reply to you in the terms you described. If you had listed your email address, and in computer speak received an <ACK> <LF> <CR>, would that have changed everything? ... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodfoundry Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Is it worth my while quickly bringing out a shocking piece of junk in the remaining two weeks as a shameless grab for an award? Even if it got down to one week, I figure it might be an even worse model? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted December 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2011 Not a specific model, but Hornby's stupid little white plug to connect the tender ( in my case of a T9) to the loco - fiddly, difficult to remove and now there us a special tool you can buy ( not supplied with the loco !) for £2.50. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I think - whatever position you hold - when you get a formal, written letter, it is courteous to acknowledge your receipt, even if you have little in the way of a pertinent response to said letter. My last (and serious) comment on the lack of reply from Frank Martin. The next time you put a lot of effort into sending correspondence to FM and want to break thru the admin firewall then start the letter with 'Dear Dad' - I guarantee you that your note will not be forwarded thru the organisation immediately as you both share the same patronym... dilbert edit : and include a photo of baby Deltic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2011 My only issue is that the 'mocking' style of critiquing models, which this could (my emphasis) be construed as (by those outside RMweb/those who have an axe to grind against the forum/Andy/the internet in general), was critisiced by a lot of people when Steve Jones used to do it on Electricnose. Just wonder if those who complained then are now sitting on the other side of the fence, and if so, why? - Not a critisicm of anyone involved, just an observation/question really! Steve Jones never gave a right of reply, I believe the manufacturers have that ability here (especially DapolDave who seems to be performing sterling service). (Nose was also factually wrong on several occasions, claimed benefits for others work, need I go on ?, probably not, it's not a nose picking session) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Manufacturers complaining about bad publicity is like drivers moaning about being done by a speed camera- if they didn't see it coming they must be blind...! They get a free reference resourse and enough research to point out errors, and when they get it right its nothing but praise. Reference the Bachy 85 Vs Heljan 86 for an example... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'll agree to disagree Dilbert, however... My last (and serious) comment on the lack of reply from Frank Martin. The next time you put a lot of effort into sending correspondence to FM and want to break thru the admin firewall then start the letter with 'Dear Dad' - I guarantee you that your note will not be forwarded thru the organisation immediately as you both share the same patronym... dilbert edit : and include a photo of baby Deltic That gave me a proper chuckle. Thanks, needed that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted December 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2011 As it looks like the Limby Warship won't make it to these shores in time, may I nominate the Limby Class 33 instead? An over priced piece of plastic that was a major waste of a production slot. If they had gone that little bit futher and stuck some flush glazing, wire handrails and correct roof fan grille on it then maybe it would have been worth a look. In the 'Doh!!' category for biggest goof of the year, Hornby forgetting to fit the high intensity head light surrounds on the NR and RR Class 31's must rank pretty high. At least they did take quick steps to deal with the problem though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Another vote for the Hornby 4VEP from me. Heljan may escape because I suspect this was a 2010 release: the Mainiine grey class 58. They corrected the livery errors of the previous Mainline grey release but then couldn't spell the name! At least it was a fairly easy one to correct with a dash of black paint on a fine brush. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted December 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2011 Not a specific model, but Hornby's stupid little white plug to connect the tender ( in my case of a T9) to the loco - fiddly, difficult to remove and now there us a special tool you can buy ( not supplied with the loco !) for £2.50. An industry standard for more than a decade, I'm afraid. My Bachmann US HO 2-8-0 appeared with such in 1999, as has every US steam loco, from several manufacturers, I've bought since. You get used to them, and a teeny-tiny screwdriver does winkle them out far enough for a pair of snipe-nose pliers to pull safely in most cases...... Can't can Hornby alone on this one, in all fairness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted December 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2011 I have left my Hornby T9 loco and tender coupled and then modified the box to take them like that. I have done the same with my USA steam locos as I am sure that after a while those connectors will break or a wire will come off as has happened on my Rivarossi FEF3. I add a little bit of suitable size heat shrink insulation over the bottom of the spigot with the drawbar coupled. This stops the draw bar becoming uncoupled and then tugging on the wire. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 the Mainiine grey class 58. Oh yes, Capitain Sensible's chum! Anyway, back to the chase, and for £36.89, this could be yours. R9683. I'd like it to have a suffix - Y. why? EDIT: just noticed its R-number is an anagram of the price! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted December 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2011 Just to assure everyone this is not just a UK manufacturer issue, my nomination is the Modermo Type 5000 'Green Mover' Hiroshima Tram. http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10131951a/20/1 Hugely anticipated, being a nice modern (and fairly generic) tram design. Modermo have produced some really nice models lately, but this was a bit of a disaster. The huge body length between the bogies resulted in body sag, which led to frequent derailments and the segment connectors dragging on the track. It also has the turning circle of an oil tanker (when it stays on the track)...not much good for tram to be honest. Really, the photo tells you all you need to know. A great prototype, badly executed (with suspect build quality) and a cataclysmic missed opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted December 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2011 Hasn't Hiroshima suffered enough? What an indignity of a model! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 An industry standard for more than a decade, I'm afraid. My Bachmann US HO 2-8-0 appeared with such in 1999, as has every US steam loco, from several manufacturers, I've bought since. You get used to them, and a teeny-tiny screwdriver does winkle them out far enough for a pair of snipe-nose pliers to pull safely in most cases...... Can't can Hornby alone on this one, in all fairness. Also used a lot in the computer & electronics industry. Full marks to Hornby for introducing this from my point of view, I love them! At least Bachmann have now taken it on board with the 3F. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Really, the photo tells you all you need to know. Truly amazing. It also looks like it has a nuclear warhead in the first car. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 You know somethings wrong when the model shops themselves can't make them loook good for online photos.... that is a very good nomination there! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Martin Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I have to admit that I'd never seen the Peco Royal Wedding MGR before. I could actually see myself buying quite a few of those... ...if it was remaindered down to a price where it was worth buying just for the underframes. Use 'em for "Coalfish" wagons. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pirouets Posted December 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2011 I feel left out modelling in N-Gauge which is still ever improving so in the spirit of the truely tenuous my contribution is the new code 55 peco 3 way point. Quite simply the fact it works is nothing as I needed it 12 months ago. Why oh why won't the manufactuers deliver to my timescales instead of mine is beyond me given I post on the interweby enough. Do the honestly think i'm contemplating changing the fiddle yard now? Hopefully in 2012 the new self building, self wiring baseboard system will finally be delivered by horbachpoljan because I can't be doing with making stuff like that anymore. This is the 21st century when plonking (or is that being a ...... ) is the norm as I have to find 39 hours a day to browse youtwitface stuff rather than make anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 My nominations for 'The 2011 Golden Pup Award', are as follows :- No1, The Hornby 4-VEPee (P**s poor, IMO) No.2, Any motor that replaces it's power to weight ratio with rubber bands. No.3, Any box containing a china plate (l mean, what can one do with that ?.. except scrape the dried beans off it) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Not a specific model, but Hornby's stupid little white plug to connect the tender ( in my case of a T9) to the loco - fiddly, difficult to remove and now there us a special tool you can buy ( not supplied with the loco !) for £2.50. That's been around for a few years now though so can't be entered for this poll! I totally agree though - I only have a couple of locos with this connection but I worry I'm going to damage the loco every time I try to connect it up to the tender... Hornby's 4VEP wins for me. I nearly dabbled in third rail... until I saw the finished product! Some of the sets that Hornby have released have been quite awful. The London packs are just lazy attempts at money spinners and I don't see them being taken up by the visiting tourists. The royal mail collections are disappointing too, especially as they have the cheek to release the old king for a price higher than most of the rest of the range... I think that the Barry J Freeman packs were inspired choices though. Fair play to Hornby for that. Whilst Hornby have proved with the LNER Suburbans that they are capable of great quality, Bachmann is leading the way for the hobby with Dapol about to start catching Hornby if their future releases live up to the hype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Just to assure everyone this is not just a UK manufacturer issue, my nomination is the Modermo Type 5000 'Green Mover' Hiroshima Tram. The prototype Green Mover is a Siemens Combino tram. Siemens had to recall several hundred, and modify at a cost of €400m, when they discovered the structure was inadequate and the roof-mounted equipment was in danger of falling into the saloon. So maybe Modemo are just being true to prototype? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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