EddieB Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 All the usual suspects again? Time to think a little more laterally (and I don't mean broad gauge): it's the Queen's Diamond Jubilee this year, so why not recreate one of the masterpieces of Queen Victoria's 60th celebrations of 1897? How about a LNWR replica in "diamond" livery - let's have a bit of extra artistic licence and build a Webb double single. Oh yes, and a Larmanjat monorail locomotive. Pretty please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 A Reid Atlantic would be nice, but for heritage line use, I'd settle for a J37. Simon's Thompson idea would be a good yin too! Had I a blank cheque I would give consideration to doing Great Northern in all her midnight blue, cropped cab 1945 glory. My only concession would be to give her the 1946 number in plain Gill Sans just to emphasise the no-frills nature of the loco in this form! Dave. Great idea Dave. 4470 is in some respects the exact halfway house between Gresley and Peppercorn too. Isn't an NBR Atlantic tender being restored? I must confess, I'd give cash to that project on principle. Not Scottish myself with no major links to scotland anymore, but Scottish locomotive engineering has a beauty all it's own and is very underrepresented. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 There's an Atlantic tender at Boness as you rightly mention and it's in the process of restoration. Need to build the front end of the atlantic from scratch though! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The OP asks: "Which "Re-Creation" Would Be The Biggest Crowd-Puller?" I don't think this is the most relevant question to ask. As someone said earlier, to "the man in the street" who cannot distinguish between the Flying Scotsman as either ex-LNER A3 No. 4472 or the daily 10:00am departure from Kings Cross to Edinburgh, it doesn't matter. Frankly Olton Hall in its guise as Hogwarts Castle is probably more visible and interesting to the public mind than any ghost of locomotives past. With pleasant, non-railway associations, something like this, or the Berkshire 2-8-4 from the Polar Express* would probably have more appeal to many people than another ex-LNER express locomotive. I think the relevant question is "Which re-creation would create enough donations to get something useful built?" My personal favourite (the GWR steam railmotor and trailer) is well underway with truly impressive results so far. The Saint (Lady of Legend) is another that I am personally excited about. I'm less enthusiastic about other projects like County of Glamorgan and the Patriot but they are worthwhile and I wish their projectors well. None of these will likely make much of a splash beyond the preservation / enthusiast movement and don't raise a ton of money from enthusiasts either. If the objective is something big, shiny and named, that won't offend enthusiasts (too much), will appeal to non-enthusiasts and can haul steam specials fast on the main line, then I would think a nice shiny red streamlined, Princess Coronation would fit the bill. However, since a couple of these exist, I think the money would be hard to raise. I rather see Pendennis Castle steaming again myself. * Yes I know it's American. I'm not suggesting it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 gotta be the streamlined duchess, would love to see that on the mainline, be even greater if they could use any remaining LMS coaches on the mainline, shame they are not allowed. the maroon is nice with maroon coaches, but blue with the coaches painted in the blue and silver scheme i think would look amazing on the mainline Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm amazed no-one's mentioned a Class 251 yet, given they topped the most wanted model polls for 80 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2012 A Claughton or an L&Y Dreadnought. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2012 Perhaps we're blurring the lines between the OP and wish lists here. Apparently 60163 cost ~£3,000,000, the P2 would cost nearer £5,000,000. My point is to raise that sort of money you would really have to fire a lot of peoples' imagination, or at least a few very rich people, so you would have to convince these people that it would be worthwhile, in other words it would have to indeed be a real 'crowd puller'. This would, to my mind, rule out 95% of the suggestions posted above. Another sobering thought is that given the build timescales of 60163 and the other new builds quite a few of us will be pushing up daisies long before these things are finished! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Perhaps we're blurring the lines between the OP and wish lists here. Apparently 60163 cost ~£3,000,000, the P2 would cost nearer £5,000,000. My point is to raise that sort of money you would really have to fire a lot of peoples' imagination, or at least a few very rich people, so you would have to convince these people that it would be worthwhile, in other words it would have to indeed be a real 'crowd puller'. This would, to my mind, rule out 95% of the suggestions posted above. Another sobering thought is that given the build timescales of 60163 and the other new builds quite a few of us will be pushing up daisies long before these things are finished! That's a very fair point Phil. Moreover, as I understand it, on a strict basis, money given through covenants towards Tornado cannot be redirected towards the P2 project (understandably). Therefore, whilst the funding model has been proven to some extent in the building of Tornado, effectively you would be starting again, building the numbers up (unless - as I suspect - a vast majority of existing covenators would put an equal amount a year into a new build P2). As for timescales, this is dependent wholly on the funding and the project's preparations. The standard components for which tooling already exists, and the A1 Trust owns or has access to, can be made relatively quickly if funds are available (a spare cannon box for the roller bearings already exists as a spare for Tornado, and the tender will be made as one identical to Tornado's). The first major component - which would have been built in any event as a spare for Tornado - the boiler will use the standard 118A design (with the appropriate and current modifications in place) and that cost £500,000 in 2007, and would probably cost £750,000 now (I say this based on a discussion with another covenator who took a great interest in the first boiler's construction). The significant costs and hurdles to overcome are (I feel) the driving wheels, caprotti valve gear, the re-designed pony truck and re-designed front end with three separate sets of valve gear instead of 2:1 conjugated motion, and the main frames - all components for which either tooling does not exist, or drawings because they don't exist as yet! The timescales depends on funding and design preparation, design preparation depends on funding. Chicken and egg scenario. That's why the trust is conducting the P2 Study to see if it's a viable locomotive design for the mainline in this day and age, sensible because if it's not viable, then they could move onto a different project entirely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The significant costs and hurdles to overcome are (I feel) the driving wheels, caprotti valve gear, the re-designed pony truck and re-designed front end with three separate sets of valve gear instead of 2:1 conjugated motion, and the main frames - all components for which either tooling does not exist, or drawings because they don't exist as yet! As far as I'm aware the driving wheels and pony truck are of the same design as those used on the V2 - the V2's suffered from the same pony truck problems in that the leading set of drivers were 'steering' the loco into curves, however this was later resolved after some investigation by an adjustment of springing. So hopefully the answers in that sense rest in York and in Green Arrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 gotta be the streamlined duchess, would love to see that on the mainline, Sorry disagree strongly, as Stanier was the greatest CME to walk this earth, and he was agin the 'dustbin Duchess', I'm in total agreement with his views. I would 'bin' the idea along with the P2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 if we are going for the wow factor and money no object,then why not a crosti boilerd 9f,or even the leader,modern tec would no doubt sort the issues it had as i am sure the great man him self would have if he had not retied ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 ...or the Berkshire 2-8-4 from the Polar Express... Why even a candidate for re-creation? The locomotive in the film is a pretty faithful reproduction of actively preserved Pere Marquette 2-8-4 no. 1225. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sorry disagree strongly, as Stanier was the greatest CME to walk this earth You're kidding, right? Just yesterday someone was commenting in another thread how poorly Stanier's 3MT 2-6-2Ts performed. Let's say nothing of the destruction he wrought on historic locomotives, some of which would be ideal candidates for this thread. Of course many would argue that all Stanier's greatness came from Churchward - and I carry no card for the GWR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Stanier was the greatest CME to walk this earth Objectively, I'd say Chapelon. Subjectively, I'd say Gresley. Stanier wouldn't be in my personal top ten, though neither would Bulleid to be fair. It's a very emotively charged and rarely objectively assessed statement "best CME" so for the purposes of this thread, might be better in another thread. However regarding "which recreation would be the greatest crowd puller" - it occurs to me that we have already seen the advantages of LNER recreation last May when 4492 Dominion of New Zealand (in reality, Bittern) emerged from Southall works. Since then, the garter blue engine has drawn a great crowd wherever it has gone, and no more so than when I observed it on its maiden run out of King's Cross. So arguably, if we don't take "recreation" to mean "new build" there must be plenty of scenes that could be recreated which could draw a crowd. You could also argue the GCR's travelling post office is a candidate for that, perhaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
£1.38 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 All the usual suspects again? Time to think a little more laterally (and I don't mean broad gauge): it's the Queen's Diamond Jubilee this year, so why not recreate one of the masterpieces of Queen Victoria's 60th celebrations of 1897? How about a LNWR replica in "diamond" livery - let's have a bit of extra artistic licence and build a Webb double single. A fully-working Webb compound would certainly get my vote - at last we could see just how good the best ones really were. A Teutonic would get my vote though over a Greater Britain. ... oh, and FW Webb towered over all other CMEs in my view, making allowances for his time period and allowing him the same good grace for his less successful designs that other CMEs seem to get! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes, to return to the topic, the world is poorer for France not having saved any of Chapelon's masterpieces (unless you count one of the lesser machines that may still survive in Bolivia). Yet, seeing that this is a UK thread, here are some others suggestions as to locomotives that would have an appeal outside the enthusiast fraternity: - Any Crampton locomotive (but especially LNWR 6-2-0 Liverpool), although there are preserved examples on the continent; - "Fowler's Ghost", one of the least successful ideas, so a non-starter in more ways than one; - A scaled-up Triang-Hornby Battlespace Turbo Car (are you listening, James May?). Or, if talking modifications to something existing, how about converting a "Dean Goods" to the outside-framed version? Dream on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Apart from Newbryford in post #45, no-one's run with my Class 251 suggestion yet, so here it is again: BLUE PULLMAN And from a boy's toys perspective there's only ONE contender: KESTREL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I would like to see an NBL/MAN loco, beit Class 21, 22 or 41. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Dyson (onslaught832) Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I suppose a non working replica would be quite prototypical .....mind you talking of unreliable diesel types, I would love to see a Class 22 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2012 No-one's run with my Class 251 suggestion yet, so here it is again: BLUE PULLMAN Apart from my invisble ink in post#45................... Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I suppose a non working replica would be quite prototypical .....mind you talking of unreliable diesel types, I would love to see a Class 22 Experience with recent rebuilds and new construction (narrow and standard gauge) suggests that many shortcomings in the original are due to poor workmanship or simply not following the drawings. With modern technology and a few minor tweaks, I suspect many relative failures could be made to work much more reliably and efficiently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold unravelled Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2012 For wow factor, I'd like to see The Great Bear rebuilt. As long as not too many compromises had to be made. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I don't really know what to suggest myself but as long as its not in BR black or brunswick and can get out on the mainline it will entertain the public for a year or two! Personally speaking, I don't think Tornado's appeal will never go away - it being the first new build for the British national network. It will never go away for the enthusiast at least... but in BR Brunswick, if a member of the public saw it at speed going through their station without catching the name, they wouldn't recognise it as 'that new steam engine from Top Gear'. It could be a Britannia, Bulleid or Duchess - a BR green pacific with smoke deflectors. Whilst it is great that Tornado is having livery changes to suit the enthusiasts I think its lost that wow factor for the public by being in BR green. I haven't seen it featured on the news for a good long while and even in the railway press you hear less and less about it. For a few galas its been to this year the reports have mentioned it merely as a side note with another locomotive often stealing the show. Perhaps once its in BR blue, something a little bit different, it will be back in the news and more heavily featured in the galleries of the railway magazines. It is for that reason I feel that Flying Scotsman should remain in LNER Apple Green - its a preservation flagship and is known to the public. I also feel that it was a good move to paint Bittern into garter blue - more people will take notice of it as it shoots past their regular service train! I'm not sure that anything could really live up to the initial effect of Tornado, except maybe a P2 as they were bigger and arguably more distinctive, as the tag of 'first new mainline loco in 40something years' was a major selling point, obviously no other loco could use that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2012 I would like to see an NBL/MAN loco, beit Class 21, 22 or 41. Can you afford to keep it in engine lube oil? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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