Little Didcot

[57xx]

Hi Ric,

 

Thanks for the compliment! I will try and get some pictures of the two P15s up in the next few days for you. Is there anything in particular that I can help you with? Post a picture here if needed and I and the other good folk will try and sort you out!

This is the offending wagon with a Bachmann RTR wagon on it's left and a Parkside kit on the right.

 

 

The bottom edge of the solebars seem to be higher than either of the other wagons. The left of the P15 has the floor level with the moulding on the inside of the body end, like this there is hardly any solebar visible, the bottom of which doesn't sit level with the underside of the bufferbeam and it just doesn't look right. On the right side, I unglued the floor and lifted it so the bottom edge of the buffer beam sits level with the bottom of the solebar. If the buffers were fitted they would be too high compared with the other wagons.

[Castle]

Hi Ric,

 

I seem to remember having light issues with putting the floor into the sides and then into the chassis afterwards. The arrangement of these is not immediately obvious. The ones I have built seem to be about right so I don't know what I have done differently!

 

There are a number of different ways to sort the high riding of the sole bar:

 

I seem to remember that the sole bars are added to the outside of a bit with W irons on. There doesn't seem much room to raise this higher in the frames though.

 

If you remove the bearings and use a Dremell to make the holes more slot shaped so they can sit higher in the boxes. This might be difficult to get accurate so there is a reamer tool that I have seen somewhere (cue help from others please!) that can be used to realign and change the position of bearing holes.

 

Are the wheels the right size? They look it to me but if you have a vernier gauge or similar it may pay to measure it. At a pinch, if there is a slightly smaller version available then get those so it can sit lower. Not exactly prototypical but it won't notice as it trundles past. I will dig mine out later in the week and do a Little Didcot article on them too.

 

There isn't a lot of sole bar showing on these beasties so it looks about right. See here:

 

http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/wagons/80659/80659pic_01.html

 

Any other suggestions people?

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

A dose of gritty (or ballasty) reality!

 

The unsung heroes of the railway are the permanent way crews and the equipment they used to keep the lines not only open and safe but in tip top condition. There had always been ballast wagons of one description or another on the GWR and remarkably, the GWR was the first railway in Britain to use hopper ballast wagons and plough brake vans to speed up the process of real ballasting track which was known as the Rodger's New Zealand Patent Method.

 

 

By the time the mid 1930s comes around Swindon needed to start replacing the ageing fleet and built a series of wagons to 10, 14 & 20 tons capacity. This particular design is to Dia. P15. This is a 10 ton non hopper version that has two large doors each side with small centre stanchions to aid loading and unloading of the vehicles. These were built from 1936 to lot 1215 and there were a total of 380 constructed as ballast wagons and a further 11 as sand wagons. In BR service they were allocated the telegraphic code name STARFISH but it is unknown if this was ever actually carried by any of the vehicles. Didcot is home to two of these wagons. The first is long term resident No. 80668 (which is still used for its original purpose on site) and there is a relative newcomer in the form of No. 80659 which is on long term loan from the National Railway Museum.

 

 

The Little Didcot versions of Nos. 80668 & 80659 are just straight builds of the Cambrian kits. These I found a little bit fiddle in as much as the first one I did, I got the arrangement of floor, sole bar and sides a bit off. A subtle mix of not reading the instructions properly and a brain in neutral I fear....

 

 

The paint was finest Halfords all round and transfers are courtesy of CCT. I weathered it as per the usual method and that was pretty much that! The weighting for the vehicles comes courtesy of the ballast load.

 

 

Well, there we are - a rocky road travelled.

 

I'll get my coat...

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Kev_Lewis]

Very nice wagons you have there. The ballast load and subtle weathering are particularly effective.

Is there enough suitable stock in the Didcot collection for you to assemble a full PW train on Little Didcot?

 

 A subtle mix of not reading the instructions properly and a brain in neutral I fear....

 

Instructions? What are those?

[Miss Prism]

The depth of the Cambrian P15 solebar does seem rather small. I think this is a case where builders using separate W-iron (rocking or sprung) are at an advantage, since the key dimension for those users tends to be buffer height: thus the build sequence derives from the buffer height setting, and the W-iron height is set accordingly, with springs/axleboxes stuck on later. Tension-lock users do not need functional buffer height alignment, so can use, albeit reluctantly, the kit bits as supplied.

 

Nice pics, Castle.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Miss Prism

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for the likes everyone and the kind words from Miss P. and Kev!

 

Miss P. - too true about the springing, there is a reason the same level of adjustability is built into the real thing... Lined up against a Ratio kit, my ones seem to be good enough (not totally lined up but pretty good) so we need to ascertain where the one that 57XX Ric has built differs from my ones. Any ideas? I think the sole bar is a little thin but about acceptable to my slightly fuzzy eyes! The only other way to get the buffers down will be to trim the sides off again and remove the locating strips to get the sole bar further up but as it is too small as it is, that is a bit of a non starter! Alan Gibson (and doubtless others too) do an 8 spoke 10.5mm Dia. wheelset which will drop the buffers down.

 

Kev - how does this strike you for a P-Way train?

 

Loco (No. 6697 perhaps?)

No. 290 U4 Dean 4 wheel composite in Departmental black

No. 100682 T12 Chaired sleeper wagon with load.

No. 19818 O11 4W open wagon with tool load.

No. 70335 J28 MACAW B with rail load.

No. 80659 P15 Ballast Wagon

No. 80668 P15 Ballast Wagon

No. 80789 P17 Ballast Wagon

No. 205 12 ton hand crane and runner wagon

No. 56400 AA3 TOAD brake van.

 

Should look good but are there any authenticity complaints about this anyone? Is it vaguely prototypical? I know the crane is probably a bit of a stretch but it will look sooooo great in the train... I have a thing for railway cranes in model form! I am of a mind to do the breakdown train next.

 

A series of quotes from the Little Didcot Dictionary:

 

Instructions = the manufacturers opinion on how things should go together.

OR

Instructions = paper supplied for mopping up spillages incurred while constructing your kit.

OR

Instructions = a handy coaster type arrangement to stop those nasty tea mug rings on your nice clean (!) workbench.

OR

Instructions = the thing you fold up to wedge under your workbench leg to stop it wobbling.

OR

Instructions = the last resort, when all else fails.

OR

Instructions = what to read if your P15 ballast wagon starts to look more like a very distressed Hawksworth full brake.

 

Here ends the lesson for today...

 

All the best,

 

Castle

Edited February 5, 2013 by Castle

[Kev_Lewis]

Kev - how does this strike you for a P-Way train?

 

Loco (No. 6697 perhaps?)

No. 290 U4 Dean 4 wheel composite in Departmental black

No. 100682 T12 Chaired sleeper wagon with load.

No. 19818 O11 4W open wagon with tool load.

No. 70335 J28 MACAW B with rail load.

No. 80659 P15 Ballast Wagon

No. 80668 P15 Ballast Wagon

No. 80789 P17 Ballast Wagon

No. 205 12 ton hand crane and runner wagon

No. 56400 AA3 TOAD brake van.

 

Should look good but are there any authenticity complaints about this anyone? Is it vaguely prototypical? I know the crane is probably a bit of a stretch but it will look sooooo great in the train... I have a thing for railway cranes in model form! I am of a mind to do the breakdown train next.

 

While this is definitely not my area of expertise, that is a nice selection of wagons for a PW train.

 

A series of quotes from the Little Didcot Dictionary:

 

Instructions = the manufacturers opinion on how things should go together.

OR

Instructions = paper supplied for mopping up spillages incurred while constructing your kit.

OR

Instructions = a handy coaster type arrangement to stop those nasty tea mug rings on your nice clean (!) workbench.

OR

Instructions = the thing you fold up to wedge under your workbench leg to stop it wobbling.

OR

Instructions = the last resort, when all else fails.

OR

Instructions = what to read if your P15 ballast wagon starts to look more like a very distressed Hawksworth full brake.

 

Ha! Excellent. Very, very true. I may have to print these out and put them up by my workbench.

[MJI]

I much prefered the Lotus Calton.

And my favourite hot hatch between

[M.I.B]

I feel the wheels on that unpainted ballast wagon are a tad too large.  This may be the reason for it's high "stance".

 

An as for Lotus Carlton - not a chance against the Carlton which Lotus built for us for use out of Berlin in the late 80s..... (cue "shred you afterwards" speech)  Perhaps I might spill the beans in 2035 now that the Cold War is over........  I went through a Police speed trap at 140 at about 3 am one morning and they couldn't catch me!

 

The there's the Audi Quattro story, but all of these are better saved for a car forum - Lets get back to GWR/WR rail please.

[57xx]

I seem to remember that the sole bars are added to the outside of a bit with W irons on. There doesn't seem much room to raise this higher in the frames though.

 

If you remove the bearings and use a Dremell to make the holes more slot shaped so they can sit higher in the boxes. This might be difficult to get accurate so there is a reamer tool that I have seen somewhere (cue help from others please!) that can be used to realign and change the position of bearing holes.

 

Are the wheels the right size? They look it to me but if you have a vernier gauge or similar it may pay to measure it. At a pinch, if there is a slightly smaller version available then get those so it can sit lower. Not exactly prototypical but it won't notice as it trundles past. I will dig mine out later in the week and do a Little Didcot article on them too.

That is correct on how the solebars and W irons assemble. They are located with a central lug on the back of the solebar and there isn't really any adjustment available. I've already had to remove most of the spring hanger detail off the solebar moulding to enable the W irons to sit anywhere near level. I part think the problem is with the dimensions of the W irons/location of the bearing. The other part being the location of the floor on the body ends.

 

The wheels are the correct size (if a fraction under), 12mm for the 3' 1" of the prototype.

 

I think I'll just build this one up with the underframe as-is and fit the body properly (not as per the instructions) so the buffer beams sit correctly w.r.t. the solebars and see how it all looks when complete. The buffers will probably sit too high, but this might be disguisable with the other wagons that will be in the rake.

 

Loco (No. 6697 perhaps?)

No. 290 U4 Dean 4 wheel composite in Departmental black

No. 100682 T12 Chaired sleeper wagon with load.

No. 19818 O11 4W open wagon with tool load.

No. 70335 J28 MACAW B with rail load.

No. 80659 P15 Ballast Wagon

No. 80668 P15 Ballast Wagon

No. 80789 P17 Ballast Wagon

No. 205 12 ton hand crane and runner wagon

No. 56400 AA3 TOAD brake van.

 

Should look good but are there any authenticity complaints about this anyone? Is it vaguely prototypical? I know the crane is probably a bit of a stretch but it will look sooooo great in the train... I have a thing for railway cranes in model form! I am of a mind to do the breakdown train next.

My P15s are for a similar permanent way train. Mine is to be composed of (in no particular order):

 

2 x P15 ballast wagons

1 x T12 sleeper wagon

1 x CC7 tool van

1 x 6 ton crane + match truck

1 x AA6 P-way brake van.

 

Similarly, I have no idea of authenticity and will now probably pinch the Macaw idea too. Given that 2/3 of the above are Cambrian kits, I'm not really looking forward to assembling them! The two other kits of theirs I have made have also been a pain (LMS & LNER 5 plank opens). The moulds seem well past their sell by date, leaving the parts full of flash and mis-alignment.

[Castle]

Hi Ric,

 

You are more than welcome to the MACAW 'idea' the J28 at Didcot is displayed as such so anyone that visits can have the same idea! The T12 is a nice kit that I enjoyed doing - the worst bit about it was filling the thing with sleepers! I am going to start wit the Cambrian 6 ton crane and the Brassmasters L4 runner wagon and see where it gets me. I am going to start the P17 with a GRAMPUS!

 

The 12mm wheels on the wagon are the right size but it may pay to not reshape the body and re wheel it - a LOT less work... What are the sources for the CC7 and the AA6? Might I also press you to doing a Ratio 4 wheeler coach in departmental black or crimson?

 

You are on my tour of 81E I am doing on the 28th July so I'll show you the real things!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

Edited February 6, 2013 by Castle

[57xx]

There shouldn't be any body reworking needed, just making the floor sit at a different level. I've separated the floor/chassis from the body and just need to re-glue them. I'm finishing another wagon first to get me back in the zone.

The AA6 is the Frogmore Confederacy kit, purchased already and the CC7 is from Falcon Brassworks. Well, it will be if/when they go on resale. I may need the Dean 4 wheeler as a back up plan.

 

Looking forward to the visit and getting a good look at the prototypes.

 

cheers

Ric

Edited February 8, 2013 by 57xx

[Castle]

Hi Ric,

 

There are lots of potential tool vans out there. Roger Slade at CSP does the GWR tool and mess vans as some very nice looking etched kits. I have them but haven't built them yet. They are sold as a pair, Tool van and mess van. Didcot has this nice little beastie which is a conversion of a V12 Mink:

 

http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/wagons/82917/82917.html

 

There were a number of conversions like this based on various breeds of MINK, iron and otherwise as I am sure you know. You could have a kit bash with Parkside's MINK D - there is a drawing in A History of GWR Goods Wagons Vol. 2 in case you don't own a copy.

 

Another conversion that lives at 81E is this one based on an AA2 brake van - this is a BR one from 1952 but There are of course others such as the AA6 you already have listed and some AA16s too:

 

http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/wagons/263/263.html

 

The Dean 4 wheel coach a good idea as it means you get to run all sorts of out of period oddities... No matter what you do, make sure it gets posted - we would all like to see it I am sure!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

Taking (or making)steps...

 

Well, enough with the bad puns and on with the brass and white metal! The next job I tackled was to look at the steps that live on the on the sole bar. These were dutifully cut out and shaped from the brass chassis fret as per the drawings supplied in the kit. They were then soldered in place carefully.

 

 

After cutting to length, the roof is made to fit by nibbling away at the mounting rebate on the edge until it all goes together. My policy here, as you can see, is to put tape on the roof and then mark out in pencil on this the positions of the various fittings and bits and pieces. The tape also helps the drill get a first bite into the aluminium too so it is dual purpose.

 

 

I drill the holes to be as tight a fit as possible, carefully measuring the roof vents and so on to get a precise push in fit and then secured with a dab of cyanoacrylate glue on the back. I like to use Frogmore Confederacy etched handrails wherever possible rather than the wire provided as I like the fact that it gives the mounting flanges at each end and I am also chronically lazy in this regard - if there is a relatively inexpensive better alternative then why not?

 

 

Then it is time for a few details. The under frame first. I have replaced the Comet castings with a few from Frogmore again as I really like the look of both their vacuum cylinders with the attendant hoses and the dynamo with all the wires and tensioning gear. Then a few etched and brass wire brake bits and a bit of scrap etch for the dynamo belt and away we go! I started by using the white metal Comet battery boxes too...

 

 

...but I found some Frogmore etched ones that went on very nicely too!

 

 

The end that is destined to become the outer end of my boat train rake was selected as the end of the coach that has all the handrails and steps on - better that it look a little bit more 'technical' I feel. Purely an aesthetic notion but there we are. As this end isn't connecting up to another coach, the white metal gangway was used as was the end plate from the coach super detail etch. A regular, common or garden screw link type coupling was also applied.

 

 

At the other end, my first foray into working gangways and coach type coupling was attempted. After a bit of research, I decided that I really liked the prototypical look given with the use of the Bill Bedford style lost wax brass castings that incorporates the hoses et al in one mass. I did cut the pin off and mount the replacement screw as far back as possible with a dab of solder in order to get the maximum radius cornering possible. I also reshaped the bolt end to allow for maximum travel left and right.

 

 

The corridor connection shown is a first attempt and utilises the card and etched piece from a dart castings working gangway and the white metal base of the Comet corridor connection. After a few experiments with an 'S' bend of Hornby 4th radius 1/8 curves - which should be smaller than the minimum radii on Peco code 75 point work - it was found that coupling this to another brass coach via the Bedford unit meant that a set of the folds had to be taken out. The 'spring' effect of the two corridor connections pressing together was too much and caused the two end plate etches to slide past each other and tip over one of the coaches.

 

Hinges, door bangs and handles of various sorts were also added in abundance on the sides too. You can also see one of the strips that has been fixed to the top in order to represent the Collett style gutters thus putting my model more firmly in the K41 camp! Eileen's to the rescue here!

 

 

A final overview before dismantling, a light grit blasting and a bit of primer and filler.

 

 

Then we have to talk liveries - a serving of blood & custard! In discussion with my friends in the C&W works, the thought is that such a vehicle used on prestigious workings such as these would have had, in preference, the latest colour scheme of the day. I don't know if No. 111 itself had B&C at all but it is legitimate for the type so that is good enough for me. As I have said before, its the preservationists attitude to paint schemes here! I have had to put this job off due to the foul weather in my spray booth (!) so the next coach has already found its way onto my bench. The experiments with the couplings and gangways has also lead me to revising the corridor and buffing arrangements on my Siphon G too so, as ever, I am not short of work. I will post a write up of Little No. 2796 as soon as this work is done.

 

Next stop - the Super Saloons!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[gwrrob]

Fabulous work there Castle and great to see the Frogmore bits being used.I've never used their battery boxes but they look the part.Look forward to seeing it painted.

[Castle]

Hi Rob,

 

The do some lovely bits and I liked the etched battery boxes because the handles on them matched the handles I had used on the rest of the coach. A nice little bit of continuity that I will probably be the only one to ever notice but as I model for me, I know its there!

 

Thanks to all that have pushed the like button!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Kev_Lewis]

Great work there, Castle.

 

I'd go with crimson and cream for the BG too.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Kev_Lewis

[M.I.B]

Very impressive.

Thank you.

[Mallard60022]

Little beauty there mate. The 'extra touches' make so much difference.

P

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

Hell's bells and buckets of blood (and custard).

 

Just a short update tonight to show that I am still alive and kicking and that the full brake is still moving in the right direction. This time into the paint shop. The black, roof grey, and blood and custard are on but there is still a bit of work to do on the body. There are one or two areas to touch up and the ends need masking up and painting black. There is also the small matter of an interior and having had a nose around the real thing, this really is a small matter! Not a lot to model at all really.

 

 

I have also painted my long suffering model of Autotrailer No. 190 and added the transfers to it too. I still have to finish painting the interior, hand the posters and photographs and detail the cab and guard / passenger doors with all the various bit inside and glaze it. Then it's painting people time - grrrrr!

 

I will end with a question - what do people out there do for the bars on the windows of luggage compartments? Is there an etching out there I haven't found or an etched fence that people are using at all? I have thought about scribing the back of these and filling the lines with paint but I would rather fit a proper etch or whatever. Over to the RMWEB gurus!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Miss Prism]

Yes, there is an etching out there, Castle. Hang on a mo. Brain-scratching time.

[mozzer models]

247 developments has some

[buffalo]

Is this the right pattern?

 

Nick

 

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

Miss P., Mozzer & Buffalo - thanks for the help thus far!

 

Nick - I didn't reckon on there being different types (stupidly!) - I need ones for a Hawksworth and a Collett Autocoach and a K41 full brake so for some I guess they are right. Are the Blacksmith ones still available at all?

 

Mozzer - do you have a picture of some of the 247 ones (even ones fitted to a coach) please as their website doesn't show anything?

 

Thanks again everyone!

 

Castle

[buffalo]

Blacksmith stuff is gradually reappearing from CooperCraft. It looks like you're in luck with this one.

 

There is a plastic sheet with a diagonal lattice pattern from MainlyTrains MT173 labelled 'Hawksworth Brake Compo'. A bit cruder than an etch and I'm not sure exactly what it is meant for.

 

Nick