RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted September 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2012 I think it looks great.Glad we are talking about a new locomotive and not another "unit".Only other downside for me apart from its effect on other older classes is that they are not British Built AGAIN!!!!Look forward to the N gauge model!!!! ;o) With good reason, if they were built in the UK they would be years late arriving and spend another four or five going into and out of storage whilst the bugs are ironed out. The UK's record on locomotive construction is just utterly appalling. (See classes 60, 92, etc) I would also dearly like to see UK locomoptive building once again but the fact remains we just can't do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 With good reason, if they were built in the UK they would be years late arriving and spend another four or five going into and out of storage whilst the bugs are ironed out. The UK's record on locomotive construction is just utterly appalling. (See classes 60, 92, etc) I would also dearly like to see UK locomoptive building once again but the fact remains we just can't do it. I despair sometimes. With attitudes like this it is no wonder this country is in the state it currently is. There is no reason we can't 'do manufacturing' in the UK, just a lack of investment, commitment and the will to succeed. The lack of the latter is clearly demonstrated in the above post. ROB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Here here. 25,26,27,33,37,45,40,47,50,55,and of course 08........ and HST ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 21, 2012 Regrettably the British loco manufacturing industry has shrunk considerably with - now - a very limited capacity to build mainline locos and an extremely limited market for them. In this business, as in many others, developments come thick and fast and need a decent sized market to allow a manufacturer to both get feedback and afford to develop new ideas - that simply does not exist in Britain and indeed has in any case become increasingly pan-European on the mainland. The British loco building industry largely killed itself by a failure to adapt to changing world markets in some cases and by atrocious management and constructional standards in others. This wasn't helped by the mass dieselisation of BR at an accelerated pace which not only resulted in some poorly designed and constructed locos going into traffic but also resulted in such a surplus of traction as the network contracted. The political and economic decisions that saw the end of large scale loco manufacture in Britain were made in the 1950s and '60s and the market simply isn't there now to allow expertise to be rebuilt. It is great to wish for a renaissance of loco building along with some of our other major industries such as shipbuilding but we just aren't competitive any more and most past examples in pure loco terms such as Classes 47, 56, and 60 suggest that we really didn't suss out how to make decently designed instantly reliable higher power diesels once English Electric had withdrawn from the business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted September 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 21, 2012 47,50,55 and HST ! 47's - never fulfilled their early promises - downgraded engines from 2750 to 2580hp 50 - c*cked up by BR wanting more than DP2. Later fixed by full refurbishment 55 - only kept running by being exceedingly well looked after - many of the early runs had a travelling fitter. They were highly strung thoroughbreds in the true sense. HST - suffered severe cooling probems on the first warm summer. (Typed whilst SM Mike was doing his above) Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted September 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 21, 2012 And just how long did it take for the last 60 to be finally accepted to traffic? About seven years from first one to last one whereas all bar one of 250 EWS Class 66's were completed in under half that time and worked straight off the boat (odd one out was I think 66064 which was found to have a wonky spring or something, quickly fixed though). Then there is the farcical Class 92 debacle, some still have barely turned a wheel in traffic even now!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I despair sometimes. With attitudes like this it is no wonder this country is in the state it currently is. There is no reason we can't 'do manufacturing' in the UK, just a lack of investment, commitment and the will to succeed. The lack of the latter is clearly demonstrated in the above post. Notwithstanding Mike's intervening comment, there are a couple of points worth making here. Yes, we can do manufacturing in the UK, but for it to be viable and succeed it has to be appropriate to prevailing economic forces and the markets and resources available. The R+D budget to create a new loco is immense. And it needs to be evolutionary to compete with others' standard, de-risked products, not revolutionary - which it would inevitably be after the generation gap in loco building in the UK. Minimum economic quantities would not suit a new entrant, they could not sustain the R+D (see above), and they would inevitably lead to bespoke, uncompetitively high unit costs. The UK loading gauge means that products developed for the home market are disadvantaged for export, the only factor counteracting this being the (gradual) harmonisation of Europe-wide control and operating systems. Instead, it is better and more relevant to think about the systems and components designed, manufactured and refined in this country for assembly into 'foreign-built' trains. There are a significant number of these used on overseas-badged units simply because they are proven and will sail through the approvals process. I hate and condemn the blitzkrieg wrought on our traditional manufacturing base during the seventies and eighties, but we can only move forward from the position we are in in 2012, and even I wouldn't try and defend from an engineering or quality perspective the likes of NBL's diesel output, no rose tinted specs are strong enough! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I read somewhere that BR class 47 had a reliability of just over 60% at one stage. In other words, of the five hundred on the books only three hundred were available for work at any one time. No self respecting railway company in the world would put up with that. (I discount the many preserved railways from that statement). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted September 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 22, 2012 My problem with the "British bad" and "country x good" argument is that having worked in engineering all of my adult life I have repeatedly seen foreign sourced hardware that was sold on the back of a golden reputation and held up in comparison with the questionable equipment supplied by UK manufacturers which turned out to be no better or even worse in practice. Indeed it is important not to look back at UK suppliers through rose tinted glasses, it is also important not to look at other suppliers through filtered vision. Working in verification and design appraisal I'm far from impressed with some of the diesel engine (I mean engine, not locomotive here) builders held up as paragons of technical virtue by many. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Latest livery details shown: http://railwayherald.com/uknews/class-68-livery-revealed Looks rather interesting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpion Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 it gets uglier with every update ..but interesting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
(The) Youth Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Nice to see the Cumbria connection Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 1, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2013 Pseudo carbon fibre cab? That finish could prove interesting to recreate in model form in 4mm and below. Cheers, Mick EDIT - 4mm and below added. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43179 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 its a Nissan Juke!- Looks like they didn't know when to stop 'styling' the cab - personally I prefer the 'plain ugly' class 70! Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Er, Mick, that is model form surely as its a model.... Nice livery, I like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Yep, that thing makes the 70 look positively attractive in comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 1, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2013 Er, Mick, that is model form surely as its a model.... Nice livery, I like that. DOH! I wonder what scale it's in. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 00 - Bachmann - 2013/14 catalogue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 its a Nissan Juke!- Looks like they didn't know when to stop 'styling' the cab - personally I prefer the 'plain ugly' class 70! Jon I think the new nickname for these could be "Warthogs". Certainly has a snout at the front...! Better looking than 70s, but only just! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I suspect the small Yellow panel is doing it no favours. It's a very sleek and modern looking loco IMHO. What happened to those anti over rider thingy's, that the 70 just had to have? Unless they're just better integrated into the bodywork, rather than just being boxes bolted on the outside? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Latest livery details shown: http://railwayherald.com/uknews/class-68-livery-revealed Looks rather interesting Hi, Now I love that, it looks brillant (yes I know I'm sucker for ugly locos! ), It sounds good as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwrq_qTaaPg Please someone do a model! Simon EDIT: to add link to youtube Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 1, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2013 00 - Bachmann - 2013/14 catalogue. As mentioned elswhere, Sud Express currently have the exclusive rights from Vossloh to produce models and have already done the 6 axle variant. I wonder if the license will be granted to a.n.other company to produce a 4mm version. or will Sud Express dip their toes in to the UK 4mm market? Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Hi, Now I love that, it looks brillant (yes I know I'm sucker for ugly locos! ), It sounds good as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwrq_qTaaPg Please someone do a model! Simon The Class 68 (UK light) appears to have a different front end from the EuroLight. Even the body sides are completely different, due to the restricted UK loading gauge, so there may be very little external similarity between the two. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HullCityB17 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Nice to see the Cumbria connectionNice livery, shame about it's face! I think they should be called Drugly. Definitely worse than the Class 70's which tbh I don't think they are as bad as first thought, even the plain green one. Maybe the Uklight Class 68 needs to be struck by a girder at both ends before it looks anything half decent - the Eurolight looks marginally better, although it looks like a duck billed platypus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I like it, livery looks good, looks very modern. I wonder if some of the other FOCs will place orders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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